Great Success with the Dark Talon

[DiscipleOfCaliban]

Finally found something the Dark Talon is genuinely good at.

 

Two of my friends always take respectively either a Flying Hive Tyrant or a flying Nurgle Demon Prince. My new method for taking these things down is simply place the Banner of Devastation next to a Dark Talon and shoot the 24 bolter shots at the flying monster in question. This is often enough to kill the thing on its own, when I'm lucky, but sometimes it just takes off a few wounds but leaves it flapping around up there. Always helpful to do this first so you can clean up with another unit providing it looks possible.

 

Overall, this has proved successful for me in two 1500 point games each for each of those opponents so far and is a technique I will likely stick with for a while. It's not perfect but it gives me an excuse to actually use our great flyer models.

[SnaRf.za]

What do you put the Banner on?

[Biggabertha]

It's really heartwarming to know the unit can really shine - even if it is a slightly costly for it (then again, for 160 points, that's not exactly BAAAAD...)

 

Dark Talon's main concern for me is competing with Black Knights and Dark Shrouds...

 

(It'd be REALLY nice to have a pair of Dark Talons backing up a Ravenwing Command Squad and a full squad of Black Knights, lol)

[DiscipleOfCaliban]

Ahh sorry. The banner is on a 5 man rw command squad.

[Prot]

But without the banner, can't the Nephifail do the same job? It won't rely on a banner to do it and will be firing a lot more at st 5-6.

 

Just a thought.

 

BTW: although I rag a lot on the Nephifail I have not actually fielded the Talon in games. It just didn't seem usable... that bomb thing seems almost unusable. So my somewhat biased opinion comes from only playing the Nephilim.

[DiscipleOfCaliban]

Yeah you may have a point. I actually took the Dark Talon rather than the Nephilim for a couple of reasons. Most importantly, in the list I was running I wanted to try the Nephilim but didn't have another 20 points to spare so thought I'd try the Talon.

 

On top of that I just thought that the quantity of shots would be more useful than the strength for what I was up against. Excluding the Flying monsters I was up against high model counts of 'Gaunts, Bloodletters, etc... just an abundance of low toughness troops. When I did the maths there was a slight edge towards the Talon thanks to twin linking sheer quantity of shots.

 

Really I was just lucky that I was against two of the few set-ups this worked well against.

[Biggabertha]

The Avenger Mega Bolter just doesn't cut it for me compared to a pair of Hurricane Bolters.

 

Five S6 AP4 shots per turn as opposed to twenty four Twin Linked S4 AP5 shots a turn rarely makes it back for me. For supreme mass fire, I think the Dark Talon has a good spot to do so. (cheaper than a a pair of Land Raider Crusaders at least!!)

 

But how many times can you get the Standard of Devastation within range, quickly enough..?

 

(Edited in a clarification... wasn't sure what I was talking about myself - naps do you good!)

[twopounder]

Finally found something the Dark Talon is genuinely good at.

 

Two of my friends always take respectively either a Flying Hive Tyrant or a flying Nurgle Demon Prince. My new method for taking these things down is simply place the Banner of Devastation next to a Dark Talon and shoot the 24 bolter shots at the flying monster in question. This is often enough to kill the thing on its own, when I'm lucky, but sometimes it just takes off a few wounds but leaves it flapping around up there. Always helpful to do this first so you can clean up with another unit providing it looks possible.

 

Overall, this has proved successful for me in two 1500 point games each for each of those opponents so far and is a technique I will likely stick with for a while. It's not perfect but it gives me an excuse to actually use our great flyer models.

 

Don't forget that flying monstrous creatures have to make that 3+ save vs crashing for every hit, meaning 24 shots is guaranteed to take them out of the air.

[DiscipleOfCaliban]

Good point. I'd forgotten that and I guess my opponents, these two are very new to the game, weren't aware of it.

 

Thanks.

[Tanhausen]

 

Finally found something the Dark Talon is genuinely good at.

 

Two of my friends always take respectively either a Flying Hive Tyrant or a flying Nurgle Demon Prince. My new method for taking these things down is simply place the Banner of Devastation next to a Dark Talon and shoot the 24 bolter shots at the flying monster in question. This is often enough to kill the thing on its own, when I'm lucky, but sometimes it just takes off a few wounds but leaves it flapping around up there. Always helpful to do this first so you can clean up with another unit providing it looks possible.

 

Overall, this has proved successful for me in two 1500 point games each for each of those opponents so far and is a technique I will likely stick with for a while. It's not perfect but it gives me an excuse to actually use our great flyer models.

 

Don't forget that flying monstrous creatures have to make that 3+ save vs crashing for every hit, meaning 24 shots is guaranteed to take them out of the air.

IIRC, its a crash test for every time a unit hits them...

[Chaplain Lucifer]

That is correct. They do a crash time for every time a unit's shooting hit's them. (So 1 DT only provides 1 test regardless of how many hits). And this only happens if creature is in Swooping mode.

[elphilo]

That is correct. They do a crash time for every time a unit's shooting hit's them. (So 1 DT only provides 1 test regardless of how many hits). And this only happens if creature is in Swooping mode.

Yep, just looked it up in the BRB. For a second there I was thinking have I been screwing myself over?

And I'm glad you've got the dark talon to work for you, but I feel thats a lot of points that can easily be taken out by some vector strikes

[DiscipleOfCaliban]

That is correct. They do a crash time for every time a unit's shooting hit's them. (So 1 DT only provides 1 test regardless of how many hits). And this only happens if creature is in Swooping mode.

Thanks for clearing this rule up.

That is correct. They do a crash time for every time a unit's shooting hit's them. (So 1 DT only provides 1 test regardless of how many hits). And this only happens if creature is in Swooping mode.

Yep, just looked it up in the BRB. For a second there I was thinking have I been screwing myself over?

And I'm glad you've got the dark talon to work for you, but I feel thats a lot of points that can easily be taken out by some vector strikes

Yeah I see your point but for now its in the list and doing a good job until I have the money to consider something else. Seems to be paying for itself though, usually killing over 200 points worth each game.

[twopounder]

That is correct. They do a crash time for every time a unit's shooting hit's them. (So 1 DT only provides 1 test regardless of how many hits). And this only happens if creature is in Swooping mode.

Thanks for clearing this rule up.

>

That is correct. They do a crash time for every time a unit's shooting hit's them. (So 1 DT only provides 1 test regardless of how many hits). And this only happens if creature is in Swooping mode.

Yep, just looked it up in the BRB. For a second there I was thinking have I been screwing myself over?

And I'm glad you've got the dark talon to work for you, but I feel thats a lot of points that can easily be taken out by some vector strikes

Yeah I see your point but for now its in the list and doing a good job until I have the money to consider something else. Seems to be paying for itself though, usually killing over 200 points worth each game.

That's still not very efficient, especially when compared to the cheaper Eldar flyer.

[SRSFACE]

I am genuinely surprised at the vitriol poured the Dark Talon's way on these forums. I find it's frequently an all-star in my games, behind my RW Command Squad.

 

Seems to me every 6e codex is getting an anti-infantry and an anti-vehicle flyer. The sad thing for Ravenwing flyers is they both struggle against other flyers, but that isn't their primary purpose.

 

The Dark Talon is just fine for it's point cost. It's basically an armor 11 landspeeder with more hullpoints, a bomb, and with better mobility. Outside of the turn it comes in, I rarely have it zooming to be honest. Lining up it's shots by dropping it into hover mode is pretty fantastic and lets you pick off people's scoring units just fine, and there's a good chance you blind the guys you're shooting at anyway which means they can only snap shot against you anyway, except NOW you get a regular jink save that doesn't bone you over next turn.

 

Honestly, the unit that needs a points cost drop more than any other in the codex, or needs an AV rating boost, is the LS Vengeance. I love mine, it tends to do work, but it doesn't do more work than an equivalently priced predator would do and it's also more brittle which is a bummer.

[Polythemus]

no eldar flyer is cheaper than the dark talon. they are the same base point cost, which is a statement that should make you cry. that said it is the more effective of the two flyers.

[Syphid]

The Dark Talon is just fine for it's point cost. It's basically an armor 11 landspeeder with more hullpoints, a bomb, and with better mobility. Outside of the turn it comes in, I rarely have it zooming to be honest. Lining up it's shots by dropping it into hover mode is pretty fantastic and lets you pick off people's scoring units just fine, and there's a good chance you blind the guys you're shooting at anyway which means they can only snap shot against you anyway, except NOW you get a regular jink save that doesn't bone you over next turn.

 

I've found the opposite.  Blind just doesn't take effect often enough (50% chance against I3) for it to be reliable and without Blind the rift cannon is worse than a heavy bolter.

 

And you can't get a jink save in Hover Strike.  A model needs to move in order to get a jink save, and you can't move while in Hover Strike.  Edit: You can't move when using Hover Strike (skimmer for a turn but can't move, at +1 BS) which is different than Hover Mode (change to a skimmer)

 

I've used the dark talon a couple of times, and it has never made as much of a difference that an equal points value of RAS or Black Knights would have made.

[SRSFACE]

Oh dear, you're right. I've been playing wrong. Might explain why I was having success with it when all I've read online is how it sucks.

 

Time to go get another Darkshroud.

[Brother dean]

Hover strike also means that any schmo out there can hit you at natural BS instead of snapshot.

[SRSFACE]

Right, I knew that. I just somehow missed that very important part where it remains stationary. I imagined the hover strike thing basically made it function as a gunship (which is to say, a helicopter but with jets).

 

I was running it as such, which made it pretty awesome. Kind of disappointed in myself I somehow missed that, and even more disappointed one of my favorite units is actually not nearly as good as I thought it was.

 

I think I still like it. Holding it stationary near a banner of devastation and then finally moving it to drop the bomb over a blob of guys you plan to hit with some black knights (or anything really) is still kind of neat. Considering my command squad with the banner also has a Librarian like 90% of the time, dropping the 4+ invuln psychic power on it when I'm lucky enough to roll the power could be pretty sweet, too. I'm going to have to go experiment.

 

And I think I *really* need a Fortress of Solitude *REDEMPTION* so Superman *THE UNFORGIVEN* could simply turtle up. Just gotta figure out what I should use for long range weaponry to kill other people's long range weaponry.

[Syphid]

Right, I knew that. I just somehow missed that very important part where it remains stationary. I imagined the hover strike thing basically made it function as a gunship (which is to say, a helicopter but with jets).

 

I was running it as such, which made it pretty awesome. Kind of disappointed in myself I somehow missed that, and even more disappointed one of my favorite units is actually not nearly as good as I thought it was.

 

I think I still like it. Holding it stationary near a banner of devastation and then finally moving it to drop the bomb over a blob of guys you plan to hit with some black knights (or anything really) is still kind of neat. Considering my command squad with the banner also has a Librarian like 90% of the time, dropping the 4+ invuln psychic power on it when I'm lucky enough to roll the power could be pretty sweet, too. I'm going to have to go experiment.

 

And I think I *really* need a Fortress of Solitude *REDEMPTION* so Superman *THE UNFORGIVEN* could simply turtle up. Just gotta figure out what I should use for long range weaponry to kill other people's long range weaponry.

 

Fortress of Redemption + Power Field Generator + Krakstorm + Banner of Devastation = Come At Me, Bro?

[SRSFACE]

Pretty much. I just worry about long table deployment against Eldar and other races with heavy weaponry with range beyond 48". Fire prisms would ruin my day with that 60" range.

[shortysl]

That is correct. They do a crash time for every time a unit's shooting hit's them. (So 1 DT only provides 1 test regardless of how many hits). And this only happens if creature is in Swooping mode.

Thanks for clearing this rule up.

>

That is correct. They do a crash time for every time a unit's shooting hit's them. (So 1 DT only provides 1 test regardless of how many hits). And this only happens if creature is in Swooping mode.

Yep, just looked it up in the BRB. For a second there I was thinking have I been screwing myself over?

And I'm glad you've got the dark talon to work for you, but I feel thats a lot of points that can easily be taken out by some vector strikes

Yeah I see your point but for now its in the list and doing a good job until I have the money to consider something else. Seems to be paying for itself though, usually killing over 200 points worth each game.

That's still not very efficient, especially when compared to the cheaper Eldar flyer.

160 points taking out a minimum of 200 points per game? How is that not efficient?!

We can make comparisons to any unit in the game; people who only look for negatives will always find them. The cost of Eldar Flyers is irrelevant. We are not Eldar......

[DiscipleOfCaliban]

That is correct. They do a crash time for every time a unit's shooting hit's them. (So 1 DT only provides 1 test regardless of how many hits). And this only happens if creature is in Swooping mode.

Thanks for clearing this rule up.

>

That is correct. They do a crash time for every time a unit's shooting hit's them. (So 1 DT only provides 1 test regardless of how many hits). And this only happens if creature is in Swooping mode.

Yep, just looked it up in the BRB. For a second there I was thinking have I been screwing myself over?

And I'm glad you've got the dark talon to work for you, but I feel thats a lot of points that can easily be taken out by some vector strikes ockquote> Yeah I see your point but for now its in the list and doing a good job until I have the money to consider something else. Seems to be paying for itself though, usually killing over 200 points worth each game.ockquote>That's still not very efficient, especially when compared to the cheaper Eldar flyer.

160 points taking out a minimum of 200 points per game? How is that not efficient?!

We can make comparisons to any unit in the game; people who only look for negatives will always find them. The cost of Eldar Flyers is irrelevant. We are not Eldar......

Well yeah i thought killing more than it cost was an efficient use of points personally. Especially since the Banner would be there regardless of whether or not I took the Dark Talon. And I completely agree, we can't compare out flyer costs to other Codexes. If we could just compare like that we would hear a lot more complaints about the fact that a Bloodletter with effectively a power sword from Daemons costs less than a power sword on it own for us.

[march10k]

That is correct. They do a crash time for every time a unit's shooting hit's them. (So 1 DT only provides 1 test regardless of how many hits). And this only happens if creature is in Swooping mode.

Thanks for clearing this rule up.

>

That is correct. They do a crash time for every time a unit's shooting hit's them. (So 1 DT only provides 1 test regardless of how many hits). And this only happens if creature is in Swooping mode.

Yep, just looked it up in the BRB. For a second there I was thinking have I been screwing myself over?

And I'm glad you've got the dark talon to work for you, but I feel thats a lot of points that can easily be taken out by some vector strikes

Yeah I see your point but for now its in the list and doing a good job until I have the money to consider something else. Seems to be paying for itself though, usually killing over 200 points worth each game.

That's still not very efficient, especially when compared to the cheaper Eldar flyer.

It's also not efficient compared to a multimelta attack bike that just nuked a land raider. So?