Traitor Guard 1000pt list (testing out ideas)

[Targetlock]

Here is my first attempt at a 1000pt allied force of traitor guard using the guard codex. aiming for an infantry, cultist style horde, making up the numbers for my elite nurgle marine horde. any comments and or suggestions would be helpful :)

 

HQ

 

> Company Command, Carapace Armour, Medi-pack, Vox-caster, Regimental Standard, Master of Ordnance, Plasma Gun: 165

 

Elites

 

> 5 Ratlings: 60

 

Troops

 

> Platoon Command, Voxcaster, Plasma Gun: 50

> Infantry Squad, Voxcaster, Plasma Gun: 70

> Infantry Squad, Voxcaster, Plasma Gun: 70

> Infantry Squad, Voxcaster, Grenade Launcher: 60

> Heavy Weapon Squad, Heavy Bolters: 75

> Penal Legion: 80

 

Heavy Support

 

> Leman Russ Vanquisher, Heavy Bolters: 210

> Leman Russ Battle Tank, Heavy Bolters: 170

[Argun]

Looks alright, but here is one serious question: do you plan on taking the Infantry Squads, and blobbing them? If so, only one vox should suffice.

I can help with some general ideas, and apparently I'm the resident artillery guy, so all I can really do is suggest that you take basilisks or colossi instead of Russes (that, or I'd suggest a Punisher. those things are fun!).

Hopefully Uber or Warriorfish can get over here to give more advice than I can.

[Targetlock]

Thanks, but is it best to keep the infantry squad as individuals or blob them together? i think personally i prefer individual squads for the tactial flexibility. and also forgot about punishers :) any experience with ratlings? i just had the points leftover and thought of some conversion ideas.

[Argun]

The few times I've run ratlings, has just been for da lulz. They haven't done much for me personally, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't take them if you like them!

With normal infantry squads, it's usually best to blob them up. Standard size around here is usually suggested at 20 men per blob. The general consensus on plasma is that they usually should be put with Veterans (BS4 is a godsend in Guard!) with the Grenadiers (4+ armor) so that they can most likely survive their Gets Hot! rolls.

Other than that, can't think of much to critique on this list. I'm sure the others can help with that

[Kassill]

I'd personally drop the heavy bolter sponsons on the Vanquisher, the 2 plasma guns from squads 1 & 2, and the ratlings to get another Heavy Weapons squad (Heavy Bolters or Autocannons). You'd still have 15pts to throw one of the dropped plasma's back into the PCS. And if you decided to blob up, you could drop two Voxcasters and get 2 more Grenade Launchers back into the squads that dropped the plasma's.

[WarriorFish]

Plasma is also good on a CCS as they get access to FNP too. Looks like a good hordey list to support your pointy marines, I usually run very similar Platoons and running them individually works well for me as I like the additional mobility. I think that blobbing is more often than not a personal choice. My preferred infantry squad weapon is the flamer, cheap and effective and neatly avoids BS issues

Ratlings are a good way to spend left over points and can do some good with a bit of luck but like Kassill I'd say maybe not really suitable for an allied force where you want to have a defined focus. I also agree on dropping the sponsons on the Russes as neither tank benefits from them much and along with dropping the Ratlings that would net you a fair number of points to play with.

Your CCS feels a little expensive for a 1000pt list but I can see what you're doing with them. Maybe drop the plama or swap it to a melta for tank hunting? It'd be nice if you could squeeze another heavy weapon squad in like Kassill suggested - mortars are cheap and effective and feature in all my lists

[Targetlock]

second version of list, sticking with individual squads for flexibility and mixing up the squad weapons, ratlings and punisher for fun :) grenade launchers i like because of the versatility of the ammo types. one question: why are sponsons pointless on the leman russes?

 

HQ

 

> Company Command, Carapace Armour, Medi-pack, Voxcaster, Regimental Standard, Master of Ordnance, Meltagun: 160

 

Troops

 

> Platoon Command, Voxcaster, Plasma Gun: 50

> Infantry Squad, Voxcaster, Grenade Launcher: 60

> Infantry Squad, Voxcaster, Grenade Launcher: 60

> Infantry Squad, Voxcaster, Flamer: 60

> Heavy Weapon Squad, Heavy Bolters: 75

> Penal Legion Squad: 80

> Heavy Weapon Squad, Mortars: 60

 

Heavy Support

 

> Leman Russ Punisher: 180

> Leman Russ Vanquisher: 155

 

Elites

 

> 6 Ratlings: 60

 

Hope you like, any further advice would be great.

[WarriorFish]

I like it You could be here forever tweaking it though so the best thing to do is get it on the table and see how it performs!

For completenesses sake it would be useful for you to let us know how you plan to run your primary list, but I'd only be able to offer rudimentary advice on them as my knowledge on Chaos extends only to how best to kill them

[Targetlock]

Thanks for the advice, for the sake of completeness heres the chaos force i will be using it with, the gift of mutation is there simply for the fun and character

> Chaos lord, Power Axe, Sigil of Corruption, Gift of Mutation, Chaos Bike, Veteran of the long war: 155

> 10 Plague Marines, 2 Plasma Guns, Icon of Despair, Veteran of the Long War, Gift of Mutation: 290

> 10 Plague Marines, 2 Plasma Guns, Icon of Despair, Veteran of the Long War, Gift of Mutation: 290

> 5 Bikers, Mark of Nurgle, Power weapon, Flamer, Icon of Vengeance, Veteran of the long War: 186

> Defiler, Havoc Launcher, Warpflame Gargoyles: 205

Note: this post was edited due to the fact i put up my 2000pt list up rather than my 1000pt list! oops :)

[Beachymike123]

i really do hate to be a party pooper here good chap and fellow traitor guardsman, but if your traitor guard are your allied force then you can only have one HS option, so you might have to make a choice and potentially drop one of the russes! however, don't despair as i'd offer some ways around this.

1 - you keep the traitor guard as your allies, drop one of the russes but instead take a squadron of hellhounds (or one of those types) and you'd have plenty of points to play around with so as you beef your units up or even add another infantry squad (potentially, but it would probably be naked and best used as a meatshield). or 2 - you switch the roles around so as the traitor guard are your main force and your CSM are the allies (which, going by the list above would be more viable and more suited, think plague marines lurking at the back and striking when the enemy is largely softened up, or the servants of decay leading their mortal followers to victory). or 3 - don't think of each army as being the 'ally' if you like. build them up over time so you can get a feel for them, and then when you want to ally just take the elements from each army that complement each other best when facing an opponent (although bear in mind who will be the primary force and who will be the ally). 

hope this helps fellow dark god follower, may you find a way round this conundrum and bring many a victory for the ruinous powers! 

[Argun]

Leinmann, you're forgetting that Russes can squadron up to 3 tanks. If you want fluffy stuff, I'd suggest getting some Bane Wolves (think Hellhound, only with nastier gun). Those'd fit the Nurgle theme quite well, since they're chem-cannons.

[Kassill]

Leinmann, you're forgetting that Russes can squadron up to 3 tanks. If you want fluffy stuff, I'd suggest getting some Bane Wolves (think Hellhound, only with nastier gun). Those'd fit the Nurgle theme quite well, since they're chem-cannons.

 

 

Yes, but I believe (don't hold be to it) they have to fire at the same target, so where as the Punisher you'd want shooting the infantry and squishy stuff while you'd want the Vanquisher knock out 'Raiders and Russes etc etc.

[Targetlock]

Thanks for pointing this out, i didn't realise that :( i never did like the idea of squadrons, shooting at the same target and the way damage carries across. Traitor guard as the main force might be good idea as it means i won't lose anything, chaos lord will definitely be the warlord. plus the marines force is just a small portion of what i have in my collection :)

[Tankenstein_PhD]

On the issue of Russ sponsons: Kassill was saying that HB sponsons do not mesh well with the Vanquisher specifically. They're for killing infantry, but the Vanquisher cannon kills tanks. Sponsons in general are not useful on the standard Russ or Demolisher, either, since Ordnance will reduce them to snap shots.

 

A quick guide for sponsons:

LRBT: none

Exterminator: heavy bolters

Eradicator: heavy bolters

Vanquisher: none

Punisher: heavy bolters

Demolisher: none

Executioner: heavy bolters or plasma cannons, your pick.

[Beachymike123]

 

Leinmann, you're forgetting that Russes can squadron up to 3 tanks. If you want fluffy stuff, I'd suggest getting some Bane Wolves (think Hellhound, only with nastier gun). Those'd fit the Nurgle theme quite well, since they're chem-cannons.

 

 

Yes, but I believe (don't hold be to it) they have to fire at the same target, so where as the Punisher you'd want shooting the infantry and squishy stuff while you'd want the Vanquisher knock out 'Raiders and Russes etc etc.

 

@argun, very true, i did forget that, my bad. the way i was reading it though was if targetlock was going to have them as 2 separate HS entries, which is why i suggested the options above. 

@kassill you are correct there fella, its basically a unit for all intents and purposes and will have to fire at the same target. iirc they even have to remain within 2" of each other but someone can correct on that if i'm wrong. 

@targetlock by the sound of things, you're warming to option 2 which is to reverse roles. this is good and bad for you unfortunately my friend. bad - if the traitor guard become your primary force, your warlord can't be your chaos lord, it would have to be your CCS. however, if the traitor guard are your primary force, then you can go with multiple builds where each component compliments the other. although not as great in 6th, MSU with nurgle marked units can form anchor points in your army, and by having them limited by the allied FOC this is magnified (both in good and bad ways). the best way i can describe it is think of detachments in the empire (WHFB) if they still use these, if not i'll elaborate later. 

also, i appreciate that you want your CSM to be the leaders of the mortals, i do exactly the same thing but i do what i described in option 3. to me, part of the hobby is fluff for your army and how it fits in the 40k universe. it doesn't matter if your warlord is from your traitor guard or CSM (in my case iron warriors). when using your CSM as your main force, sure, your guard elements become pawns for their superiors. when your guard are the main force and you have more boots on the ground, think f it as your chaos lord has allowed his favourite pet some slack on the leash. working fluff into the army is a great way to expand on both the character of the army and what you want to get next. i've even seen it where someone has used their dreadnought as their leader, and their captain is nothing more than an apprentice. 

[Argun]

Here's an idea to stay (kinda) fluffy: why not have the Lord 'counts as' a Lord Commissar? You get the awesome model, and for fluff reasons, if a mortal displeases him (fails Ld. check) he gets to blow them to bits!

Failing that, why not have him as company commander, with some of his lackeys? (gotta add in carapace armor though. better saves for everyone is always good! Also: the commander does come with an invul. save, so that's a bonus!)

[Targetlock]

Nice ideas, will definitely give some ideas to chew over, thanks for the suggestions on sponsons, so the lumbering behemoth rule for leman russes doesn't apply anymore then? i think i like the traitor guard as main force idea (shame about the warlord, but the CCS will have to be warlord but only only under the rules not fluff purposes ;) ), the horde of expendable minions overseen by the nurgle elite has a certain appeal :)  the problem i see with the lord commissar, nice idea but i like the options and protection of the command squad, shame he doesn't have the option :(

[WarriorFish]

Or Primaris Psyker as a heretic of some sort? Last I checked it was 4" for vehicle squads but I've not checked since 6th further than nothing that immobilised vehicles can be left behind and no longer count as destroyed (rather as a new separate unit).

 

A Hellhound (or variant) would be an excellent addition to any Guard army, you could mod it so it throws some Nurgley stuff rather than flames if you were really enterprising!

[Targetlock]

Any luck with a primaris psyker? haven't seen or heard much about them though i do like the nurgle hellhound idea or a devil dog variant, spewing out clouds of corrosive plague could be fun to make :) maybe i could drop a tank...hmm lots to consider.

[WarriorFish]

My plan is to run him again at some point with my Psyker Battle Squad and see how that goes, but I mostly took him as a cheaper HQ option when I wanted it. I've not used him in 6th since I've moved entirely to using a CCS and making use of orders. His shooting attack was pretty cool but I never used his shroud one as I felt it a bit lacklustre so worth looking at again to see how it fares in 6th.

So it was more of an idea for an alternative HQ choice rather than a tactical suggestion. Wish I hadn't left my rulebook behind with all the terrain now - can anyone have a quick look to see how his powers stack up now?

I completely missed the squadron thing (in my defence, Guard is almost always my primary force!) so I'd definitely drop one of the Russes to fund a Hellhound. The HH and its variants are easily one of the better units in the codex in my opinion, they will serve you and your theme very well That's a WarriorFish guarantee!

[Targetlock]

glad to hear that :) which version do you think would be best? leaning towards either the hellhound or the banewolf at the moment, the bane-wolf i think is most characterful though.

[WarriorFish]

They're both very good, really depends on how you like your poison. It more or less boils down to what you'd rather have; more range or more punch? The Hellhound is a good default choice as you'd expect, but for your list maybe the Banewolf would be better? It could run in support of the bikers or your infantry nicely.

 

If you've not got the kit yet I strongly recommend magnetising it so you can have all three. It's not that hard to do :)

[Tankenstein_PhD]

Nice ideas, will definitely give some ideas to chew over, thanks for the suggestions on sponsons, so the lumbering behemoth rule for leman russes doesn't apply anymore then? i think i like the traitor guard as main force idea (shame about the warlord, but the CCS will have to be warlord but only only under the rules not fluff purposes ), the horde of expendable minions overseen by the nurgle elite has a certain appeal the problem i see with the lord commissar, nice idea but i like the options and protection of the command squad, shame he doesn't have the option

Nope, Lumbering Behemoth got FAQ'd out. All Russes are now just considered Heavy vehicles. The difference is that you can no longer move faster than Combat Speed (LB allowed you to move 6 + D6 inches) and you suffer the same penalty for Ordnance weapons every other vehicle does. The upside, though, is that any variant with a Heavy turret weapon can now load up with sponsons and shoot them every turn unless it gets Shaken/Sunned.

[Argun]

Haven't run a Primaris Psyker yet, but I can say that the battle squad is very nice for making that big nasty unit of thunderwolves run away! (9 psykers + stock powers = Ld2 for wolvies!)

 

Ran them a few weeks ago in a game that unfortunately saw me table my opponent. One of my friends walked up and said; "Nice army here-- those (the psykers) make you a bad man!" (more or less what he said, if not in those exact words.)

[WarriorFish]

Yes we've had the Heavy discussion a couple of times before, might be worth a sticky or something because it's quite a significant change that 6th brought that many people seem to be unaware of. It's why we advocate not taking sponsons on the Ordnance Russes (MBT and Demo) :)

 

I'm looking forward to trying my PBS out, I'll be interested in seeing how close some mega armoured nobz get to my lines with terrible Ld rolls :lol:

 

Are you going to be doing any conversions for your army? Nurgle offers a lot of options depending on how much work you're willing to commit. That said with quite a number of Guardsmen to do it might be too much work...