So...

[Grey Mage]

Yes, since alot of working with the inmaterium is by its very nature.... immaterial.... it can be hard to *see* the background stuff that its all based on, and when it comes to that its really the most important part for the evil meter.

 

Since evil meters tend to be other psykers.... how can you trust us?

So here comes the stabbing, and the burning, and the beheading so on. *shrugs* I get that.

[RazorDaemon]

Another example of this line of thought is DnD type classes. We have spell casters that some use a focus such as a wand to channel his spells, or another that has to prepare spells that are linked to a book that he is able to cast, yet another may use a series of incantations and may only need a small trinket as a focus, yet another is able to call out latent magic from nature around him possibly using a staff. Each class has a different focus, a different incarnation and style of magic, but it is all still magic, as they are magic users.

To a Warrior or Barbarian, who the hell cares, is glowy magic :cuss and they don't like it.

[Firepower]

Have to agree with what Ace said earlier: it's amazing that this thread turned into a serious debate and discussion, especially in the BT subforum of all places :teehee:  Even if I did contribute significantly.

[hart3856]

RazorDaemon you are a funny guy that response should totally be canon!! I laughed so hard reading that I had to try and explain psykers to my wife when she asked what I laughed at :)

[Marshall Bretton]

the only important distinction that needs to be made between different types of magicy people is this:

 

alive: bad, stab stab stab, burn burn burn

dead: good, but still stab stab stab, burn burn burn just in case :p

[Marshal_Roujakis]

Regardless of whats the name, unless its the Grey Knights (not Inquisitors), Astropaths, Navigators, the Primarchs or the Emperor himself... I think all Psykers must be shot, or cut their tongues out... or shoot them, then cut out their tongues, then shoot their tongues... (to a Space Wolf) then trim their scruffy beard...

[Grey Mage]

"NOT THE BEARD!!!"

[tvih]

See, that makes burning SW witches twice as effective - they lose their beards while at it too!

[Deadman Wade]

See, that makes burning SW witches twice as effective - they lose their beards while at it too!

And when I thought that I have enough SW throphies on my World Eaters, there you are with this awesome idea - burning space wolves beards :D

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

IIRC, there's a scene in either Prospero Burns or A Thousand Sons that shows Russ casting runes...

[Marshal Rohr]

Just so everyone knows, the 'liking' astropaths is new. Before only Navigators and Astropaths who had undergone rituals of penitence for their mutation were allowed to serve the chapter. 

[Marshal_Roujakis]

Heed nothing!!! Believe in what you are today, and strive forth to become what you wanted to be...

 

I still say no Psychic powers for me... upto you guys what you want to be...

[Algesan]

I wasn't expressing disbelief in your position, I was expressing disbelief that you were the only one to consider it an offense that we are in the same book as psychers

My apologies then, AFAIK, I'm the only one to post it online, but then I do not see all of the Internet.

[Firepower]

I wasn't expressing disbelief in your position, I was expressing disbelief that you were the only one to consider it an offense that we are in the same book as psychers

My apologies then, AFAIK, I'm the only one to post it online, but then I do not see all of the Internet.

In this subforum alone there have been a number of people to voice more or less the same opinion

[Algesan]

Nikea defined the difference between sorcery/witchcraft/heresy and psychic abilities.  It has never been overturned, just violated on numerous occasions by traitors and heretics.

 

I  am at the point that I leave my Rune Priests sitting on Fenris because I am sick of how often they are abused as allies. 

 

I have to agree with Firepower about you cubs today..... sheesh the psykers today are nothing the only way you really see the old devastation that could be wrought has to be in an Apocalypse formation.  Eldar have been sooooo watered down you would think that they are turning human.

 

I quoted the relevant bit and it is crystal clear....No Marine Psykers, except for the Grey Knights under special mandate.

 

 

Space Wolf psykers are like everyone else, dude. Only fans think they are different for no real reasons besides some inherent need to be special. 

 

Actually, they really don't fit under Nikea, because they aren't Librarians or have a Librarius.  True, Wolves use the warp for power just llke every other psyker, but then do do the Sisters, which was fairly clear under the older fluff.  "Acts of Faith" my behind, they are warp powers although perhaps ones granted by the Emperor.  I cannot comment on the White Scars, haven't read any of their fluff yet.

 

On the Wolves/Templar issue, the generic backstory or plot seed for the Wolves are Vikings and the Templars feudal knightly Orders.  Given that the feudal system evolved from Viking customs, Black Templars are actually "closer" to the Wolves in outlook and style than they are to most of the other Marine groups.

[Marshal Ommadon]

This is how I intend on playing with psykers.

 

I will allow myself to ally with an army that uses and fields pskyers, but I would also have this "house rule":

 

Untrustworthy Alliance

Any Black Templar unit or model(s) that are within 6" of an allied psyker, at the start of that player's movement phase, have to roll a D6 for each unit or model(s) found within range.  On a roll of a 6 the effected unit or model can only move and/or run, it may not shoot or assault that turn (they are too busy eyeing and making distance between them and the untrustworthy psyker).  Vehicles and Walkers are unaffected by this rule.  Note that this rule is only between the Black Templars and the allied psyker and not any other units, model(s), vehicles, or walkers.  Unless, of course, they have the psyker special rule.

 

Obviously I am basing this house rule off of the One Eye Open rule for Desperate Allies.  I think this rule really captures to fluff between Black Templars and psykers.  Black Templars will use them though they just don't trust them all too much...

[Grey Mage]

Just so everyone knows, the 'liking' astropaths is new. Before only Navigators and Astropaths who had undergone rituals of penitence for their mutation were allowed to serve the chapter. 

So you like having them around once theyve made up for their sins. Minor change in wording, only changes meaning if you want it to.

[Firepower]

On the Wolves/Templar issue, the generic backstory or plot seed for the Wolves are Vikings and the Templars feudal knightly Orders.  Given that the feudal system evolved from Viking customs, Black Templars are actually "closer" to the Wolves in outlook and style than they are to most of the other Marine groups.

That's a hell of a stretch. Saying that there is a historical link between the two historical groups which serve as the seed for two chapters' fluff is like the old Spaceballs "I am your father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate."

 

Templars take their name form the historical group, but their actual design/personality resembles several drastically different historical orders. And even then, it's a pointless and misleading exercise to use historical examples in analogies to the fiction of 40k.

[RazorDaemon]

On the Wolves/Templar issue, the generic backstory or plot seed for the Wolves are Vikings and the Templars feudal knightly Orders.  Given that the feudal system evolved from Viking customs, Black Templars are actually "closer" to the Wolves in outlook and style than they are to most of the other Marine groups.

 

Wat. Knights Templar and Knights Hospitaller =/= Vikings/Norse. Feudalism spread quickly as a defense against Viking raids in the wake of the crumbling Roman Empire, leaving many disjointed nations weakened that needed military help. Feudalism did NOT evolve in any way from Norse social life, as a matter of fact the Norse were more advanced and modern at that time than Feudal Europe, in a social sense not technological.

[Grey Mage]

A Knights Fief actually came from Roman customs, though the Carls were not entirely different in the idea that a liege took care of his best warriors and gave them stuff to support them while they bashed skulls for him.

[Firepower]

This has gotten so off topic.

I mean, it's the BT Subforum. Things get off topic all the time. But this is off topic in a serious, boring debate kinda way, not the fun power armored ducks and demon kittens sort of way

[Grey Mage]

*Hands firepower an Ale* Relax, itll be 2am soon.

[Honda]

I like the idea of using Rune Priests as candles...actually, I think that would work on any librarian. I just think we'd get better sparkles from the Rune Priest because of the food and what-not left in their beards.

[ArcticFox]

Well, the new fluff is in...

 

Templars revere astropaths because they're in direct contact with the Emperor... Ok I can see that.

 

But now, instead of us h ating all psykers, we only hate ROGUE psykers, so Librarians of all chapters are A-OK.  And, if Black Templars COULD have psykers among them, they'd accept them gladly....?  Hm.  So apparently the fluff has changed into we don't have Librarians because it's not in the genes anymore.

 

I kind of like this.  Makes things a lot smoother and more logical.  And I can use my Blood Ravens (*cough*Thousand Sons Successors*cough*) alongside my Templars now as a detatchment, WITH a Librarian.  This is a good thing.

 

Is it a bit of a retcon?  Yes, yes it is.  But it's a retcon I can live with.  What disturbs me more is that there's a strong implication that we're back down to 1,000 man chapter size, unless I Missed it somewhere...

[RazorDaemon]

Well, the new fluff is in...

Templars revere astropaths because they're in direct contact with the Emperor... Ok I can see that.

But now, instead of us h ating all psykers, we only hate ROGUE psykers, so Librarians of all chapters are A-OK. And, if Black Templars COULD have psykers among them, they'd accept them gladly....? Hm. So apparently the fluff has changed into we don't have Librarians because it's not in the genes anymore.

I kind of like this. Makes things a lot smoother and more logical. And I can use my Blood Ravens (*cough*Thousand Sons Successors*cough*) alongside my Templars now as a detatchment, WITH a Librarian. This is a good thing.

Is it a bit of a retcon? Yes, yes it is. But it's a retcon I can live with. What disturbs me more is that there's a strong implication that we're back down to 1,000 man chapter size, unless I Missed it somewhere...

Are you being cereal? Ok, ok, fine...I'll try really really hard to not shoot the librarian...morethantwice....and I will get really, really choked up when I do shoot him, honestly there may be tears. They may be trying to have Templars be more tolerant of psykers, but it is still fact that rogue psykers are actively hunted, and any psykers is not to be trusted.

We have men on the inside...yes "we only have 1,000 Space Marines" in our Chapter