Anyone leaving for the new SM codex?

[Tiger9gamer]

We also have those special banners that help out a bit. Also the dark shroud.

[Brother dean]

Agreed. Our Black Knights also have Scout, Grim Resolve and Teleport Homers, as do our normal Ravenwing brethren. And they are black, much better than pansy white (don't tell white-coloured Deathwing armies I said that).

As default the White Scars might be better riders than our normal Ravenwing, but we are better at Bike recon and being all grim and resolute.

Dont forget that our bikes can go out after Labor Day...

Also the BK's get plasma and we have a supa plasma speeder, and as Tiger mentioned the Dark Shroud with it's buffs to Jink (and is the only Scouting Speeder that I know of...)

[Master Avoghai]

but my problem is, it's not really proxying when the army pretty much use the same models. barring a few bits and bobs.

The model are the same. But not their painting and iconography.

 

It's not like if you've invented a story with a successor chapter of the UM or IH in dark green. They are in dark green with winged sword, bone termis and black bikes. For everybody they just look like DA. In a way, you're not WYSIWYG.

 

Moreover I've always made the effort to paint all the squad markings or the chapter symbols when they weren't sculpted. I tried to identify each vet sgt... So when you have someone who said "no matter how you've painted your models and the time you've passed on them, they're just all the same" you understand how I feel.

 

Do what you want, after all you don't need our allowance... But don't be surprised by the reactions.

[Tiger9gamer]

 

but my problem is, it's not really proxying when the army pretty much use the same models. barring a few bits and bobs.

The model are the same. But not their painting and iconography.

 

It's not like if you've invented a story with a successor chapter of the UM or IH in dark green. They are in dark green with winged sword, bone termis and black bikes. For everybody they just look like DA. In a way, you're not WYSIWYG.

 

Moreover I've always made the effort to paint all the squad markings or the chapter symbols when they weren't sculpted. I tried to identify each vet sgt... So when you have someone who said "no matter how you've painted your models and the time you've passed on them, they're just all the same" you understand how I feel.

 

Do what you want, after all you don't need our allowance... But don't be surprised by the reactions.

sorry if i insulted you with that, I had no intention with that. you can come up with fluff reasons for things, but i see where your coming from. I didn't mean to imply that no matter how hard you work on stuff they are the same, I implied the base things are still the same as with other codex's. I also know it's what you do the the model to help make it different.

 

All I want to do is not be stuck in one way to play with the very finite sources I have, and not be, what i feel is happening, looked down Upon for doing this by other players. I don't want to be implied I am a "win at all cost" player if I chose to do this just because I want more ways to play with my marines. 

 

Again, I apologize if i came off as angry or hostile towards you or your modeling hobby.

[Terrahawk]

Now that the big picture of C:SM 6th Ed is clear (still assuming 40k Radio's facts are true), anyone else feeling all warm and fuzzy inside now that we didn't get 5th Editioned?

We have a lot of good stuff, the 'dex Marines didn't get. Also, the point costs and abilities of shared SM vehicles and equipment seem to be finally the same. Well okay, we didn't get grav guns in Tactical squads, but I can live with that.

Also, only we have Terminator and Bike Command Squads, neener neener neener.

[Interrogator Stobz]

They are looking pretty balanced at first glance, here's hoping the 'other' angels and those dirty pups get a similar treatment when it's their turn. Shame Tau is so much better; ho hum learning to deal with them will be fun.

[Gillyfish]

Well, IF the rumours are accurate it does give each Chapter a different feel, which is a good situation for all loyalist power-armoured players. We may well actually see White Scar players wanting to use our Codex instead of the marine one (although their rules are nice) and we may well be the go-to list for anyone who wants a terminator army. We get stubborn instead of Chapter tactics and we have a number of tricks that are unique to us, such as the banners and the power-field generator, plus our librarians can use a different lore.

 

So overall, I'm pleased with the differences between the lists. It'll be interesting to see how things pan out on the tabletop.

[Onisuzume]

So yeah, assuming we don't leave for the SMurf 'Dex.

Would anyone be picking up the unforgiven rules development again?

[Master Avoghai]

Now that the big picture of C:SM 6th Ed is clear (still assuming 40k Radio's facts are true), anyone else feeling all warm and fuzzy inside now that we didn't get 5th Editioned?

We have a lot of good stuff, the 'dex Marines didn't get. Also, the point costs and abilities of shared SM vehicles and equipment seem to be finally the same. Well okay, we didn't get grav guns in Tactical squads, but I can live with that.

Also, only we have Terminator and Bike Command Squads, neener neener neener.

I agree with that. No more Lysander wing or khorsarro wing like in 5th Ed. The centurions seems not bad but without any inv save, it's nothing the BK can't deal with.

My only 2 concerns are :

Why giving UM special rules? Codex IS codex UM. They don't need special rules.

Not removing the Vulkan twin linked special rule.

[elphilo]

My only 2 concerns are :

Why giving UM special rules? Codex IS codex UM. They don't need special rules.

Not removing the Vulkan twin linked special rule.

I think GWs intent for this is to make it like the Codex: Astartes and then make supplements for each chapter. As to the second, apparently when you're hunting something thats really important to your chapter, you can make really awesome weapons twin-linked.

[Tiger9gamer]

Allying in some grav bikers might not be an issue really (assuming SM command squads can get bikes and grav rifles) and could have an interesting effect on those giant MC's.

 

But, I'm starting to fear less and less for the codex creep, and have very high hopes that i'll have some new Space Marine armies at my GW store.

[Master Avoghai]

My only 2 concerns are :

Why giving UM special rules? Codex IS codex UM. They don't need special rules.

Not removing the Vulkan twin linked special rule.

I think GWs intent for this is to make it like the Codex: Astartes and then make supplements for each chapter.

Yeah but who wrote the codex astartes and followed it?

the dumbest thing is that who will play a "codex" chapter when there's no drawbacks playing the UM tactics?

As to the second, apparently when you're hunting something thats really important to your chapter, you can make really awesome weapons twin-linked.

Yup... And you're also good at re-rolling your pen hits with TLed meltas *sigh*

The 3rd concern is of course the storm raven : GW should have profited from this occasion to raise the points cost and update it via BA and GK FAQs.

[HsojVvad]

Now that the big picture of C:SM 6th Ed is clear (still assuming 40k Radio's facts are true), anyone else feeling all warm and fuzzy inside now that we didn't get 5th Editioned?

We have a lot of good stuff, the 'dex Marines didn't get. Also, the point costs and abilities of shared SM vehicles and equipment seem to be finally the same. Well okay, we didn't get grav guns in Tactical squads, but I can live with that.

Also, only we have Terminator and Bike Command Squads, neener neener neener.

Wait for the supplements too come out. :P That is where each Chapter will get more specific. I can already hear how OP Ultramarines are going to be. I guess Ward will be doing that one. That is a joke there. :P

[elphilo]

My only 2 concerns are :

Why giving UM special rules? Codex IS codex UM. They don't need special rules.

Not removing the Vulkan twin linked special rule.

I think GWs intent for this is to make it like the Codex: Astartes and then make supplements for each chapter.

Yeah but who wrote the codex astartes and followed it?

the dumbest thing is that who will play a "codex" chapter when there's no drawbacks playing the UM tactics?

As to the second, apparently when you're hunting something thats really important to your chapter, you can make really awesome weapons twin-linked.

Yup... And you're also good at re-rolling your pen hits with TLed meltas *sigh*

The 3rd concern is of course the storm raven : GW should have profited from this occasion to raise the points cost and update it via BA and GK FAQs.

Honestly I don't think its a big deal that they make the SM codex Codex Astartes and then make a Supplement to Ultramarines. It means that base SM won't get Tyrannic War Veterans and such. And hell, maybe they'll make the UM deviate a little bit

As to the Stormraven, its barely taken already as is. I think its at a good price point. Its costed like a flying land raider which it basically is.

[SRSFACE]

 

 

Unless the white scar suppliment changes that too. Also, this is from faeit 212 on the white scars:

WHITE SCARS CHAPTER TRAITS:

+1 to Jink saves

Autopass Dangerous Terrain tests

+1 to Hammer Of Wrath attacks

All White Scars units gain the Hit & Run USR, except for Terminators and Centurions.

 

so aparently all the white scar bikers will have skilled rider, and slightly better in CCW due to +1 of hammer of wrath.

 

Kinda disheartening how the basic biker of their chapter equals to the elite of ours in due to skilled rider.

 

 

Equals, no. It means their regular bikes surpass our regular bike squads (but then again, maybe they can't take an attack bike AND a land speeder along with that squad without it taking up more forces on the same force org), but they don't even remotely touch black knights.

 

Black knights have veteran status (so A2 LD9), and have twin-linked plasma guns on their bikes (1 in 3 has crazy super-duper grenades!) AND have S+1 Rending melee weapons, and bolt pistols in addition so they all gain +1 attack as well.

 

Twin-linked plasma guns, rad shells, 4 attacks on the charge (5 if you count hammer of wrath). I think I'm good with the Black Knights still being elite units.

[Gillyfish]

The White Scar rules give a different style of biker army to the RW. They won't have scout or teleport homers for a start and we will still have Black Knights. That seems right to me - individually, the White Scars are more aggressive and slightly more skilled as bikers, but they aren't as specialised as ours are.

[Isiah]

White Scars - they're not stubborn either if memory serves Gilly, and don't get a bike Command squad either [though could be wrong on that]. So yes as you say, a bike army but different :).

 

Cheers

I

[elphilo]

The White Scar rules give a different style of biker army to the RW. They won't have scout or teleport homers for a start and we will still have Black Knights. That seems right to me - individually, the White Scars are more aggressive and slightly more skilled as bikers, but they aren't as specialised as ours are.

The rumor is if you take Kahn they'll get scout as well. So they are essentially the same as RW with a special character. Now the real interesting thing we'll have to wait and see is if a Captain can only make one Biker squad troop. If that is indeed the case we won't have too much to complain about them.

[HsojVvad]

We don't know what White Scars will have until their suppliment comes out. I find it funny we get all these rumours for SM but nothing for WS suppliment that is suppose to come at the same time as SM.

 

While the WS in SM don't have what DA have, who knows what goodies they will get in their suppliment. 

[elphilo]

We don't know what White Scars will have until their suppliment comes out. I find it funny we get all these rumours for SM but nothing for WS suppliment that is suppose to come at the same time as SM.

 

While the WS in SM don't have what DA have, who knows what goodies they will get in their suppliment. 

Kahn will probably be like Farsight, in the base codex and in his Chapter's supplement with different rules. And you can play with whoever you like. 

[Terrahawk]

We don't know what White Scars will have until their suppliment comes out. I find it funny we get all these rumours for SM but nothing for WS suppliment that is suppose to come at the same time as SM.

 

While the WS in SM don't have what DA have, who knows what goodies they will get in their suppliment. 

 

I wouldn't worry too much about the supplements. Based on those supplements that have been released, they aren't complete revamps of their parent Codex. Just a little bit of rules-tweaking to give the army in question more flavour. They also seem to be pretty fluff-heavy as opposed to rules-heavy.

 

Unless the 40k Radio rumours turn out to be a hoax (which would be hilarious and annoying at the same time), we do have some real parity this edition around.

 

*plants the Standard of Fortitude to the ground*

[Hyphont]

I for one will not be "abandoning" the DA codex.  I started playing DA after 5th ED turned my Khorne chaos army into black legion with ridiculous things such as 2 Slaaneshi Demon Princes leading squads of berserkers.. just no.

 

And I played it with the DA codex.  Granted I used a lot of black reach models to pad out my termies and green men (not that mine follow normal DA colors) to keep my costs down, so many of them have "codex" markings that I have yet to shave off and repaint.

 

I even came in second at the locals for the Ard'Boys tournament(first place was a LeafBlower IG player), didn't have the time or money to go to regionals but it was still very fun.  I did use a little Demonhunter Codex cheese, but it was a small portion of my force, mostly for the non-heavy support land raider, and the Deep strike protection.  So I guess it was not a truly fluffy pure DA, but I'm running a successor chapter that does things a little differently.

 

That said, even if the DA codex turns out to be somewhat weaker, some sound tactical thinking can work around most hindrances. And frankly my other, much larger army, is Sister of Battle, so I like the challenge.  Nothing makes my day more then beating the local cheese monger who uses only tactics he read and studied online vice his own brain to come up with solutions.  Sure I loose a bit more often, but it makes the victories that much more sweet.