Allies for Blood Angels (two ideas)

[Meatcaber]

Hello everyone!

 

Have been thinking about this for a while now and finally got the Codex today. I'm pretty certain neither of these ideas is unique but that doesn't concern me. Mainly looking for a 500 point detachment to accompany my Blood Angels, I tend to play hybrid armies with a mix of Drop Pods, Vehicles and Assault squads.  

 

My first idea is Vet squads in Chimeras rolling up the table to support my BA - 2 squads of Vets with Meltaguns each in a Chimera, with a CCS filled up on Flamers in a 3rd Chimera. Gives me 2 anti-tank units and an anti-horde unit plus 60 'spare' points.

 

The second idea is 'blob' Autocannons. A CCS squad with Lascannon since they have better BS. A PCS with Autocannon & Grenade Launcher, 3 guard squads with the same loadout, plus 6 heavy weapon teams with Autocannons. This gives me 10 Autocannons, a Lascannon and 5 Grenade Launchers, plus 35 'spare' points. Could drop the 3rd infantry squad for an ADL with a Quad Gun to make it exactly 500 points. 

 

Alternatively, I could do a hybrid of these ideas as well. 

 

I prefer the first option, but I'm not sure, it just seems to fit the way I play much better than the second option. Also means I don't have to paint so many tiny faces! Mech BA supported by Mech Vets could work very well. 

 

The second option gives me tonnes of shooting for a measly 500 points but is also very static, though splitting them up all over my DZ could force my enemy to awkward tactical decisions(?). 

 

So, what do you guys think?

[Teetengee]

Because grenade launchers don't benefit from all the orders (First Rank Second Rank, I'm looking at you) I would suggest not using them. Also I wouldn't too much about static IG as your blood angels will be doing most of the movement. The ADL even without the Quad gun might be a decent investment though due to the cover it provides. Are you planning (in the second list) to objective camp with the allies?

[Tankenstein_PhD]

I'd say it depends on what role you want IG to fill. Most go with your second pick of having a "blob", particularly when the primary detachment is a PA army, because it gives them a bunch of cheap bodies to claim objectives with. So if you want some IG to just sit on objectives while your BA do the frontline stuff, take a platoon.

 

On the other hand, if you've already got objectives covered then vets make great units for special weapons. They can take a bunch of them, have the same BS as marines, and can ride in a Chimera. If you're looking for dedicated termie killers or tank hunters plasma vets and melta vets, respectively, are great choices.

[hendrik]

in addition to the recommendation for the objective sitting platoon:

your mechanised bloodangels will most likely outperform the veterans in every possible way due to 3+ armour saves, a comparable loadout etc

[Argun]

Here's my 2 cents...

 

Since BA are such an assaulty army, get IG artillery to soften up your opponent before you deep strike and chew him to bits. Colossi are great at removing models (S6, AP3, no cover, large blast, ordnance) and with barrage, take things out from a long ways away.

Take a cheap CCS, cheap Platoon, then go for artillery would be my suggestion.

[Meatcaber]

Thank you all for your replies :)

 

 

'Objective camping' was one idea I had, but I tend to place my objectives in my enemies DZ wherever possible as it plays to the Assault strengths of the BA. The BA do have ready access to Melta but it is not cheap, point for point Mech Vets can have more Melta than the majority of BA units. A bare assault squad toting 2 meltaguns, for example, is 210 points and not particularly good at assaulting. 

 

 

I've already got fast Vindicators providing artillery support, plus 3 of my key units are deployed by drop pod, having too much artillery being lobbed around could potentially be disastrous. Mech BA probably wasn't accurate, sure I have a few tanks (Baals and Vindi's) but none of them are transports - I use drop pods to get my units where I want them. Still thinking towards the first option as it fits into my theme and suits my style of play better... But then, that depends on what list I take!

 

 

Had a browse over the GW site at the Starship Trooper battleforce, two of them would give me everything I need for the second option - 2 commands, 4 squads, 2 weapon teams (will probably sell the sentinels). Would that enable me to arm them all the way I want?

 

Or one box and 3 Chimeras to do the first option but would l get enough special weapon options to arm 6 grunts with meltaguns, and have 4 flamers leftover for the CCS? 

 

 

Two boxes and 3 chimeras would give me everything and more, but that's too much... Want to just stick to collecting 500 points and leave it at that if at all possible!

 

 

 

[Argun]

thing is, only the CCS sprues come with melta/plasma guns. battlebox comes with 1 of each (but got lots of flamers/grenade launchers) You'd need to kitbash in order to get that many meltaguns (or just buy several CCS boxes)

[librisrouge]

Use the meltagun bitz on the GW website to arm the rest and go veterans. Of course, that advice is predicated on the rest of the list being somewhat mechanized.

 

As an IG player, first and foremost, I can tell you that the key to successful IG is saturation. Don't take a few of everything, nail down a tactic and drive it home. If your existing BA is mechanized (in most to large part) then add some veterans in Chimeras to amplify your close ranged firepower (consider a Russ varient as well) and add a few more cheapish scoring units.

 

If you're going mostly infantry, or DoA, then go with some blobs. They'll give you and anvil for your hammer and add considerable down range harassment for the enemy via heavy weapons.

 

Last bit of advice, avoid Heavy Weapon Squads. Sure they save points in the long run, if all you're interested in are some more heavy weapons, but they're ridiculously soft. Str 6 insta' gibs them and the whole squad (all 75-105 points worth) are only three models. Even with an Aegis you're usually giving up First Blood or going to ground (nullifying their weapon usage.) They're also only Ld7 and will be taking a moral check with each and every model taken off (since they only have three to begin with.) Take more infantry squads and blob them up to protect the bigger guns. You'll get less Autocannons but you'll get more lasguns and take it from me, Do Not Underestimate A Lot Of Lasguns!

[WarriorFish]

With Blood Angels you'll be assaulting the enemy as quickly as you can, so your Guard would be best supporting this. Direct firing (so no risk of friendly fire) weaponry to take out the things that would threaten your Marines would be a good idea, so a contingent of Autocannon Guardsmen holding objectives and opening up metal boxes so your Angels can devour the contents is a good plan.

 

If you're thinking of Vets, especially mounted ones then as has been mentioned Marines do this better as do Sisters so that's not what you'd want from allied Guard. Generally speaking you should play to an allied force's strength as why else are you taking them if not for that? Since you're limited in what FOC and points you have too you're best off specialising them to fill a gap in your primary army. For Guard this is undoubtedly providing numbers and fire power, maybe with some heavy armour to flavour :)

[hendrik]

i just got a 2000 pts game in again against my regular BA opponent and even a bare bones assualt squad with meltas outperforms the mechanised veterans easely, while costing almost as much. not to mention the assault marines will be able to use their melta sthe turn they deepstrike! ;)

[WarriorFish]

Indeed, allies should complement your force rather than compete against it. Veterans in a Guard army can perform very useful roles, but were they a unit in a Marine codex they'd never get taken!

 

The Guard make for great allies for Imperial forces, the armies of the Emperor fighting together using each other's strengths to cover their weaknesses to smash His foes as it should be. If I could I'd take Marines, Guard and Sisters in a single army!

[Meatcaber]

First of all, thank you all for your posts - you've been awesome!

 

You've convinced me to go the 'blob' route for my allies. The Mech/Vet is nice, but I should already have that covered with my BA.

 

So, two battleforces gives me enough to field:

 

Company Command Squad; Lascannon; 70

Platoon Command Squad; Autocannon; 40

Infantry Squad; Autocannon; 60

Infantry Squad; Autocannon; 60

Infantry Squad; Autocannon; 60

Infantry Squad; Autocannon; 60

 

Comes to 350 points and uses all the models (except the sentinels) from both battleforce boxes.

 

 

I'm worried that the command squads, like the heavy weapons teams, are too fragile. T3, poor armour save, and only 5 (or 8) wounds will quickly see them dead. How do you guys deploy your command squads? They can't combine with other units, from what I can tell.

 

The infantry squad will combine to 2 units of 20, just seems like a good thing to do. The command squads can then issue their commands to a unit each.

 

With the leftover points, what would you recommend? How about a couple of Chimeras for the command squads, will provide them protection from where they can issue orders in relative safety and with a multi-laser and heavy bolter each they can also provide a bit of covering fire. 

 

Anything else I should add or change?

 

 

Great advice from everyone. Thank you :)

[WarriorFish]

When in doubt shove them in a Chimera! They can issue orders from it and shoot from the hatch while remaining relatively safe. Safer still if you have plenty of other medium armour to saturate enemy attacks and of course the Chimera itself is no slouch. Even bare bones it can throw out a respectable amount of fire power, I've lost count of the number of times my Chimeras have taken out light armour and freed my bigger guns up for meatier targets.

 

I generally keep PCSs cheap with few upgrades as they're pretty squishy so it's best not to attract attention to them so they can keep dishing out orders and move to intercept/capture objectives etc. The CCS warrants a bit more attention, I like to give them a medic and carapace if I can to make them more survivable but a Chimera is the best protection they can get normally.

 

If you've still got points floating around, maybe Voxes to help orders get through? You'd only need one in each combined squad and command squad so it would be cheap and characterful :)

[hendrik]

alternatively, stick to cover!

Or, if you really want an "in your face approach", consider upgrading your platoon commander into al'raheim, allowing your entire platoon (40 guardsmen) to outflank him!

edit: also note that, since you're using heavy weapons in your infantry squads, you'll have 12 unused imperial guardsmen on foot. consider turning these into special weapon teams armed with flamers, perfect to roast some pathfinders/orks/nids!

[Meatcaber]

Awesome! Thanks, Warriorfish (and you, Hendrik :) )

Vox Casters would be a good idea. I am prone to failing Ld tests at the worst possible times so a re-roll would be invaluable!

Company Command Squad; Lascannon; Vox Caster; 75

Chimera; Multi Laser; Heavy Bolter

Platoon Command Squad; Autocannon; Vox Caster; 45

Chimera; Multi Laser; Heavy Bolter

Infantry Squad; Autocannon; Vox Caster; 65

Infantry Squad; Autocannon; 60

Infantry Squad; Autocannon; Vox Caster; 65

Infantry Squad; Autocannon; 60

Good catch with the 12 extra dudes. I will probably give them flamers but not use them until I want to try a PCS with 4 flamers in a Chimera... such a small, delicate unit won't last long without a transport. Can always mold them into a fifth squad for whenever!

490 points, sorted! Thank you all for your help :D

MC

[WarriorFish]

The Vox only works with orders, not Ld tests which is unfortunate but with your CCS and only a couple of squads you can bellow Get Back In The Fight to sort them out should they break. Flamers are a great weapon for Guard squads that can take several special weapons and arguably the best load out for a PCS so you won't be disappointed there

Your list is looking good, I wouldn't be surprised if it's the start of a proper Guard army as you'd have most of the minimum requirements for one Have you thought about paint schemes for them?

[hendrik]

my main concern with this list is that you'll use the chimeras as bunkers (which they aren't (anymore)) or as transports that move forward to support your bloodangels, which prevents them from placing orders on your guardsmen.

How about instead of the chimeras you get an aegis defence line? thig guaranties you'll always have cover! you can go to ground for a 2+ save if needed, and you can include a quad gun that grants you some anti flyer dakka! (not to mention it's cheaper money wise then two chimeras)

 

If you use the first list you made (the 350 pts one) this comes in at 450 pts, so you still have 50 points to include a scout sentinel, or if you ditch the lascannon for a cheaper heavy weapon a special weapon team

 

edit: could you also list your bloodangel force? it's important to keep track of your primary list that it doesn't lose it effeciency, or will this allied list be a suplement for your 1500 pts list to play 2000 pts games?

[Meatcaber]

Starship Troopers! That's my paint scheme :D

 

The extra dozen guys will probably get all the special weapons just on the off chance I wish to try them. And, you're right, my 'little projects' often do turn into fully fledged armies, haha. 

 

I would prefer the Chimeras for when/if I do add to the force. My meta isn't flyer heavy (most people field one, don't think I have ever seen more than one played at my club) so I tend to just ignore any flyers when they do show up. I'll probably just sell the sentinels to be honest, not really my thing. 

 

I have several armies for my BA and I don't always play the same one. I'll take my tournament list, my casual list, occasionally an all infantry list.

 

Generally, it's something like:

 

 

2 podded Furiosos

Either DC or Tac squad in the third pod.

1-2 Vindicators 

Baal predator (or 2 regular preds)

Mephiston (or regular Libby if I take assault squads)

Tac or Assault squad

[hendrik]

that's quite a shooty bloodangel list! now would the guardsmen be an add-on to the list, or do they replace certain unit?

my suggestion about the quad gun was more because a quatgun can tear through non flyer units all the like. if you place an autocannon armed comapny command squad next to it you'll be hurling out 6 autocannonshots with only 5 models, of which 4 can be precision shots if you use the commander to shoot!