Mirror-Match Centurions

[Storm Dragons 3rd Company]

Based on how they look, I'm assuming Centurions are going to be heavily armored in the way that Terminators are.  That would seem to make them vulnerable to their signature weapon, the grav-gun.  It seems likely that if two armies with Centurions face off, whichever set of them gets to shoot at the other first will destroy the target.  Having said that, is anyone giving any thought to how these mirror-matches will go?  Will it be everyone keeping their Centurions 6.5 inches from the current maximum range of the other Centurions?

[minigun762]

Gives you a good reason to consider the Lascannon option with that significant range boost.

[Storm Dragons 3rd Company]

Are you thinking to mix the unit up then.  Put in a few "ringers" with Lascannons and the rest with grav guns?  Rely on the missiles for anti-light infantry?  Maybe if it shoots krak missiles, that will be the weapon you use to engage enemy Centurions?

 

Dan

[Iron Father Ferrum]

This is a wasted argument, friend, because grav cannons are not the only grav weapon.  Drop podding Tacticals and Sternguard can carry grav guns, grav pistols, and combi-gravs, allowing them to conduct a first-turn unopposed grav-assault on opposing Centurions.  Plus, consider that the Centurion is still mightly susceptible to the previous King of MEQ Killing, the plasma gun.  They're still wounded on a 2+ and they still don't get an armor save for it. 

[Storm Dragons 3rd Company]

I wasn't trying for an argument - more looking for some musing on a hypothetical.  As far as I know, the Centurions will still be the only ones with the ability to supercharge their grav weapons or the only ones to carry them in that kind of quantity.  I realize that they have to worry about other gravguns, bikers, melta, plasma, lances, power fists, rending, chiggers, and whatever else bedevils their more-established brethren just like any other marine.  However, it strikes me that pointing out that they have other obvious nemeses out there doesn't really address my original theorizing about how they approach a scenario of having to deal with each other when those plasma  weapons or the gravgun toting Sternguard is just not handy.   My question presupposes that a certain scenario has developed and an answer which points out that there are other possible scenarios (which is undeniable), doesn't really address that; just like if I asked about anti-riptide shooting options - an answer that points out it can be assaulted doesn't really get to the meat of the question.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Fair enough.  To accept the premise, if it were me, I would simply deploy my Centurions away from my opponents' Centurions.  As you say, in a face-to-face, whoever shoots first wins, so I would attempt to take that variable out of the equation entirely.

[Captain Idaho]

Going back to the original question; "how will these mirror matches go", it'll be purely whoever shoots first wins, despite what Jon Bon Jovi might have you believe!

 

As such, to keep the upper hand in a game you're going to have to hit your opponent's best before they hit yours. Get that drop pod in to cripple the danger unit, get your bikers to move into 24" range and hit them with 3 grav guns (combi remember) before they're in 24" etc.

 

Hit them first and hard and win the game.

[minigun762]

Might point was not to mix and match but to consider the value of the more mundane Lascannon over the Grav Cannon

[Grey Mage]

Yeah... Id be less worried about other centurions and more worrieds about.... the rest of the enemy army.

[Storm Dragons 3rd Company]

I agree.  Podding Sternguard with combi-gravs is kind of a nightmare.  Likewise, I think it puts and end to pure Deathwing against vanilla Marines.  I only mentioned it because it seems that most of the time a unit is not quite this kill to itself.

[Stickeh]

I would be more worried about MSU bike squads with a couple of grav rifles and a combi, much greater movement, and therefore threat, range, relentless and getting a jink, all for less than half the points of a centurion squad!

[DarkGuard]

Grav weapons I think will be an interesting one. I can expect to see a lot of them, as a lot of people play Marines, and against Marines they are pretty spectacular. But bear in mind they'll do next to nothing against hordes with light armour (if the rules rumours are all correct). I doubt people will load up on loads of grav weapons because of that, but do make them a priority target, and I wouldn't put your heaviest unit up against them.

[minigun762]

Grav weapons have a lot of overlap with plasma, between the two I think plasma is the better all comer choice because you don't suffer against light infantry. S7 is enough to wound most things on 2's.

[Lysere]

Against most targets grav weapons and plasma weapons will perform similarly. The advantage of plasma is it's better range, and it stays effective against lightly armored targets, while the Grav suffers. If for whatever reason two identical squads of centurions are facing off with grav your best bet is to stay just out of their range and slide into some very heavy cover. Force them to come to you or else be denied a useful position.

 

The best way to make an enemy unit useless it to leave it trapped in a poor position. Staying there makes them unable to assist their brethren, but advancing forward will involve getting shot to pieces. Meanwhile pull your army in so your own centurions are in a supporting position against the enemy. Sooner or later he will have to move up. If they mess up and end up inside your threat range just slide up and shred them.

[Storm Dragons 3rd Company]

This from another Board where they are really worried about Centurions (and they seem most afraid of the Iron Warrior tactics coupled with Land Raiders and Techmarines) seems to be at least one answer to my original question.  To paraphrase:

 

 

Centurions with Tigerius. This is a 15 wound, majority T5, 2+/4++ dakka deathstar with TLed BS4 Grav Cannon shots. Let us look at Tigerius now. We can put him in a squad with up to 6 Centurions - 4 will probably be the sweet spot - and an allied Librarian. Why would we do that? To get Gates of Infinity. Tigerious takes Telekinisis and the other Libby takes Divination (for Prescience). Each turn you can bounce the squad 24" around the board (use Homing Beacons if you need to on various units)  It also has re-rolls to hit and everyone a has a 4++.  Now you have a unit that can move 24", then shoot another 24", all with BS4 Twin-Linked, and the Grav Amps for retools will take out any GEQ, MEQ, MC, or vehicle in the game. Gate and prescience are both blessings, so their is no Deny the Witch rolls.  This squad is fearless, has split fire, and can use its TL blotter shots against hordes with low armor saves instead of the grav when needed.

 

As a counter-Centurion unit, this is nasty because it can start well outside of the range of the enemy Centurions, Gate into range, and destroy the other Centurions without risking coming into the other team's grav weapon range.

[DarkGuard]

I personally don't see the need for the other Libby, Tiggy should easily be able to get Gate within 2 powers. But this is a great idea. I've been considering Centurions as a unit for Tiggy, so good to know I'm not the only one!