Best Chapter Tactics?

[Ishagu]

In my opinion...

1: White Scars

2: Imperial Fists (even more so if running CF with Pedro)

3: Ultramarines (the SC choices are best)

4: Salamanders

5: Iron Hands

6: Black Templar

7: Ravenguard

[Axagoras]

My ranking would be this

1: Imperial Fists (just all around good, 10% more hits with all bolt weapons, and tank huner for devs is amazing with their point drops)
2: Ultramarines (Very useful with Tigerius and Calgar. Dev doctrine can
be used turn 1 to hide dev squads out of LOS then move them into the
fire line untouched)
3: White Scars (Khan 48 bikes and 6 attack bikes with a few special weaps and a siege speeders or 2 for 1500, with all the ravenwing rules for 6 points less)
4: Salamanders (A bit of a nerf from vulkans ability but still good for 2 HF speeders, and free MC on all characters is really good. MC a combi wep to make it really useful)
5: Black Templar (not that great but decent anti psyker protection and good shot at winning challenges and sweeping up the enemy)
6: Iron Hands (IWND only effects cent sgts and ICs, and with most ICs being 2 wounds and vehicles dieing in 1-2 turns it wont change much, also 6+ fnp only effects 1/18th of your wounds suffered)
7: Ravenguard (assault based marines are just bad IMO)

[ZeBaron]

1) Ultramarines

2) Imperial Fists

3) White Scars

4) Salamanders

5) Iron Hands

6) Black Templars

7) Raven

[Captain Idaho]

I like Iron Hands as they can have an incredibly difficult army to kill potentially. Overall I think IF gun lines will be the most difficult to beat. Tank Hunters is just amazing.

[WarriorFish]

I'm torn between UM and IH for my Chapter. While they're UM successors and the abilities would fit them (and me) as well as using a couple of UM characters as counts-as I really like my tanks and IWND on Dreads would really help them out... Maybe I'll have to settle for taking supporting Techmarines and their newly nerfed servo harnesses to try and keep my Dreads ticking.

 

I'm a little disappointed that the relative quality of the tactics isn't more evenly balanced to create some real diversity, but then that could be the restriction of characters as much as anything else. On the other hand, that was probably too much to expect anyway :(

[Ishagu]

 

I like Iron Hands as they can have an incredibly difficult army to kill potentially. Overall I think IF gun lines will be the most difficult to beat. Tank Hunters is just amazing.

If you build the list around the IH chapter tactics the army can be very powerful.

Tacticals should now be run in groups of 5 imo.

Sgt with combi weapon and 1 special weapon. Can get really good combinations for no more than 95 points.

[MagicMan]

Groups of five would suck in killpoints games.

[d@n]

There All about the same(apart from the poor black templars ) Imo overall the codex seems to be not over or under powered, compared to the other hard back codices. It looks to me, that gw is trying very hard to do away with codex creep which is a Good thing as its nice to play none marine army's and not win due to having better rules, but because you played better.

[DarkGuard]

As everyone else has been ranking them:

 

1) White Scars - I loved Combat Tactics, and this is as close as you'll get to it this edition

2) Imperial Fists - Very solid rules on offer here. Lysander is still a beast in combat, and Pedro allows the use of scoring Sternguard

3) Ultramarines - I think these are solid, and great for a balanced army. Why is it above Salamanders? Tiggy is the reason. Better than Vulkan IMO, but it's a close run thing.

4) Salamanders - No longer need Vulkan to unlock most of their good stuff, Vulkan is still good though. TL flamers are still good, and MC weapons are great. Great force multiplier. If not for Tiggy, this would be 3rd for me.

5) Iron Hands - nice bonus to make an army tough, not spectular in my opinion, and no awesome special characters to use yet.

6) Black Templars - Helbrecht and Grimaldus are good. Crusader squads are good. Low down though for prohibiting Libbys.

7) Raven Guard - Had Stealth and Scouts been applied to jump infantry, this would be higher. Shrike is still over costed IMO.

 

Of course, early days, and these may well change during testing etc.

[d@n]

I don't know why people don't rate the rg tactics. There some powerful builds there

[DarkGuard]

But said builds would work a certain way, and be easy to counter with little adaption. The other abilities all supplement a normal Space Marine army, as well as providing alternate builds. Raven Guard only does the latter. The biggest disappointment is that jump infantry don't benefit from Stealth and Scouts, that would have really made their Chapter Tactics good.

[Bannus]

Indeed, most of the Chapter Tactics are "one-trick-ponies" that are only effective with certain, specific builds that limit them.

 

The IF and Ultramarine Chapter Tactics can work with a lot more varied armies than the other Chapter Tactics, making them more valuable.

 

 

I put the Iron Hands' Chapter Tactics at the very bottom. While some may "oooh" and "ahhh" at them, the sad fact is that the Dark Angels are better at this kind of build than the Iron Hands are - and have their own Chapter Tactics/bonuses to rub salt in the wound.

[Axagoras]

How are the Dark Angels better then Iron Hands for that build? The FNP bubble?

[d@n]

I dare you to come up with a list that the Iron hand traits don't benefit, Bannus

[Axagoras]

Like I said before dan a 6+ fnp only helps for every 18 wounds we suffer

[DarkGuard]

I do have to disagree with you there bannus. FnP 6+ and ITWND on characters and vehicles is actually pretty good, particularly as a "generic" set of tactics to take when you're not too certain what else to take. If you go vehicle heavy then it really benefits, but infantry heavy armies can also benefit from it with the FnP provided.

 

It's not amazing, true, but it's something.

[minigun762]

The fact that IH gives you some element of protection against Drakes is awesome. It's the equivalent of a Deny the Witch roll against S7 or less.

[Axagoras]

Darkguard when I run vehicles they usually go down in 1 turn, 2 at best form focused fire. So IWND doesnt come into effect there and even if it lives at 1 hp unless you roll a 5+ your still nearly dead.

[d@n]

Like I said before dan a 6+ fnp only helps for every 18 wounds we suffer

its the same for precision shots or rending ect and no one is complaining about getting them for nothing.

[Ishagu]

The downside of IH is lack of special characters.

 

The Ultra tactics are great, but Calgar makes the whole army BETTER than Fearless. And Tigarius is the best utility psyker any marine codex can field Imo...

 

The supplament might give them a unique character. Maybe a special tech marine. Have to wait and see

[Bannus]

Iron Hands get 6+ FNP which is....marginal at best.

 

The Dark Angels can take a banner that gives every unit with a model within its 24" bubble 5+ FNP - so that is better.

 

Iron Hands Characters (understand that this only 2+ wound characters that benefit - not single wound models) - so that is two characters that can gain back a wound if you roll a 5+ at the end of a turn.

 

Iron Hands vehicles and Dreadnoughts get IWND too - that is great, that is awesome.....

 

...but the Dark Angels can give their Techmarines a power field that provides a 4+ invulnerable save that can easily protect two Land Raiders or three or more Dreadnoughts.

 

Plus they have Grim Resolve, Inner Circle, etc.....

[minigun762]

But Bannus, DA is paying points for those upgrades, a lot in some cases. Whereas IH are free (except any opportunity cost) and not reliant on specific model placement.

[d@n]

Bannus. I don't know the dark angels rules specifically Work, but buying a banner that can be lost once the model holding it dies (the same goes for the powerfield) isn't as good as free itwnd and fnp. To put things in perspective for the same sort of points as those 2 land raiders and tech marine with power field, iron hands could get 50 sniper scouts and easily snipe the tech marines and standard bearer and the scouts will still have there cover saves and fnp regardless of which model dies. Having your whole army's tactics depending on 2 models isn't great.

[templargdt]

Marines is a shooting codex. Versus Tyranids, Daemons, IG-blobs, and various other melee stuff it is very important that you extract yourself from combat right before it is about to be your turn so that you can shoot whatever it is.

 

Hit&Run is not a rule meant for a melee army, it is a rule that primarily benefits a shooting army.

 

Example: Flyrant charges a Tactical squad, Sarge challenges then gets eaten leaving the other dudes alive. You then roll your Initiative check (66% success) and the remaining guys get free, allowing you to blast the Flyrant.

 

Example: Your attackbike squad charges an IG blob squad. Then in your melee turn and in his turn, the blob has to consolidate into melee, crunching itself into a tight package. At the end of your opponent's melee, you Hit&Run away so that in your following shooting phase, you can drop templates on the tightened blob

 

<Checks rule book> Yeah, it is an initiative test.  I thought of it like the old combat tactics.  Yes, that is very, very good to save your rear from things like Demon Princes, etc.  I still wouldn't rate that higher than Imperial Fists though.  As good as Iron Hands?  Not sure.  If you're running some bikers, yeah, I'd say better.  Definitely better than IH if you're running Khan.

 

I'd love to see an IH armor gunline behind an Aegis line duke it out with a scars list to see who comes out on top.  I think if it's biker scars, they probably win.  If it's Rhino born tacs, I think they probably lose.

 

The skyshield trick with the Sallies is nice, I hadn't thought of that.  But I'm skeptical.  You're still trying to shoot down AV 12 with STR 7 (roughly .67 HP/turn per 4 missile launcher squad.)  Oh, and your target has IWND on 3 HP.  If I'm running missile devastators for Flak, I'm taking Fists for tank hunters.  But I may look into buying a skyshield whenever I go to my next tournament. 

 

As much as I like the IH and IF tactics, I'm actually going to try out UM first, because I think Tigger is so incredibly good.  I'll be surprised if I ever run across a competitive UM list running anything besides him.  (I want to like Calgar, but I play around 1500 points.  I don't know what level I'd feel comfortable playing him at.  2K I guess.)

 

 

[Captain Idaho]

Venerable Dreadnoughts, Iron Clads and most tanks will be a hard nut to crack when used in numbers in Iron Hands armies. You can get 6 Venerable Dreadnoughts with assault cannons for 870pts, as a plain example.

 

Let's not forget Storm Ravens are vehicles too.

 

The Feel No Pain is just a little added bonus to frustrate opponents.

 

If I'm honest I don't know what else people expect their army to do on top of that?