New Dex

[Blindhamster]

Dante at init, make astorath be init 1 instant death with a name like the executioner it would fit.

[Leksington]

If we are wishlisting i'd love to have that +1I back, and maybe use jump packs in both movement and assault phases, can't kill so many marines if i'm in your face by turn 2.

 

Those are exactly the first two changes I would make, and I think it would go a long way towards making BA competitive while keeping their play style within the BA ethos.  

 

What really kills me is that they could simply FAQ/Eratta that in tomorrow if they wanted to.

[Paulochromis]

or you could play with C:SM(RG)

[SnorriSnorrison]

or you could play with C:SM(RG)

Mate, that would mean to give up everything our codex offers for weaker assault marines and the ability to not take them as troops, but use their jump packs in two turns. Hardly an improvement in my eyes

Snorri

[ianj253]

@ Mort, I agree with you on Mephiston. His success in the new dex relies on his retention of wings. However, If he retains wings as his staple power and is able to roll on the BRB psychic table he'll be even better IMO.

[Morticon]

Agreed.

[Ushtarador]

Mephiston with wings and iron arm *swoon*

 

NO INVUL SAVE? TOUGHNESS 9 DOESN'T CARE!!!

[Spagunk]

I also think that a slight buff to close combat would be the way to update Blood angels without going overboard.

 

Here is pretty much my wishlist however:

• +1 initiative added back to our furious charge.
• Some way to slightly offset overwatch. Possibly some form of randomized roll so that it's not completely nerfing overwatch but gives us at lease some ability to actually charge something. Would be ok for this to be a wargear item.
• More AA ability. 100pts for a quad autocannon isn't too bad but that's pretty much a whirlwind or vindicator at that point. Maybe adding a missile type to the whirlwind instead of dedicated AA vehicles. None of the new kits really strike me as a good option but realistically they are probably going to be added anyway.
• Dante getting some more tactics. I like the idea of choosing his warlord ability.
• Give Dante the ability to actually use his friggin Initiate 6!
• More options for Captains
• VanVets keeping current Heroic Interventions. (It just fits!)
• Expand the number of Sanguinary Priest to 4 (5 would be ideal).
• Add a champion to Sanquinary guard. +1 WS and maybe some form of chapter relic. A mini-sanguinor may be kind of cool.
• Chapter relics (1 per model with possibly the blood champion being able to equip all of them).
• More options for Blood Champion (see above).
• Maybe assault from transport. Probably have a dangerous terrain test kind of like skies of blood.
• Point adjustments for relevant entries. Would be ok with keeping Van Vets at same point cost if you keep HI the same. Or reduce base cost for the unit but keep cost for additional units (kind of funky so unlikely).
• Keep our Chaplain options.
• Landspeeder storm.
• Something in regards to our techmarines. They just aren't really worth it versus our other options. Not sure what can be done but something different would be cool.

As far as new units go, I can't really see anything needing to be added. I am of a mind to agree that BA should not be Space marines +1 and with what we have now, we have a really good number of units. You have at lease six options for each slot which I feel is plenty. As others have stated, a good FAQ update is really all that is needed to fix us. Something more unique would be helpful.

 

Kit wise, I would love the following:

• Sanquinary Priest kit with option either for terminator armor, jump packs and/or bikes. I really like the way the old plastic captain turned out but am not really cool with the new static kit. The kit probably works as a stand alone foot sloggin/jump pack type kit but the option for a bike or terminator armor would be fantastic.

[ElectricPaladin]

 

I also think that a slight buff to close combat would be the way to update Blood angels without going overboard.

 

Here is pretty much my wishlist however:

• +1 initiative added back to our furious charge.
• Some way to slightly offset overwatch. Possibly some form of randomized roll so that it's not completely nerfing overwatch but gives us at lease some ability to actually charge something. Would be ok for this to be a wargear item.
• More AA ability. 100pts for a quad autocannon isn't too bad but that's pretty much a whirlwind or vindicator at that point. Maybe adding a missile type to the whirlwind instead of dedicated AA vehicles. None of the new kits really strike me as a good option but realistically they are probably going to be added anyway.
• Dante getting some more tactics. I like the idea of choosing his warlord ability.
• Give Dante the ability to actually use his friggin Initiate 6!
• More options for Captains
• VanVets keeping current Heroic Interventions. (It just fits!)
• Expand the number of Sanguinary Priest to 4 (5 would be ideal).
• Add a champion to Sanquinary guard. +1 WS and maybe some form of chapter relic. A mini-sanguinor may be kind of cool.
• Chapter relics (1 per model with possibly the blood champion being able to equip all of them).
• More options for Blood Champion (see above).
• Maybe assault from transport. Probably have a dangerous terrain test kind of like skies of blood.
• Point adjustments for relevant entries. Would be ok with keeping Van Vets at same point cost if you keep HI the same. Or reduce base cost for the unit but keep cost for additional units (kind of funky so unlikely).
• Keep our Chaplain options.
• Landspeeder storm.
• Something in regards to our techmarines. They just aren't really worth it versus our other options. Not sure what can be done but something different would be cool.

As far as new units go, I can't really see anything needing to be added. I am of a mind to agree that BA should not be Space marines +1 and with what we have now, we have a really good number of units. You have at lease six options for each slot which I feel is plenty. As others have stated, a good FAQ update is really all that is needed to fix us. Something more unique would be helpful.

 

Kit wise, I would love the following:

• Sanquinary Priest kit with option either for terminator armor, jump packs and/or bikes. I really like the way the old plastic captain turned out but am not really cool with the new static kit. The kit probably works as a stand alone foot sloggin/jump pack type kit but the option for a bike or terminator armor would be fantastic.

 

Sadly, that last will never happen. I think that GW is paying increasing attention to the way they cut their kits to avoid giving us too many bits. It would be too easy for bits sellers or your own huge collection of leftover bits to enable you to use a priest kit with terminator and power armor and bike and jump pack options to build all of the above while cutting GW out of the equation. They don't like that.

 

The rest looks ok, though I question the necessity of landspeeder storm and more options for our techmarines. Ok, I see why the latter might be cool, because nobody uses Blood Angel techmarines at all and that's sad. But the thing is, this isn't the general marines 'dex. It's going to be stronger in the things that Blood Angels are good at. Blood Angels just aren't known for using scouts and techmarines. We'll have them in the codex, but since they aren't a specialty, I doubt they'll get very many toys.

[Calnus]

Point reductions on troops, dual-use jump packs, and updating our characters would make me very happy with the army.  Really, the other things I'd like to see (mass artificer armor available/MC weapons, initiative bonus back somehow, FMC/fighter) would just be gravy.

 

If there is any way I can make 30-50 jump marines rushing the other guy competitive, I'll be a happy gamer :)

[Xenith]

Have priests and Chaplains as Slotless HQ choices along with Techmarines when you purchase a normal HQ.

 

Having priests and chaplains in elites slots is silly, IMO. Then you can buy a captain, HG, Priest and Tech in the same HG for the same slot, going back to how it used to be.

 

Make captains viable through force org switches.

 

Assault marines go back to FA, point discount - they are not meant to hold ground.

 

Veteran assault marines - point drop, retain charge after deepstrike.

 

Everything in the army gets Rage.

[JamesI]

If there is any way I can make 30-50 jump marines rushing the other guy competitive, I'll be a happy gamer

Yes, please!

I want my Dante led all jump army (with a few attack bikes) to work again!

[Disruptor_fe404]

I also think that a slight buff to close combat would be the way to update Blood angels without going overboard.

 

Here is pretty much my wishlist however:

 

*snippy snip!*

 

I highly doubt that old Furious Charge will make a return, that Vanguard Veterans will keep old Heroic Intervention, that the Blood Champion in the Honour Guard units will get too many more options, or that there will be more options for assaulting from vehicles.

 

Everything else on you list though? I think you're very likely to see them in your Codex. Hell, some of them are practically guaranteed (Captains, relics)!

 

The Overwatch counter that you're looking for will probably be from cheaper and more-to-a-slot Sanguinary Priests though.

[Terrahawk]

Yeah, I'm affraid the old FC we knew and loved is gone for good. That is one of the things that really irks me about the 6th Edition, a completely unnecessary nerf.

 

On the bright side, a weaker FC might mean that our Marines come equipped with it. That might leave Priests for FNP and additional buffs. I also hope we have a means to get Rage outside of DC, that would be boss.

 

I'm actually pretty optimistic about our 'dex, since we come later in the edition cycle the designers won't be overly cautious. And as much as it sucks for the Templar players they got folded, that does leave us as the only truly Assault PA marine book. I'm sure we will rock as an assault army.

[vahouth]

What do you think the chances are that instead of a New Codex we get a supplement instead that may come even sooner?

[Memento Of Prospero]

What do you think the chances are that instead of a New Codex we get a supplement instead that may come even sooner?

I doubt it. We were not included in the original

[DarthOvious]

or you could play with C:SM(RG)

Big Problem, looked at the new dex for this idea myself and saw that Assault Marines & Vanguard don't get access to meltaguns.

[DarthOvious]

I also think that a slight buff to close combat would be the way to update Blood angels without going overboard.

Here is pretty much my wishlist however:

• +1 initiative added back to our furious charge

Would be gret to have that back but I don't think it will happen.

Some way to slightly offset overwatch. Possibly some form of randomized roll so that it's not completely nerfing overwatch but gives us at lease some ability to actually charge something. Would be ok for this to be a wargear item.

Certainly, our marines need to get into close combat somehow. I've got a funny feeling they'll stick to simple mechanics and just make or marines more survivable somehow. Probably wargear like the Eternal Shield

• More AA ability. 100pts for a quad autocannon isn't too bad but that's pretty much a whirlwind or vindicator at that point. Maybe adding a missile type to the whirlwind instead of dedicated AA vehicles. None of the new kits really strike me as a good option but realistically they are probably going to be added anyway.

Remains to be seen if we get those AA tanks or not. However having the Sanguinor as previously suggested as a monsterous creature would be awesome. We'll probably get flak missiles as well.

• Dante getting some more tactics. I like the idea of choosing his warlord ability.

Would be good, it would fit his fluff quite well.

• Give Dante the ability to actually use his friggin Initiate 6!

I'm afraid of this bit. Not that I think it would be a bad idea for Dante, it wouldn't be. However we'll only get one or two AP2 weapons that strike at Initiative and I would preferrably see them on the Sanguinor or Mephiston.

• More options for Captains

Yep, give us our Artificier Armour back.

• VanVets keeping current Heroic Interventions. (It just fits!)

It would fit but I can see GW taking this away from us in the next codex. Sad I know, but at least they will be cheaper.

• Expand the number of Sanguinary Priest to 4 (5 would be ideal).

Even better yet, make them a non slotted choice. I love these guys though so I don't want to just see them become upgrades but keep their unique entry but it doesn't take up a slot. Also a decrease in points for some of their stuff in the next codex would be great. 25pts for a jump pack & 35pts for a bike is too much for a model that only has 1 wound. His base points cost already includes the benefit of what he provides the army anyway.

• Add a champion to Sanquinary guard. +1 WS and maybe some form of chapter relic. A mini-sanguinor may be kind of cool.

I would like to see them get a greater number of attacks. They should be able to count as having two CCWs. That way they get 2 base attacks, 1 extra for 2 weapons, 1 for charging and then pay for any extras with the use of a banner. That way they get 5 attacks each, but then they'll be probaly be expensive if that we're to happen.

• Chapter relics (1 per model with possibly the blood champion being able to equip all of them).

We should get relics for our HQ chioices just like the SM Codex. Obviously our own relics but we need something to add to make us survivable.

• More options for Blood Champion (see above).

He'll probably end up like the SM version. Hopefully WS5 if thats the case.

• Maybe assault from transport. Probably have a dangerous terrain test kind of like skies of blood.

Great idea. We are afterall famous for our assaults from transports. Thats why we have lucifer pattern engines to begin with.

• Point adjustments for relevant entries. Would be ok with keeping Van Vets at same point cost if you keep HI the same. Or reduce base cost for the unit but keep cost for additional units (kind of funky so unlikely).

We'll probably lose HI and gain the SM one. I agree its the kind of thing that suits us, but I just don't see us keeping it. As for the points, we';; get reduced in line to SM. Our chapter tactics will have something to do with the red thirst.

• Keep our Chaplain options.

Absolutely, keep the Reclusiarch as our HQ chappie and then another Chaplain elsewhere. Hopefully as a unslotted choice again, but I don't think GW would even dream of it. There is a chance they may do it with the priests but they won't do it with the Chaplains.

• Landspeeder storm.

I think we will get this in the next codex. It suits us so much. An open topped vehicle for our scouts to assault from. If anybody remembers 3rd ed then they will remember Blood Angel Scouts in the 3rd ed codex.

• Something in regards to our techmarines. They just aren't really worth it versus our other options. Not sure what can be done but something different would be cool.

Techmarines were never really a unit I took. I don't think I would even field them for SM. Perhaps Iron Hands have a reason to use them now though.

As far as new units go, I can't really see anything needing to be added. I am of a mind to agree that BA should not be Space marines +1 and with what we have now, we have a really good number of units. You have at lease six options for each slot which I feel is plenty. As others have stated, a good FAQ update is really all that is needed to fix us. Something more unique would be helpful.

Personally I would love some new HQs. A terminator character of some sort and I would also love to see the return of Moriar the Chosen. Yeah, I know he was just a DC Dreadnought but I want to see him again on the battlefield as Moriar. On the other hand it may be better for GW to expand the successors some more. Why stop at Seth and the Flesh Tearers? Bring on Angels Sanguine and Angels Vermillion chapters.

Kit wise, I would love the following:

• Sanquinary Priest kit with option either for terminator armor, jump packs and/or bikes. I really like the way the old plastic captain turned out but am not really cool with the new static kit. The kit probably works as a stand alone foot sloggin/jump pack type kit but the option for a bike or terminator armor would be fantastic.

It will be interesting see what kits we get. We'll probably end up with some monsterous creature kit though. As for Sanguinary Priests, we'll probably just get a character pack for it, model on foot.

[Disruptor_fe404]

I honestly think it will be fine if your Sanguinary Priests drop to 35 points and don't take up a slot. To compensate for the reduced FNP effectiveness and being able to be singled out in a challenge.

 

Also, I cannot stress how much I really, really want your Sanguinor to become a FMC.

[ElectricPaladin]

What do you think the chances are that instead of a New Codex we get a supplement instead that may come even sooner?

 

I think it's plausible. I can see how a supplement-sized document could theoretically cover all the necessary units, special characters, and rules changes. I'm not saying it's likely, mind you, just that I could see it happening.

[Zynk Kaladin]

I've perils on Wings so many flippin' times I question what I have done to offend the dice gods.  Seriously, taking away Wings would neuter Meph so hard that the only viable way to run him would be a Stormraven...

 

All REALLY need in a new BA 'dex is cost updates or buffs to our assault squads.  The BA 'dex has really good support options like fragiosos, fast tanks, etc, but our core troop selections are annoyingly expensive and just ineffective in this uber rooty-tooty-point-n-shooty edition.  I can't couldn't the number of times I've barely survived a game with just 1 lone assault marine lustfully grasping an objective in cover like a Battle Sister to Sanguinius's statue(Emperor bless such imagery). 

 

Cheaper sanguinary priests would be awesome, too.

[Chaplain Admetus]

If there is any way I can make 30-50 jump marines rushing the other guy competitive, I'll be a happy gamer

Yes, please!

I want my Dante led all jump army (with a few attack bikes) to work again!

I've been trying it out recently. 30 jump assault marines at 1750, along with a razor squad, a pair of priests, a raven, and judicious use of bikes/attack bikes to support. Was great fun; think it's actually doable with a bit of tweaking.

[Rutzah]

All REALLY need in a new BA 'dex is cost updates or buffs to our assault squads.  The BA 'dex has really good support options like fragiosos, fast tanks, etc, but our core troop selections are annoyingly expensive and just ineffective in this uber rooty-tooty-point-n-shooty edition.

 

I agree about the ineffectiveness of our ASM, but i dont think its because of their price. The ASM in the new sm codex are only 1 point cheaper than ours and they are not even troops, not to mention they dont have access to meltaguns. Of course raven guard tactics are nice for jumpers, but still they are Fast Attack slots.

[Stonedog]

I for one am a super "fluffy" player....I love our Chapter and its background.  I am not a tournament player at all.....that being said, I do play in some local tourneys, but mostly to get in 5-6 games in a day!  If I win, I win and if I lose I lose....

 

I just really want a re-costing and the Storm Talon....

 

The ST just seems able to lay down a LOT of hurt onto troops!

 

What I don't want is a Gundam style whats-it....I just won't run it or buy the model.....and the new Centurions or horrifically bad models....IMO.

 

Also, please GW give me the TFC, pretty please??

 

The new SM dex is almost enough to make me play a "red marine" chapter of mine own making....

[DarthOvious]

 

All REALLY need in a new BA 'dex is cost updates or buffs to our assault squads.  The BA 'dex has really good support options like fragiosos, fast tanks, etc, but our core troop selections are annoyingly expensive and just ineffective in this uber rooty-tooty-point-n-shooty edition.

 

I agree about the ineffectiveness of our ASM, but i dont think its because of their price. The ASM in the new sm codex are only 1 point cheaper than ours and they are not even troops, not to mention they dont have access to meltaguns. Of course raven guard tactics are nice for jumpers, but still they are Fast Attack slots.

 

Its a lot to do with the rule changes in 6th and also the new shooting power weilded by Tau and Eldar. The editon changes brought with it a nerf to cover saves (so more die), dead models being removed from front line (so more distance to cover), overwatch (so more die on the way in to combat) and random charge distance (not guranteed to get into assault even if your 6" away). That alone was enough to put the bullet in the head of our assault squads.

 

I play Tau as well and the amount of damage we can do with our shooting is bordering on the ridiculous, including overwatch. My Broadsides with their High Yield Missile Pods & Smart Missile System could probably kill off 3 marines in overwatch alone.