So...

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

If it looks like a duck...

 

Though I'd argue Grey Knights also look like ducks...

[RazorDaemon]

If it looks like a duck...

 

Though I'd argue Grey Knights also look like ducks...

They are psykers, but they were specifically mentioned as an exception to the "no psykers as allies" rule, when we had that rule. I still think it is possible that may be mentioned in the BT section of the new Codex, even though they've only mentioned the part where you can't take them in a BT army itself.

[Kristoff]

*Pulls out Boltgun*

Did someone say, "Duck Season"??

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

If it looks like a duck...

Though I'd argue Grey Knights also look like ducks...

They are psykers, but they were specifically mentioned as an exception to the "no psykers as allies" rule, when we had that rule. I still think it is possible that may be mentioned in the BT section of the new Codex, even though they've only mentioned the part where you can't take them in a BT army itself.

Oh, I'm aware. Makes no sense though, does it?

Either all psykers are out, or all Psykers are in. The Emprah said no Psykers in the Legions. He didn't say "no Psykers, but Grey Knights are cool. Inquisitors? No, that noise. Bloody busybody bureaucrats."

Picking and choosing which bits of what your 'god' said you have to follow makes no sense.

Wait...

[Firepower]

Well in fairness the GK didn't exist at the time of Nikaea

And they are ducks, but dressed as knights, which we have already proven is acceptable. Ducks are out, because they weigh as much as a witch, but a knightly power armored duck is proper Templar material, because he weights far more than a witch.

[RazorDaemon]

If it looks like a duck...

Though I'd argue Grey Knights also look like ducks...

They are psykers, but they were specifically mentioned as an exception to the "no psykers as allies" rule, when we had that rule. I still think it is possible that may be mentioned in the BT section of the new Codex, even though they've only mentioned the part where you can't take them in a BT army itself.

Oh, I'm aware. Makes no sense though, does it?

Either all psykers are out, or all Psykers are in. The Emprah said no Psykers in the Legions. He didn't say "no Psykers, but Grey Knights are cool. Inquisitors? No, that noise. Bloody busybody bureaucrats."

Picking and choosing which bits of what your 'god' said you have to follow makes no sense.

Wait...

Grey Knights weren't around at that time, they came around much later, and technically most people, citizens or even Space Marines, aren't aware of their existance. Another thing is that the Grey Knights are closer to the Emperor's own gene seed than any other Space Marine. Not to mention, while a corrupted or traitor Black Templar is about as common as a Death Guard Chaos Marine taking a bath and wearing deodorant, a Grey Knight corrupted or traitor is like a Plauge Marine taking a bath, getting immunizations and wearing deodorant.

[KhorneHunter57x]

This thread makes me want to get a Thunderfire and have a Techmarine playing Duck Hunt as the targeting system...

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

I'm aware that neither the OM nor the GK existed at Nikea. Doesn't make any difference really, though. The Big E was pretty unequivocal about it; there wasn't a door left open for the GK. 

 

My point was, and is, that it is arbitrary nonsense to exclude Psykers except Grey Knight Space Marines.  I could maybe see it if there was an exception for units taken from C:GK, but it's still a bit of a cheat, IMO. 

 

Templars should either embrace all or exclude all. That's all I'm saying.

[RazorDaemon]

Just to clarify my earlier comment, I am playing my own Black Templar successors, the Argent Templars, but they are not "okay" with psykers. The only reason I'm considering having my Templars allied with my Wolves, with a Rune Priest, fluff wise is basically "Ok, your brothers impressed us with their relentless charging and hacking the enemy to pieces in the name of the Emperor, so we will give you one small chance. But if you step out of line you will have 100 bolter rounds in your head and 100 chainswords in your chest that instant."

 

 

Also, on the note of GK being an exception to the "no psykers" it also mentioned Inquisitors and the like cannot actually take any powers if they wish to ally BT. As far as Codex: GK, it didn't exist at the time of Codex: BT's printing, it was still Codex: Daemonhunters.

[Andhil]

@Razor:So your Templars are:

1-Okay with certain Psykers.

2- Not Black? Suspicious......

'Okay' Psykers can be devided into 3 categories:

-Astropaths

-Navigators

-Dead ones.

[RazorDaemon]

@Razor:So your Templars are:

1-Okay with certain Psykers.

2- Not Black? Suspicious......

'Okay' Psykers can be devided into 3 categories:

-Astropaths

-Navigators

-Dead ones.

Not Black, because they are successor, like Red Templars and White Templars (likely, not 100% confirmed) are successors of BT. They are not okay with certain psykers any more than BT, the Space Wolves Rune Priest is just an idea I'm considering, I can always take the Wolves without the Priest. The line of thought is with the BT, or one of the same opinion regarding psykers, currently accept Astropaths and Navigators, but if they were to ever tolerate a psyker in their midst, a Rune Priest would be before a Librarian. They would never have one of their own of course, :cuss that.

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

 

 

 

Also, on the note of GK being an exception to the "no psykers" it also mentioned Inquisitors and the like cannot actually take any powers if they wish to ally BT. As far as Codex: GK, it didn't exist at the time of Codex: BT's printing, it was still Codex: Daemonhunters.

 

 

It says;

 

No model with Psychic Powers can be fielded as an ally to the Black Templars and they will not fight as an ally to an army that includes any models with psychic powers, with the exception of Grey Knights Space Marines.

 

So, if your PD is Templars, no GK even. You can take BT allies if your PD is GK and you don't include a Psyker Inquisitor or a Mystic. Ginger techno-chimps are fine though, evidently.

[RazorDaemon]

You can take GK as allies for BT, and the entire point is that rule may be gone anyway, the upcoming Codex only saying a psyker can't be part of the BT army itself. As far as what we have been told at least.

[Marshal_Roujakis]

I think the reason behind the, "GK's are your friends..." ideology is that GK are considered the mot purest, most Elite out of all Space Marines. To say you do not want to fight with one, just because he is a filthy Psyker will probably have your entire Chapter under surveilance for threat of Heresy, and Templars don't want that since if they gather into more than 1000 Marines to watch a 40k Blood Bowl and an Inquisitor counts the number of tickets bought by Templars, we might get a repeat of Badab.... so as much as possible keep the GK collectives happy by making sure they can ask the Heirs of Sigismund for help when they need to...

That and Graham McNiel wrote both C:BT and C: Daemohunters at the time... profit increase by allying 2 armies

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

I think the reason behind the, "GK's are your friends..." ideology is that GK are considered the mot purest, most Elite out of all Space Marines. To say you do not want to fight with one, just because he is a filthy Psyker will probably have your entire Chapter under surveilance for threat of Heresy, and Templars don't want that since if they gather into more than 1000 Marines to watch a 40k Blood Bowl and an Inquisitor counts the number of tickets bought by Templars, we might get a repeat of Badab.... so as much as possible keep the GK collectives happy by making sure they can ask the Heirs of Sigismund for help when they need to...

That and Graham McNiel wrote both C:BT and C: Daemohunters at the time... profit increase by allying 2 armies

And refusing to work with an Inquisitor, who happens to be a Psyker, gets you what?

I could believe that they didn't want Inquisitors poking around, hence the prohibition, but the prohibition only applies (applied) to Psyker Inquisitors.

And no, you can't currently take GK allies if your PD is BT. Taking BT allies with a GK PD is currently the only method of getting a Psyker into a BT army. The rule is pretty clear. At least to me it is. Maybe I'll take it to O.R.

[RazorDaemon]

I think the reason behind the, "GK's are your friends..." ideology is that GK are considered the mot purest, most Elite out of all Space Marines. To say you do not want to fight with one, just because he is a filthy Psyker will probably have your entire Chapter under surveilance for threat of Heresy, and Templars don't want that since if they gather into more than 1000 Marines to watch a 40k Blood Bowl and an Inquisitor counts the number of tickets bought by Templars, we might get a repeat of Badab.... so as much as possible keep the GK collectives happy by making sure they can ask the Heirs of Sigismund for help when they need to...

That and Graham McNiel wrote both C:BT and C: Daemohunters at the time... profit increase by allying 2 armies

And refusing to work with an Inquisitor, who happens to be a Psyker, gets you what?

I could believe that they didn't want Inquisitors poking around, hence the prohibition, but the prohibition only applies (applied) to Psyker Inquisitors.

And no, you can't currently take GK allies if your PD is BT. Taking BT allies with a GK PD is currently the only method of getting a Psyker into a BT army. The rule is pretty clear. At least to me it is. Maybe I'll take it to O.R.

you quoted it yourself, Grey Knights are an exception to the rule. Grey Knights (not Daemonhunters, just Grey Knights which were part of the Daemonhunters codex at the time) can be taken as an ally to a Black Templar Army and Black Templars can be taken as allies to a Daemonhunter/Grey Knight Army, so long as there are no units with Psychic powers that are not Grey Knights. That last note of the GK exception doesn't apply to only one part of the sentence it follows, it does in fact apply to the entire sentence, that was intentional.

Edit: Just to further clear it up, the Daemonhunter Codex had a section specifically outlining Allies, because the main Rule Book at the time was lacking in the Allies department. It says "Daemonhunters units can be included as allies in any of the following Codex armies: Space Marines, including variant armies such as Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Black Templars." It then goes on to IG and Sisters and gives the Allies force chart limitations.

[Marshal_Roujakis]

I think the reason behind the, "GK's are your friends..." ideology is that GK are considered the mot purest, most Elite out of all Space Marines. To say you do not want to fight with one, just because he is a filthy Psyker will probably have your entire Chapter under surveilance for threat of Heresy, and Templars don't want that since if they gather into more than 1000 Marines to watch a 40k Blood Bowl and an Inquisitor counts the number of tickets bought by Templars, we might get a repeat of Badab.... so as much as possible keep the GK collectives happy by making sure they can ask the Heirs of Sigismund for help when they need to...

That and Graham McNiel wrote both C:BT and C: Daemohunters at the time... profit increase by allying 2 armies

And refusing to work with an Inquisitor, who happens to be a Psyker, gets you what?

I could believe that they didn't want Inquisitors poking around, hence the prohibition, but the prohibition only applies (applied) to Psyker Inquisitors.

And no, you can't currently take GK allies if your PD is BT. Taking BT allies with a GK PD is currently the only method of getting a Psyker into a BT army. The rule is pretty clear. At least to me it is. Maybe I'll take it to O.R.

Inquisitors as AD-B have pointed out in the latest BT book, Armageddon, that Inquisitors isn't one big band, they are individuals given power by the Ordos they respectively belong in... so a Templar may say no to an Inquisitor and definitely say "Never!!!" to a Psychic one...

Templars may choose to ally with Inquisitors if they want to, and Inquisitors may poke all they want... no individual can thwart 6000+ Templars... GK though have means of communicating back to a single planetary household called Titan, Titan houses more than 3000 GK, and given their over the top elite Status I think they may become a threat even to the Black Templars.

So a Templar may resist aid from a Grey Knight and the Templars will Crusade on their own, hence BT being the PD, but if a Grey Knight force requires the aid of a Black Templar Crusade, they are mandated, and cannot refuse... since GK missions most of the time are more fundamental even than a Templar Crusade, and refusing the GK in their call for reinforcements without significant reason, usually results in being targetted by the Grey Knights suspicions.

edit: me being a grammer freak...

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

But they'll happily risk being declared Traitoris Extremis because they don't like Coteaz's fancy mind tricks? It's established that a single ][ can have a Chapter declared renegade. 

 

The part about why they might ally with GK makes perfect sense though.

PS. I started an O.R thread to avoid cluttering this one any further.

[Acebaur]

@Razor:So your Templars are:

1-Okay with certain Psykers.

2- Not Black? Suspicious......

'Okay' Psykers can be devided into 3 categories:

-Astropaths

-Navigators

-Dead ones.

Not Black, because they are successor, like Red Templars and White Templars (likely, not 100% confirmed) are successors of BT. They are not okay with certain psykers any more than BT, the Space Wolves Rune Priest is just an idea I'm considering, I can always take the Wolves without the Priest. The line of thought is with the BT, or one of the same opinion regarding psykers, currently accept Astropaths and Navigators, but if they were to ever tolerate a psyker in their midst, a Rune Priest would be before a Librarian. They would never have one of their own of course, :cuss that.

Red and white Templars are not successors of Black Templars. They are possibly IF successors and both are codex adherent. Templars have no known successors as they are a successor themselves and they do not usually have further successors.

As to why the Templars could ally with GK psykers and not anyone else. I think the answer is simple. GK as far as anyone knows do not exist much like the LotD. When you include them in your army both are really just showing up unbidden to help where it needs it. Where as including another SM psyker would likely be more of a collaboration between the chapters. That's probably not the actual reason the writer did what he did, but it's fluffy at least ;)

[RazorDaemon]

@Razor:So your Templars are:

1-Okay with certain Psykers.

2- Not Black? Suspicious......

'Okay' Psykers can be devided into 3 categories:

-Astropaths

-Navigators

-Dead ones.

Not Black, because they are successor, like Red Templars and White Templars (likely, not 100% confirmed) are successors of BT. They are not okay with certain psykers any more than BT, the Space Wolves Rune Priest is just an idea I'm considering, I can always take the Wolves without the Priest. The line of thought is with the BT, or one of the same opinion regarding psykers, currently accept Astropaths and Navigators, but if they were to ever tolerate a psyker in their midst, a Rune Priest would be before a Librarian. They would never have one of their own of course, :cuss that.

Red and white Templars are not successors of Black Templars. They are possibly IF successors and both are codex adherent. Templars have no known successors as they are a successor themselves and they do not usually have further successors.

As to why the Templars could ally with GK psykers and not anyone else. I think the answer is simple. GK as far as anyone knows do not exist much like the LotD. When you include them in your army both are really just showing up unbidden to help where it needs it. Where as including another SM psyker would likely be more of a collaboration between the chapters. That's probably not the actual reason the writer did what he did, but it's fluffy at least

The Red and White Templars' parent chapter are unknown, it is just rumored/theorized to be BT, it can't or at least hasn't been proven or disproven.

[Honda]

If they close their eyes and wrinkle their forehead, I don't care who they are, we're burning them.

 

KISS

[Acebaur]

 

The Red and White Templars' parent chapter are unknown, it is just rumored/theorized to be BT, it can't or at least hasn't been proven or disproven.

 

Well Lexicanum sites them as Possibly IF and confirmed IF.  The Warhammer wiki is notoriously full of BS because no one bothers to check sources before posting information. 

 

In actuality they are likely simply color schemes most likely created for How to Paint a Space Marine and/or this poster 

 

http://hippiefreakeater.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/space-marine-poster-big.jpg

 

Regardless, we are rather off topic. .....

 

BURN the Witches!!!!! :lol:

[Firepower]

That chart always disappoints me.  There are so few Chapters where the artists actually got creative with their choice of palette.

 

Of course Templars don't exactly on that list...black and white isn't necessarily 'outside the box' :teehee:

[RazorDaemon]

 

 

The Red and White Templars' parent chapter are unknown, it is just rumored/theorized to be BT, it can't or at least hasn't been proven or disproven.

 

Well Lexicanum sites them as Possibly IF and confirmed IF.  The Warhammer wiki is notoriously full of BS because no one bothers to check sources before posting information. 

Regardless of their gene-seed, my own chapter is a BT successor. I have checked, successors of a successor chapter is fine, Dark Sons came from Novamarines, Mantis Warriors came from Marauders and Marines Errant came from Eagle Warriors, just to name a few.

[d3m01iti0n]

I dont see many people paint the BT backpack vents gunmetal, ala that GW art (also in the BT book). I do :)