New to Imperial Guard

[robins_d]

Hi,

 

I'm contemplating an IG army and wanted to get some insight on what type of force they are. I know how they stack up against marines fluff-wise, but in actual game-play what's the general strategy. The first thing that comes to mind is to buy a whole bunch of troops with and handful of heavy weapons and use the troops as fodder as the heavies take out your better-armoured opponent. Is this accurate?

 

Also, I don't get the Vox Caster thing. Do you need to have that unit/item for your army to function? Can someone clarify how that works for me?

 

Any and all suggestions, explanations, etc are welcome.

 

Cheers!

[johnyocum]

The Vox-caster is used to basically give you a re-roll on issuing orders.  Very useful for when you want to give that nearby enemy a lot of flashlight integrity checks.

 

I do use the 'horde' tactic with my IG, but I've got 2 platoons, with each having like 4 infantry squads, 2 heavy weapon squads, and the command squad, with one having a sniper squad.  I've found that plasmaguns/meltaguns work well in the command squads, while the grenade launcher is useful for the 'basic' infantry squad (for its flexibility).  Veteran squads, in my opinion, should be kitted up to be useful in multiple roles, but find each one a niche in your army.

 

Of course, I'm a 7-year veteran of the US Army, so I think like a soldier anyway.  That means I go nowhere without my trio of Leman Russ tanks for support, as well as an Armored Sentinel as mobile firepower.

[librisrouge]

I keep wanting to go full infantry but mechanized warfare keeps pulling me back. Consider having your army mounted and ready to go with a half dozen chimeras. The chimeras allow you some mobility, extra heavy weapons, and added protection against incoming fire. Backed by big guns (Leman Russ and Artillery) you've got a formidable force on your hands.

 

As far as veterans go, I have to disagree with johnyocum. Kit them with a specific purpose in mind. This often means three of the same special weapon but a docturine or heavy weapon to help them alone isn't out of the question. With guard you can have redundancy that other armies can only dream of. So they killed a squad of meltavets? So what? You have two more and a platoon with lascannons if you need to go tank hunting.

[Argun]

For me, I kinda mix blob infantry with heavy artillery. Marines loathe Guard artillery, since most of it is AP3+, plus barrage! Recently, I've played with Creed, and I can tel you that he's fun! Outflanking some Russes really puts a smile on my face.

[WarriorFish]

The ways to crush the Emperor's enemies with the Guard are many, so you will find them quite flexible in how you can interpret an army and still be effective. As you reckon Guard do indeed function well with numbers and fire power - it's how Guard are designed to work more or less and is our primary advantage over other codices.

Factor in the heavy armour providing some real durability and mobile big guns and you can find a solution to almost every problem. That solution is normally shooting it until it goes away, but it still works

If you want an infantry company with the numbers and heavy weapons to pulverise your opponent in a war of attrition then you can really make the most of the Guard's strength. Why not create an artillery company like Argun and have your troopers supported by the Guard's biggest guns? Or Leman Russ tanks like john for a resilient army with lots of big and nasty guns?

Voxes are pretty cheap and useful for reliably dishing out orders, especially for crucial moments/units but it depends on your list as to how best to use them. Lots of infantry supported by a good officer network can capitalise on orders and really punish your opponent and foil his plans and Voxes help that happen - how many you take and if that's worth the cost is up to you!

If you haven't already I suggest looking into the Guard rumours that are surfacing. They're a bit wobbly as far as rumours go for the moment (Superheavies in a codex seems hard to believe) but could help you decide. Especially if you'd rather collect a Steel Legion themed army (I hope that rumour is true for my fellow Guardsmen!). Otherwise we're always here (almost literally in some cases...) if you have any more questions

[hendrik]

welcome to the soldier side lad! where the food is bad and the guns even worse!

you mentioned a synergy between space marines and the imperial guard. do you want this force to be an addition to your space marine army?

As the others have mentioned redundancy is one thing the guard offer, however, there's so much more.

A guard army can be tooled to:

-create a horde your opponents can't possibly take out

-deliver a cripling alpha strike, using heavy tanks, artillery etc

-make a gunline you're opponent will have trouble reaching

-create a mechanised horde, either with specialised veterans, or cheap infantry squads, or even a mix of the two!

-field a gazilion of tanks going from chimeras up to the venerable leman russ

-muster the imperial navy

and that's before we take into account all the options imperial armour books will offer you!

Do you have any experience with some of these playstyles? If so which style do you like (the sound of)?

The imperial guard is possibly the most versatile army to play, so we'll need to know what sort of force you'dd like to play in your mind before we can offer more solid advice!

[robins_d]

Wow, a lot of great responses, thanks!

Right now I'm looking to get back into 40K after about 15 years away (I know much has changed). I've always gravitated toward Space Marines because they're easy to use/understand and purchase, however I do have a fondness for Imperial Guard (at least aesthetically) and wanted to get some deeper info.

 

Presently I'll be playing with a small group (2 others) and we're interested in starting really light (like, 500-700pts light). Is an IG army feasible at such a small point scale?

 

I love the notion of lots of troops...hordes of the Emperors footsoldiers laying down a curtain of lasgun fire over His enemies! I'm not fond of the Cadian soldiers (aesthetically) and was leaning towards the Steel Legion or (if they were easier to find in North America) the Death Korps of Kreig.

So, I guess my two main questions to start with are:

Is an troop army of 500-700pts doable?
Is it doable as a Steel Legion army (are they drastically different than Cadians)?

 

Thanks!

[Argun]

Here's my $0.02:

At low points levels, guard can shine with the amount of bodies they can put on the table (mandatory 2 troops can put up to 50 guys on the table for 260pts.) Steel Legion IIRC don't have their own codex, so you basically use the same rules as normal. Add in say, Creed, who can dish out 4 orders a turn (provided there aren't any double 6's) and Guard can get really nasty, really fast. 

There's a reason that people fear the flashlights in large numbers!

[hendrik]

fluffwise a lot of the steel legion forces were mechanised squads however to have your entire force mounted AND have a lot of bodies at 500-750 pts is rather hard to do.

There are rumours too that the steel legion will get their own plastic kit when the next guard codex arrives (expected within a year) so you might want to hold off on buying many (expensive) metal steel legion models...I know i would!

 

I would honestly suggest waiting a little bit before committing a lot of money on metal models when they are rumoured to appear in plastic within a year. In fact, I have an alternate suggestion, allowing you to get a few games in and learning the game mechanics again while you wait for the plastic steel legion to arrive:

an allied grey knight army

given the high pointcost for these models you'll have a 500 pts force fast while spending only a "small" amount of money. fluffwise these also make great allies for the steel legion representing the grey knights involved in the 3rd(?) war of armageddon?

[robins_d]

fluffwise a lot of the steel legion forces were mechanised squads however to have your entire force mounted AND have a lot of bodies at 500-750 pts is rather hard to do.

There are rumours too that the steel legion will get their own plastic kit when the next guard codex arrives (expected within a year) so you might want to hold off on buying many (expensive) metal steel legion models...I know i would!

 

I would honestly suggest waiting a little bit before committing a lot of money on metal models when they are rumoured to appear in plastic within a year. In fact, I have an alternate suggestion, allowing you to get a few games in and learning the game mechanics again while you wait for the plastic steel legion to arrive:

an allied grey knight army

given the high pointcost for these models you'll have a 500 pts force fast while spending only a "small" amount of money. fluffwise these also make great allies for the steel legion representing the grey knights involved in the 3rd(?) war of armageddon?

 

When you say "mechanised" I take it you mean in sentinals, tanks, etc? I like the look of Steel Legion but if the fluff says they're mostly in tanks, etc than I may consider another option. Do they make any IG forces in plastic besides Cadians? Personally, I find Cadians to look kind of 'meh'.

[johnyocum]

I've only seen plastic Cadians and Catachans, but there are probably others that just aren't so mainstream.

[hendrik]

most fluff has them as a chimera mounted force, however, there were many many regiments in the steel legion and not all of them rode in chimeras.

There's quite some fluff on them in the new apocalypse book, perhaps it's worth it to read through it if you can?

So far the only plastic imperial guard line models are either cadians or catachan, but like I said before, there are rumours of steel legion plastics inbound (which only seem plausible given the focus on armegeddon in the recent apocalypse book).

the main reason why i advise on starting a steel legion force right now is because it'll be very expensive to make a fully well tailored list (swapping out heavy weapons/special weapons is harder/more expensive etc)

Hence my suggestion for an "allied" grey knights force, they are relatively cheap (high point cost/model ratio), and with henchmen you can include some steel legion models if you'd like. It would make a very fluffwise allie given the involvement of the grey knights in the third(?) war of armegeddon in which the deamon primarch angron ascended upon the planet.

Alternatively you could have a small bloodangel/space wolves force.

All of these options are in general a bit cheaper then starting a guard army, will allow you to get a few games in, get a hang of the mechanics and a playstyle you'll like and most of all give you something to do while you wait on the next imperial guard codex with the rumoured plastic steel legion models.

the space marine/grey knights force them could be a nice addition to field a 1000-1500-2000-2500 pts army while your steel legion force grows

 

Offcourse if you really like the steel legion models you could just go ahead and start your steel legion force right now,using the metal models! in the end it's all up to you ;)

[Warhead01]

The thing with Guard is it is a mental disorder in the making. Once you commit it's hard to give up.

win, loose or draw they are a lot of fun and a lot of work. But an army like Steel Legion is a fairly good start. A squad out of the box is 70 points with no extra upgrades . and a chimera is what? 55 points to start. You could easily put together a working army with half the models or less of a foot infantry army. I would build 1000 points as a base attach another allied army that I already had. You could set up a mec platoon supported by vets also transported a Company Command and add in some heavies.  this army lets you create a wall of armour 12 facing the enemy and you might have some points left over for the artillery.  It's not a cheap army to buy. But it might be cheaper then an all Infantry army.

[robins_d]

Is drawing up your own regiment really feasible? I've read a few posts about it online and I think I could modify the colour scheme and composition of a Cadian force to come up with something cool and original (play around with some point costs based on the IG codex - since we're just friends playing I think this would be accepted).

[clanfield]

my cadians are the 116th infantry and 9th armourd. my infantry are striped down basics well under 500pts throw in a russ and I can fight 600 pts ish is it viable hell yes in the 25 odd years of playing 40k they are the only army to never be defeated or even drawn ,ofc I can field upward of 4k pts but at the lower end don't underestimate a kantreal pattern with a bayonet attached and the odd russ or two.

 

on arty I love my basilisk called her matilda after the brit ww2 tanks she knocks big holes in tau gun lines :) 

I usually post 1 platoon as security on my co and arty and the second in chimeras assaulting with the russ's and sentinel's

 

I recently even started converting a adeptus mechanicus tech guard company  to support my warhound in apoc

 

guards are great fun to play and they always get you home I find preserver and the emperor protects

[hendrik]

Hey robin, don't give up on your steel legion idea! warhammer is expensive enough as it is, there's no point in getting the miniatures you don't like that much when the others are available as well

 

here's some more information about the armageddon steel legion:

in the  second war for armegeddon 25 regiments of the steel legion were involved

as i said before, fielding a steel elgion army is a very viable choice! my only advise was not to do it but to wait a little longer to see if the rumoured plastics will arrive so you don't feel ripped off having paid 17 dollar for a single heavy weapon team.

 

here's a small army list using the current steel legion models for you:

 

company command squad; lascannon chimera; heavy flamer, multilaser 125 pts

veteran squad: missile launcher, grenade launcher chimera, heavy flamer, multilaser: 140 pts

veteran squad: missile launcher,grenade launcher chimera, heavy flamer, multilaser: 140 pts

devildog tank; multi melta 145 pts

basilisk; 125 pts

armoured sentinel: plasma cannon 75

total 750 pts

 

this is a quick mock up list, and far from optional, but it uses most of the steel legion models unconverted

moneywise this comes in at 324$ if you buiy the steel legion officer, 3 steel legion squads, 3 chimeras,a sentinel, the steel legion lascannon, a hellhound kit and a basilisk.

[WarriorFish]

A lot of great responses here, I can only echo their sentiments!

If you like the look of the Steel Legion you should really wait and see. The rumours are wobbly but gaining strength, this would be even more so should the Steel Legion supplement also come which would be surely guaranteed should the plastics materialise. You do not want to start collecting Cadians and then find your favoured model come out in awesome new plastics... (which is why I'm sort of hoping plastic Tallarn never happen!)

That would make starting your army up this year a little difficult though, but if you're happy with not gaming right away or using proxy infantry models then you could start developing your paint scheme and painting up your armour

As mentioned Steel Legion may be known for being heavily mechanised with plenty of armoured fist squads, Sentinels and tanks but this by no means precludes an infantry horde. Even less so if you create your own DIY regiment and just style them after Steel Legion/use their models

I quite like hendrik's list, Guard do better at lower points values when focusing on their quantity because of the relative investments required in the minimum FOC unless you take Veterans (which would give you resilience issues). It's not until you get a few more points to play with that you can really start getting creative :)

[robins_d]

I've come up with an idea to do my own regiment partially themed after ww2 soviet forces. Is it acceptable, fluff-wise, to use Cadian figures for this? Is the armour Cadian troops wear considered general/generic IG armour?

[Argun]

It's the generic armor AFAIK. Great way to illustrate the soviet-style of army is to get Chenkov and a platoon of conscripts. For only 75pts. +the points to max out the squad, you get 50 guys who can come back from the dead! (minus ICs)

[clanfield]

I had a old valhan army painted up as the volistad from the final liberation game basically russkies even did the red colour tabs etc looked great go for it ,I stoped and sold the regiment when the plastic cadians came out

[FashaTheDog]

I personally despise vox casters in the current codex as you could model a Guardsman holding a sign that says the order and it would be a little more believable. I mean 12" range to re-roll a failed order? If it were 24" I would say fine, but the range is far too short. You must also have a vox caster in the issuing unit and receiving unit. I usually take just the regimental standard (not that my Krieg have the option not to, but that is another kettle of fish) and let my orders go pass or fail on their own to save points as I often need those 40-60 points that an army wide vox network costs. They can be useful, but in 2,000 point all infantry lists, you can often get another infantry squad for the cost of all those trooper carried dry erase boards.

Now as I predominately play Death Korps of Krieg, I find that when I switch back to boring old Codex Guard I still play the same way, just sans the artillery units . That means in 2,000 points I am fielding at least 150 bodies and usually far more than that. I almost always take three Infantry Platoons; one has a trio of Infantry Squads armed with a plasma gun and lascannon, one has a threesome of meltaguns (one of which sports an autocannon and plasma pistol so the unit is WYSIWYG as the Tallarn boxed squad came equipped that way back in the day), and the last is also a trio, but armed with flamers and a Commissar or two with the intention of becoming a 31 or 32 strong combined unit to tar pit things. I often throw an autocannon and grenade launcher in one Platoon Command, a pair of grenade launcher and/or a missile launcher in another, and leave the third fairly cheap as they're only taken and squads pulled from the other platoons to issue Front Rank Fire, Second Rank Fire. I scatter a few heavy weapon teams throughout the platoons and add a Command HQ with a regimental standard and then start most of my lists from there. I have the Forgeworld event Ogryn, so I often run a squad of five of them to provide some assault counter attack or act as a second tar pit, but mainly to just allow me to use an awesome model. I have found that a unit of five Stormtroopers with a pair of meltaguns is a great unit to solve problem enemy armor issues and in 2,000 points if you take a pair with Marbo and attach an Astropath to the Command HQ, you can usually cause some serious turn 2 mayhem in your foe's backfield for minimal investment of points which will not only see those three units kill stuff, but also likely buy you another turn to shoot your foe as he needs to turn some of his attention away from the rest of your army to deal with those eleven models. With any spare points, I then buy a Master of Ordnance and more Infantry and Heavy Weapon Squads. I might get a Veteran Squad with sniper rifles because I have a squad of Elysians I painted as Phantine Skyborne equipped as such and they look good.

It has been my experience that Leman Russ should be run at a minimum of three. If I run any, I run five. When I do I also give my Command HQ a Chimera (Mars pattern Luxury variant - the interior has a hardwood floor and fireplace). I also find that outflanking Scout Sentinels, kept cheap, are a good addition, and I run my CPLT-C4 Catapult variant Sentinel for added long range support and more armor for my foe to deal with.

Now once you get your Guard going, Forgeworld also offers a few Guard lists of their own; Death Korps of Krieg Siege Regiment on the website, Death Korps of Krieg Assault Regiment in Imperial Armour 12, Krieg Armored Battlegroup in Imperial Armour 7, Elysian Drop Troop army in Imperial Armour 3 Second edition, Imperial Guard Armored Battle Group in Imperial Armour 1 Second edition, D-99 (super elite, hard as all get-out not to lose horribly every time you play them Elysians) in Imperial Armour 4, Renegades and Heretics (traitor Guard with Alpha Legion) on their site, but not linked (Google it), Servants of Slaughter (Khorne flavored) in Imperial Armour 6, and Servants of Decay (Nurgle flavored) in Imperial Armour 7. With only a few additions to what you own in your stand codex Guard army, you can easily expand into these other lists if your group has no objections, which will give you the advantage of different lists with the same models, much like your average Marine player gets to do. The Krieg Armored Battlegroup is also the only standard 40K army list that can field super heavy vehicles, a Gorgon as a dedicated transport for your Infantry Squads. Now I grant you the Gorgon is more often than not a giant point sink in a regular game, what with a single twin-linked heavy stubber and four one shot mortars (the mortars can be upgraded to sponsons, but it is expensive), yet it is still fun to drop one for the look on your foe's face (two is gets even better reactions, but that is nearly 900 points right there without any upgrades).

As for the models, I recommend going with the ones you like the look of best. If you have a sufficient budget to buy Forgeworld and you like the Krieg stuff, I say buy them as they look spectacular on the table and are great fun to paint (provided you enjoy painting). You will either have to buy them at events like Adepticon or Games Day or order from their website in all likelihood, but £250 (free shipping) is not really that terribly hard to hit, especially if you are staring an army (£224 for a Command HQ and two minimum sized platoons; 55 models). It will cost much more than your standard GW mini Guard army, but if you have the income and like the models you may actually regret later not having gone that route. The only reason I have a regular Guard army in addition to my Krieg one is that my regular Guard was started before Forgeworld existed, but I know if I were to have started a GW model Guard army today, I would certainly regret not having gone for the models I adore instead. Just something to consider if the funds are available to you. If by chance you do go Krieg, then it is worth noting that the Imperial Armour 12 list is vastly superior to the free .pdf on the Forgeworld site (add that book to the above minimum army and there's your free shipping).

At smaller sized games, Guard are similar to Dark Eldar in that both armies can be down right nasty. At 500 points you can easily include a Vendetta or at 750, a pair of them. Most opposing armies will struggle with them at that point level due to the lack of anti-air. Meanwhile, you get a solid anti-tank or anti-air unit (or two) of your own. Marbo is a good cheap and accurate demo charge delivery system worth considering and when you combine a platoon and/or some Veterans in the list, many people will be at a loss as to how to deal with your army.

[clanfield]

I agree totally although I usually spend 5-600 pts on infantry and top up with armoured assets

[WarriorFish]

Fasha is absolutely right: don't compromise on the models you're getting as you'll only regret it later! I can not stress that enough and I'll repeat it as many times as I have to!

 

Like clanfield I don't tend to spend too much on Troops and thanks to relative low costs you can get a lot in for 600 odd points. Then you can go to town on the heavy equipment :D I had a 500pt game with my Guardsmen yesterday and it was quite a refreshment course as my options were severely limited by meeting the FOC requirements. Disciplined lasgun fire carried the day along with timely interventions by the veterans, lessons I will be taking forward as I look to increase my infantry count :)

[robins_d]

Okay, some more questions here:

1.) The group I'm playing with will mostly be fielding troops. One player is playing Chaos Marines and has the Hellbrute from the Dark Vengeance boxed set, while the other is playing regular Marines and fielding some Terminators (and possibly bikes or a land speeder - if he can fit them into 500 points). I'd like to run a mob-style force of IG troops but don't really know where to start in terms of what units/weapons to choose (we may run some civil war style fights so I can fight the regular Marines with my IG). Can I get some suggestions on force chart composition/loadouts?

 

2.) Can someone explain to me how orders work (or direct me to where I find it in the rulebook)? I can't find anything but explanations of what the orders are, not how you implement them in the turn sequence (I may be daft and just need a page number).

 

3.) Can IG use Space Marine transports (Rhino)?

 

4.) I'm probably going to have $200-$250 to get started. Can I even do a mob-style force for that much?

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

 

[Argun]

I may be able to help you here:

1) Cheap HQ, cheep troops (basic platoon has 25 guys including the PCS) try to fit in some AP3 arty if possible (I'd suggest colossi)

2) Should be on the reverse side of the CCS entry (where all the fluff for it is)

3) Sadly, no.

4) Buy 2 battleforce boxes, gets 50 or so troops, plus extra HWTs and sentinels  IIRC each is about 90-100 bucks