Cactus Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Don't be so harsh on eldar land Tanhausen, it's a nice place to visit. I'm very happy with our current codex, and with this edition of 40k overall. There's enough variety of units and wargear options to play the same army with small tweaks or a lot of different armies. Every unit feels like it has a purpose but there's always another unit that can serve the same function, so nothing is an automatic pick for every game*. The 1st and 2nd companies have been fleshed out, both in the background and on the tabletop, with new units and special rules that make them clearly different and slighter better than their counterparts in other chapters. The background section overall (hey guys, there's a load of pages at the front with no rules or army lists on them!) is more cohesive and mysterious than it has ever been. I'm disappointed that the aircraft don't quite pack the punch their cost suggests they should, but then I'm also disappointed that aircraft have been added to the game in such a clunky fashion so I probably wouldn't be using them anyway! It feels like playing 2nd edition but everything is better balanced and the rules are more streamlined. *Except maybe my contemptor-mortis, but that's a whole different issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marvmoogy Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 I was being a little tongue in cheek with my comment, guys....but I suppose there is a certain logic there somewhere.....? Getting back on topic, I love the 'dex. I love the fluff around our chapter and, as I am not a competitive player, I will use our 'dex whenever I play. I'll more than likely pick up a C:SM codex though as I do like reading the different fluffs. If it is a lot more powerful and i do end up in a tourney, then I may well take the C:SM 'dex, but this isn't very likely. I'm a son of the Lion at heart and will be loyal to the last Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 As I said earlier I quite like having a broader Dex than previously, however... We do have some BIG holes in our competative options and I am thankful that 6th Ed has given us a way to patch them. I am not a WAAC player but sometimes I find it is neccessary to step up. Some of my opponents are damned competative and I'm looking forward to a new C:SM book for allies in bigger games vs them, it just doesn't seem right to ally with BA/SW/GK or BT. My allies may be painted as an Unforgiven successor just for good measure. My last few games vs Tau were very one sided; I just won one by hiding Azzy and a single DW holding the 'relic' inside a LR once I'd killed his anti AV14 weapons, he tabled me apart from them. Other games involve me taking handfuls of marines off each turn until I just shake hands and give him the table. I love that there is a reasonable amount of internal balance in our dex which allows several 'good' builds, but I really don't think we needed to have the latest FAQ nerfing. New Xenos dexes are better, most 5th Ed dexes are better. We can stand up to C:CSM because we hate them but struggle against other dexes. Are we really that shallow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gratan Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 My problem is the fact that Cyclone Missile Launchers can still be given to Terminators with TH/SS... I refuse to do so... But the fact it is still an option and so many people do it really pisses me off... Other than little things like the Nephilim not really able to fulfill its designated role very well, I love the Codex. But we'll see how it stands after C:SM comes out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffJedi Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 My problem is the fact that Cyclone Missile Launchers can still be given to Terminators with TH/SS... I refuse to do so... But the fact it is still an option and so many people do it really pisses me off... Why? It's a valid option and there was even a pic in the last codex with Lightning Claws and a Cyclone in the same model, proving that it was not a mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Sergeant Bohemond Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 It is a good option to take on the Terminators! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Sheol Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 DA are the only ones (maybe SW can do it too) that can take CML on TH/SS or LCs terminators... This is a peculiar opions we have since 4rd edition codex... it was intendedby JJ himself to give a different flavour to DW... If it's our privilege to have such an option (like now having PC on DW) i use this option with pleasure... I am really happy with what we had new in this codex... i was at first moment unhappy about flyers but after trying them and seeing how the flyers for tau and eldar are (more similar to us than to 5th edition ones) i think that when all the 5th edition flyer will be redone ours will be in line and we will be able to play them at amximum potential... i am still not sold on LSV too points for a bigger speeder (this means easier target) that has a main weapon that can destroy it more easily than enemy's fire or on the BoC (I1 on a model that is meant to go in challenge with enemy's characters is totally wrong IMHO)... What i fear is that Hasbro marines will steal usa again part of of our codex and qill get again better versions of our equipment and we will feel robbed again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Avoghai Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 My problem is the fact that Cyclone Missile Launchers can still be given to Terminators with TH/SS... I refuse to do so... But the fact it is still an option and so many people do it really pisses me off... Other than little things like the Nephilim not really able to fulfill its designated role very well, I love the Codex. But we'll see how it stands after C:SM comes out... This is actually one of the DA features that makes us different from vanilla and justifies that we have a different codex. On the general topic.,. Problem is that we have, like other chapter-specific codex, a specialized codex whereas vanilla, CSM, eldar or orks have multifunction codex to allow players to play the theme army they want. DA army is already a theme army hence limitated in term of options. Be sure that if GW decide to release a codex World Eaters or Saim hann , you'll see people moaning about how powerful/more options, the generic codex has.. (I'm talking here of a REAL codex, not the things with just 2 squares of wargear like they did for Iyanden or Farsight) So yes, surely the SM codex will contains more options but it's how the hobby works. BA and SW have the same problem as us. At least we can be happy that we have a codex that allows us to field various army lists. Maybe they're not powerful but at least we can build them, contrary to our 4th edition codex where we always used to have 15pts more or 20pts missing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shabbadoo Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Overall I am pleased, but it really is a shame that two of the new model kits, the flier and giant land speeder, are lackluster rules-wise. I dread to think how much outrage we'll see from all of the non-vanilla marine players once C: SM 6E comes out and we see all of the stuff they will be getting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Space Marines may get more options than DA, but they don't get the awesome Ravenwing and superior Terminators. It's a little silly to expect to get superior bikers and Terminators and get all the stuff Marines get. You can't have EVERYTHING. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adper Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Space Marines may get more options than DA, but they don't get the awesome Ravenwing and superior Terminators. It's a little silly to expect to get superior bikers and Terminators and get all the stuff Marines get. You can't have EVERYTHING. I agree with Captain Idaho on this, You can't have everything and nor would I want to. It takes the fun and challenge out of the game, and I would never find playing an army that can wipe out its opponent in 3 turns "fun to play" *cough* Tau. I think our codex is well balanced, it gives us plenty of option, and nothing stands out as overly OP. Can it hold up to some of the other codex's? well that can be debated. Of course I would like to see changes to our flyers and, LS Vengence and some other units to see them become more useful. Even without those changes I still feel are army can be effective, it just takes a little more work then some other armies. And like people stated before there is always the option of allies to help strengthen our weak areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother dean Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 I dont WANT Thunderwolves... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 I have played a few games against eldar (about 5 so far) and won all of them, although none where playing wave serpent spam (I think) Not to derail the topic, but I really think the secret is to out range them with Whirlwinds and Dakka banner. We can do that quite well, and most of the high volume of fire we can put out wounds Eldar fairly easily. Except Wraithguard. Those are a pain. _______ Back on the topic of new toys, wouldn't a Gun that makes gravity higher, and therefor harder to move in, be perfect for the Unforgiven's hunt? maybe to stop the fallen from running away so fast? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother dean Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Back on the topic of new toys, wouldn't a Gun that makes gravity higher, and therefor harder to move in, be perfect for the Unforgiven's hunt? maybe to stop the fallen from running away so fast? Would that be similiar to a propriatary Stasis tech that slows down the fallen and disorients them enough to slow their close combat effectiveness and making it easier to capture them? We've already got that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Back on the topic of new toys, wouldn't a Gun that makes gravity higher, and therefor harder to move in, be perfect for the Unforgiven's hunt? maybe to stop the fallen from running away so fast? Would that be similiar to a propriatary Stasis tech that slows down the fallen and disorients them enough to slow their close combat effectiveness and making it easier to capture them? We've already got that.... good point brother D @-@ I forgot about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother dean Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 No Worries... We all get caught up in the wishlisting and forget that our book can do most of the things, they are just called by another name.... I say I dont want Thunderwolves but I've been sitting here comparing BKs to TWs in my mind and the difference is an attack or two from the wolf and weapons choices.... And we get TL Plasma... I guess we did get Thunderwolves.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerociousBeast Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Dark Angels is a good codex. There are some issues with anti-air and some lackluster units here and there, but by and large C: DA is what all codexes should be. If the dex is uncompetitive right now, it's not because it is too weak, it's that the other codexes are too strong. Hellturkey, Wave Serpent spam, Riptide's Uberceptor, Necron Flying Circus, these are all elements that are too powerful and take their dexes over the top. While often being unfluffy at the same time. So I don't really blame our codex for not having broken units. I blame the other codexes for having broken units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disruptor_fe404 Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Space Marines may get more options than DA, but they don't get the awesome Ravenwing and superior Terminators. It's a little silly to expect to get superior bikers and Terminators and get all the stuff Marines get. You can't have EVERYTHING. And if you do want everything, you can Ally it in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onisuzume Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 Depends on what STC goodies they get in the upcoming C:SMurfs. Because really, if they do get good-priced anti-air vehicles, I'll be a bit grumpy. Really, the way the rumours currently sound, it looks like we'll be getting the bad end of the stick yet again. Anyhow, as always; Virtus in Extremis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrahawk Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 Rumour has it that the Stalker is 70 pts. Unlike in 5th Edition though, I will refrain from getting worked up about the state of things, and just ally in everything I want. With the exception of our 1st and 2nd companies, we are a Codex adharent Chapter. As such I see no reason not to use standard Codex equipment. And everything will be painted in Dark Angel colours, since I know my gaming group doesn't mind. Just need to be clear before the game which unit uses which 'dex. Yeah, I'm having my cake and eating it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 Assault Squads are one of the worst unit choices in our Codex. Their only real use is drop pod triple flamer. Couldn't agree less. Not that there are a lot of bad choices in our codex. But ten jumpers with dual flamers and meltabombs cost about the same as a built ten man tactical squad. In exchange for not being scoring, they get speed and more melee swings. Great for locking up enemy heavy weapons squads, threatening flanks, frying cover-huggers, and contesting distant objectives. Were they a good choice at 25 points per model? Not on your life. But at 2/3 their old cost, they're priced appropriately and extremely fun. More importantly, they give you the tactical flexibility that tactical squads don't. You shoot your flexibility wad on tactical squads in the list design and deployment phases. After that, they're actually pretty inflexible. They're capable of being "good enough" at anything you want them to do at army list writing time, but once the fecal matter impacts the rotary air impeller, if they're not in exactly the right place at the right time (the "right time" being deployment), they're amazingly crappy. Between 12+D6" movement and the ability to deepstrike, assault marines are your true "flex units." They can get across the board, be it laterally or into enemy territory, in a hurry, and, except for heavy weapons, they're basically as capable as tactical squads when they get where they're going, with one notable exception. In theory, they have up to five attacks per model on the charge. Granted, they're not power weapon attacks, but they're the dakkapole of melee. Throw enough dice at a problem, and it's solved! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Avoghai Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 2. Too much emphasis on RW/DW. Tac squads, Assault squads, Scouts, Chaplains and Company Masters changed very little and are once again going to be an edition behind Vanilla Marines. DA is really just a Bike and Terminator army. . Moreover, our green marines are not less effective than their UM pendants... They have the exact same wargear, tactical squads can take HW or SW when they are 5... And the assault squad... One day, one of you will have to explain me what is the problem with those... They are the exact same as vanilla one and when I read you I feel that our assault squads are worse! For the next three weeks. Then in September, just like 5th edition, a new C:SM will drop difining a new standard of what a Tactical Squad, Assault Squad, etc is and power armor DA will be an edition behind. Remember waiting years for Dev squads to get a Signum, Razorbacks to have Las/Plas, Dreadnoughts to have quad autocannon (a pattern that Dark Angels invented!!) etc? It's going to be like that all over again. There will be two tiers of "standard" Space Marine units: Dark Angels, and C:SM. The bread and butter units of the Chapter (the ones who do most of the fighting) will just plain be worse... i.e. Transports, Tac Squads, Masters, Company Vets and Scouts simply having fewer rules and wargear options but with no benefit. Blood Angels will get the new updates because their codex will be after C:SM, and will fall in line with the new standard of what a Space Marine army is. Assault Squads are one of the worst unit choices in our Codex. Their only real use is drop pod triple flamer. I disagree on 2 points. Yes the vanilla tactical squads will surely be updated with the new points costs and the special OR heavy options. But bar from grav guns that we don't know neither the effects nor the price, what do you think they will get? So not so many differences... Same thing with assault squad : I REALLY doubt that GW will give the melta guns because it will makes a too obvious choice for everybody. So finally how do you imagine they could be so different from ours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerociousBeast Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 What are Codex SM getting that we don't have already? Centurions, graviton guns, Sternguard, Vanguard, Razorback variants, AA tanks. With the exception of the latter two, I'm not bothered about any of that stuff. The farther Centurions stay away from my army the better; grav guns are kinda meh in my opinion; we shouldn't have Stern/Vanguard, period. The AA tank is something we could have really used, and that one is a shame. In my opinion, if a model is something that GW will add in our next codex, it should be added immediately. But they'll never do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother dean Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 What are Codex SM getting that we don't have already? Centurions, graviton guns, Sternguard, Vanguard, Razorback variants, AA tanks. With the exception of the latter two, I'm not bothered about any of that stuff. The farther Centurions stay away from my army the better; grav guns are kinda meh in my opinion; we shouldn't have Stern/Vanguard, period. The AA tank is something we could have really used, and that one is a shame. In my opinion, if a model is something that GW will add in our next codex, it should be added immediately. But they'll never do that. We already have Stern/Vanguard... My Sternguard have TDA and my Vanguard are on bikes... The picture that has surfaced of the Centurions with breaching drills is just ugly and I can see where the Chaos Obliterators started from.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facmanpob Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 The AA tank is something we could have really used, and that one is a shame. In my opinion, if a model is something that GW will add in our next codex, it should be added immediately. But they'll never do that.You never know though, with the advent of digital codexes, they may just retro things in to the digital codex, and add it as a FAQ entry for the hardcopy codex..... they did the same thing with the Storm Talon last year in Codex:SM. Whilst I'm not holding my breath for it to happen, there is a possibility.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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