Are you happy with your DA codex?

[FerociousBeast]

Once can certainly hope! But you know what they say about hope...

[Master Sheol]

if we need AA tank we already have FW WW hyperios that looks a thousand times better than the stalker... i have one and when i play against my friend necron army (i know he uses 4 night scythes)  i take a hyperios and 1 full missile devastator squad with AA missiles... enough to deal with 4 flyers that dont come all the same turn...

[elphilo]

if we need AA tank we already have FW WW hyperios that looks a thousand times better than the stalker... i have one and when i play against my friend necron army (i know he uses 4 night scythes)  i take a hyperios and 1 full missile devastator squad with AA missiles... enough to deal with 4 flyers that dont come all the same turn...

While forgeworld does have some juicy AA options for us. And I hate to bring this up because it will derail into a huge FW argument. But not everyone's gaming group likes to play with forgeworld. So my hope is we get that AA rhino from SM FAQed into our codex. Will it? All signs point to no. But as was said we can hope.

 

But those centurions. I take back my previous statement. If they look that bad in person, the Ultramarines can keep them.

[Master Avoghai]

What are Codex SM getting that we don't have already? Centurions, graviton guns, Sternguard, Vanguard, Razorback variants, AA tanks. With the exception of the latter two, I'm not bothered about any of that stuff. The farther Centurions stay away from my army the better; grav guns are kinda meh in my opinion; we shouldn't have Stern/Vanguard, period.

The AA tank is something we could have really used, and that one is a shame. In my opinion, if a model is something that GW will add in our next codex, it should be added immediately. But they'll never do that.

Yeah but I was arguing about the fact that our assault squads or tactical squads will be inferior to the vanilla ones and the fact our assault squads are "the worst choice of the codex". Even with the grav gun options, I doubt that the assault squads will be superior to ours. I don't think that GW will give the melta option as well. And by the way, SM will get something that makes their squads a little less powerful than they are now : drop pods will get the exact same transport capacity as the other codex : 10 instead of 12. So no more squad splitting with an IC in the drop pod...

[Master Sheol]

the only things i would steal from vanilla dex are the grav weapons (they look interesting to me) and some veichles (ironclad dreads, thunderfire, AA rhino, SR)...

it's good to me that we dont have sternguard and vandguard... our sternguard is covets that even if they lack the special ammo they have a wider range of options including HtH ones... our vanguard is the BK that IMHO are superior to vanguard... in addition we have DWK that are a unit that vanilla can only dream about...

 

We can hope in a FAQ that give us grav guns (in the end we will have access to the same tactical box that vanilla will have) and maybe SR too (but i guess that will remain out from our dex...

 

About FW... i know that some gaming groups are not happy about FW units... i hope that people will start tyo understand that FW units are not overpowered and that they add more spice to the game...

 

I rather like to see an army with FW addittions that Always using allies... I think that allies are good for narrative games and campaigns but it's silly to Always see allied armies to overcome limitations in codices or to exploit some cheesy trick...

 

It seems to me that the vanilal dex will not be so overpowered compared to DA one... maybe being before SM this time will not be a ugly thing like in the past (it happened just one time btw)...

[Captain Idaho]

Certainly it looks like Terminators will be superior in a Deathwing colour scheme than Space Marines, who I doubt will ever see a squad on the table considering these releases!

[march10k]

 I doubt that the assault squads will be superior to ours. I don't think that GW will give the melta option as well.

 

Hell, I wouldn't be surprised to see them denied even the flamer option...imagine the outcry!  But if they want jumpers with upgrades, that's what vanguard are for.

[Aradiel]

i really have no big problems with the codex. it has decent balance internal balace (in my personal opinion). sure, they really should upgrade the jetfighter to be a more efective air superiority fighter (as they describe it), bump the missiles to S7 to be in level with normal flakk missiles, or lower its cost.

 

if anything im extreamly happy we managed to avoid having such concept and execution abominations in the codex like the helldrakes, fiends, and the thunder wolves (those in particular gave me the urge to tear my eyes out) . and please, pretty please with sugar on top, keep the centurions away from the codex

[captain Angel]

I love our codex. I feel that that every unit in the army can be used competitively, some just more than others.

 

The only thing I would change is make the missiles strength 7 or 8 on our jet fighter. Otherwise I am extremely happy.

[Onisuzume]

Once can certainly hope! But you know what they say about hope...

"A man who has nothing can still have..."

Oh wait, that was faith, not hope...

if we need AA tank we already have FW WW hyperios that looks a thousand times better than the stalker... i have one and when i play against my friend necron army (i know he uses 4 night scythes) i take a hyperios and 1 full missile devastator squad with AA missiles... enough to deal with 4 flyers that dont come all the same turn...

Hm... true, but сталкер comes with autocannons, right? I like autocannons.

Then again, we got the mortis from FW as well.

[Master Sheol]

Do you like autocannons??? dread mortis or contemptor mortis is th way... in particular the mortis conmtemptor can upgrade to ciclone missile launcer too so you can shoot 2 krak missile (S8 AP3) and 4 twin linked autocannonn shoots (S7 AP4) to an enemy plane... enough to wreck it to pieces...

God Bless FW... ;)

[DA player]

I may not have won many games with my non-mech, pure Deathwing list, but the feeling you get from putting 25+ Terminators on the table is truly unique.

i agree though i only have 21.

[shortysl]

I love my Codex; it makes me a Dark Angel and that's all I need. We're prosecuting a crusade that may be impossible to complete for Throne's sake! A few less than perfect units in our Codex is hardly an obstacle.

[Prot]

I fear the loss of Greenwing. While Deathwing/Ravenwing will (seemingly) continue to be unique I have no idea if Greenwing will still be worth it.

 

After all GW look to move a bunch of new unit box sets, like the tacticals, etc. Until I know the point values of these units, it really doesn't mean much to me. In the end it's all about what you get for the points.

 

If Dark Angels turn out to have the worst troop type in Greenwing (compared to the new C:SM) I could see people departing.

 

Am I happy with the codex? From a fluff standpoint, absolutely. From a competitve standpoint, I'd give it a 5 out of 10. Unfortunately the last few releases have been what I would consider above a 5/10 score.

 

The Nephi-fail is easily the most disappointing unit in the codex. At best it is an overpriced, strafing pill box. At worst it does not keep pace with any other flyer in the game points wise, nor armament wise. I've used it considerably as an anti-flyer unit and it only has one reliable weapon for that. So I tore it off and went with over priced pill box until I couldn't justify it anymore.

 

Great model and the background on this unit is fantastic, and interesting. But the rules do not reflect the amazing background of this unit at all.

 

With one FAQ the Baledrake went from 'pretty good' to 'great'. Why can't GW FAQ the Nephilim into a state of being semi-useful?

 

But overall the codex is very thematic and the fiction/art was worth the price for me? Is it competitive? I haven't seen anyone do much with it on a national level yet. (This doesn't mean it can't compete, I guess this just means I haven't heard of it competing yet.)

[Master Sheol]

I dont think Greenwing will be worst than codex marines...

They codex marines will have teh same point costs, stats and options we have with the only addition of graviton guns...

But we DA have access to the same boxed sets for tactical squads so it could happen that a FAQ could grant us access to graviton weapons too...

Codex marines will have different special rules and that's all...

This time i am more confident that we would not be nerfed by codex marines...

4th edition codex is an isolated thing cause GW changed suddenly the way to desing the dexes soon after they released eldar, DA and CSM due to complaints by players... now i dont see too much complanings about DA so GW is not gonna change his mind... in fact we had a FAQ that nerfed the PFG and made a mistake about DW sgts gear but they boosted the RWCS and they gave a needed bolt pistol to poor asmodai...

i hope that in next FAQs they fix some other issues about our codex too...

I cant see a bad future for DA nowadays...

[Prot]

Well I think what you're saying sounds certainly plausible but once we see what Sternguard, vanguard, the new tanks, and those 'loyalist obliterators' do, you might change your mind. Also we don't know anything about the flyers yet.. or do we?

 

I don't mean to be negative, but I jumped in with my Dark Angel army, and as stupid as this sounds I was greatly attracted to the Nephilim so yea, I whine about it too much.  I'd kill for an FAQ that fixed it.

 

As far as unique rules I'm hearing that there will be chapter tactics. I doubt this will take anything away from the Dark Angels codex, but it will be interesting to see how many people leave D.A. for those greener pastures.

[Interrogator Stobz]

   "I'd kill for an FAQ that fixed it." Who do we start with? I'm ready ;)

[Syphid]

What are Codex SM getting that we don't have already? Centurions, graviton guns, Sternguard, Vanguard, Razorback variants, AA tanks. With the exception of the latter two, I'm not bothered about any of that stuff. The farther Centurions stay away from my army the better; grav guns are kinda meh in my opinion; we shouldn't have Stern/Vanguard, period.

 

The AA tank is something we could have really used, and that one is a shame. In my opinion, if a model is something that GW will add in our next codex, it should be added immediately. But they'll never do that.

 

 

This how I look at it:

 

If Dark Angels are just supposed to be Vanilla Maries with a Special 1st and 2nd company then that's fine, but that means that greenwing should actually be the same as any other standard battle company.  I don't mean fancy toys like Thunderfire Cannons or Ironclad dreads, but the standard SM squads and vehicles should be the same.  If my Codex has a unit entry for "Tactical Squad" or "Assault Squad" and I go to GW and pull a box of the unit off the shelf, I should be able to use all of the options that come in that box.  When Assault Squads come with Storm Shields I can't use in my Assault Squad (unlike C:SM, BA and SW), or Tactical Squads come with Grav guns and pistols that I can't use, then that's bull pockey.  It would be like if they repackaged the Terminator Box to include Plasma Cannons when they released the DA dex, increased the price, and then never gave other armies the ability to use plasma cannon terminators.

[Syphid]

I disagree on 2 points.

 

Yes the vanilla tactical squads will surely be updated with the new points costs and the special OR heavy options. But bar from grav guns that we don't know neither the effects nor the price, what do you think they will get? So not so many differences...

 

Same thing with assault squad : I REALLY doubt that GW will give the melta guns because it will makes a too obvious choice for everybody. So finally how do you imagine they could be so different from ours

 

I am not ok with every Dark Angels player who buys a Tactical squad getting stuck with Grav guns they can't use because GW decided to pull a 5.5 th Ed on DA players.

 

Assault Squads are one of the weakest choices in our codex, and the reason is that they never evolved as editions went on.  They are mediocre in shooting and assault, die just like any other marine, they aren't scoring, and aren't all that versatile.  This is because their equipment and rules really haven't changed all that much.  Unlike C:SM, BA, and SW, our Assault Sgts can't use Storm Shields meaning they die in challenges just like any other marine.  You can't assault out of a parked Rhino anymore.  And why spend 85 points on an Assault Squad when you can get a RAS for 80 points, which is better in pretty much every way? 

 

Company Vets are nothing amazing, but at least they can be used the same was as jump-pack-less Vanguard Vets.  Assault Squads don't have any real niche other than as a cheap tarpit unit...  But isn't that what we have CC scouts for?

[Master Avoghai]

Assault Squads are one of the weakest choices in our codex, and the reason is that they never evolved as editions went on. They are mediocre in shooting and assault, die just like any other marine, they aren't scoring, and aren't all that versatile. This is because their equipment and rules really haven't changed all that much. Unlike C:SM, BA, and SW, our Assault Sgts can't use Storm Shields meaning they die in challenges just like any other marine. You can't assault out of a parked Rhino anymore. And why spend 85 points on an Assault Squad when you can get a RAS for 80 points, which is better in pretty much every way?

But most of the point here are not DA specific. BA or UM assault squads are not able to charge from rhino as well and have a poor firepower.

And I really doubt that the addition of one or 2 grav guns will resolve this problem. Moreover, vanilla will get the drop pod with 10 slots instead of 12 and there's no guarantee they keep the storm shield option.

It's v6- metagame. The top units are short ranges multi shoot units. The losers of this version are the CC orientated units such as assault squads berserkers or banshees...

 

And actually since RAS is typical DA feature, I'm not really annoyed that GW made them more appealing than assault squads.

 

But again I don't understand the argument stating that SM codex will be better thanks to their tactical with grav guns and assault squads with a sgt with a shield.

[elphilo]

But again I don't understand the argument stating that SM codex will be better thanks to their tactical with grav guns and assault squads with a sgt with a shield.

This usually stems from "the grass is always greener" syndrome. I know I get it when a new codex comes out

Regardless, we can only speculate on what the SM codex will be getting until it is released. I think we need to save the woe is me and arguments about how "useful" our units are in comparison till the 6th edition SM codex comes out

[SRSFACE]

I wish that people who played Warhammer were less competitive overall. I got into the hobby back in November because I love the game world and thought it'd be fun to model and paint.

 

The game, though, it's a horrible flaming piece of garbage. It's glorified Yahtzee from a game mechanics standpoint.

 

I've had fun playing against other people who are fielding 6e codexes. Anyone still using broken cheese from 5th ed stuff, no, they dominate me in a way that I've simply told them bring a 6e codex army or we're not playing. I still feel pretty competitive against all the 6e stuff, though. I mean, at least I am capable of killing things. Maybe it's because most of the guys I know rocking 6e armies are like me in that they've only been collecting an army for less than a year so we don't really have the mega cheese. All the guys around here playing Necron and Imperial Guard have been doing so since forever and take pride in the fact absolutely no one enjoys playing them.

[FerociousBeast]

This is nonsense, guys. Some of us are so used to running around yelling, "The sky is falling! The sky is falling!" from our experiences with the 4th edition codex that we can't recognize a good thing when we get it.

 

We have a good codex. Codex SM will be brought in line with us, not made vastly superior like before. Yes, they will have options we don't have, but so do we.

 

This is the way it's supposed to be.

[ValourousHeart]

One of the complaints in this thread is that DA do not have a cost effective AA option.

 

But 3 hell drakes, which seem to be the biggest bone of contention, are 1/3rd of the points of a 1750 list.

 

So my question is what would you consider cost effective to counter 1/3rd of your opponents army?

 

I am also curious as when ever the Neph is complained about, the only flyer mentioned is the hell drake... And sometimes the vendetta.

 

What about compaired to the Ork, Tau, Eldar, DEldar, Necron, Demon, and Nid flyers?

[Master Avoghai]

So my question is what would you consider cost effective to counter 1/3rd of your opponents army?

The problem is the curve of effectiveness : we talk about 1/3 of an army that can kill 80% of yours during the 5 turns it's on the board.

Such unit exist in lots of codex but don't need 6 to be hit and 5 to be wounded...and don't have a LoS on everything every turn...

 

I am also curious as when ever the Neph is complained about, the only flyer mentioned is the hell drake... And sometimes the vendetta.

you forgot the storm raven.

 

What about compaired to the Ork, Tau, Eldar, DEldar, Necron, Demon, and Nid flyers?

I totally agree with that : we have 2 broken flyers (no doubt the vendetta will soon be downgraded particularly points wise) but the rest is very playable.