Raven Guard Pre-Heresy Army

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

Hey all,

 

WIth the release of the new Marine kits, many Heresy bits are available that were...harder of me to obtain. Now through trade and such, I can make an attempt at a Pre-Heresy army I've wanted but held off on.

 

Now I'm bumping into questions. The mk6 armor, the Corvus armor, will be the backbone of the my army. (For obvious reasons) But the various mk6 releases of FW have shoulder pads with and without trim. I am not going to be uber strict on the make up on the project, but I would like some sort of consistency in the army.

 

Is there anything in the fluff I have missed detailing the two sets of shoulder pads (I have all the BL novels, but none of the limited edition rip-offs. I have most of the audio-books)

 

Here is the first test model I have done:

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i65/kieran_m/HH%20Raven%20Guard/1234731_10100596707176082_80761981_n_zps654f1dd2.jpg

 

 

Thanks for any advice and commentary,

 

WLK

[Kol Saresk]

I don't recall mention of trim or lack thereof. But IIRC, Deliverance Lost mentioned something like all of the Istvaan V survivors put a little skull on their shoulderpads. Maybe you could do something like that.

 

Or one pad trimmed and the other not.

[depthcharge12]

Heh

 

Look whos up late at night.

 

 

A Raven Gaurd and a Night Owl-er Lord lol :P

 

creatures of habit are we?

 

 

I thought mk6 had no shoulder trim on them and just had the one studded and one flat pad

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

@Kol: I am definitely planning on doing that on all my of sergeants, and the marines in the older marks (looking as there isnt a mk6 assault squad [with jump packs] that I'm aware of)

 

From what I remember of Deliverance Lost (I block out as much of that "novel" as I can), the majority of the mk6 suits went to the Raptors, the quick and dirty made Raven Guard. These suits will lack the small skulls on their pads as they werent present on Istvaan V.

 

@DC12: that was my belief as well, but the Mk6 Recon Marines have trim, as does one or two other of the FW shoulders pads. This left me confused and a little annoyed, so figured I'd ask here.

 

WLK

[ephrael]

MK V has a studded left shoulder pad and the right has no trim. MK VI generally has standard trim on both pads during the heresy or no trim, your choice really. The trim on plastic shoulder pads is pretty easy to remove if you are careful, I've done it myself lots of times.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

@Mikhail: I started to experiment with carving the trim off, and found my hands are not that steady. (My modeling skills are my weakest 40k link). I will contine to experiment and try, but the new Marine kit comes with a trimless pad. My local community is being very generous in trade (it helps that I bought the Sternguard kit for the sole purpose of bitz, more to trade) so far, so between them and ebay my brief days of chopping up pads badly may come to an end!

 

WLK

[ephrael]

I can probably trade you some FW ones if you come up short with your friends. Just send me a message if you need them. My hands shake pretty badly most days too. I just work very carefully.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

I can probably trade you some FW ones if you come up short with your friends. Just send me a message if you need them.

 

I will do so, thank you!

 

WLK

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

I do want to stress that this is a side, "slow burn" project.

 

What I mean by this is that I am going to be taking my time (I already have around 13k of Wolves, and 5-6k of 40k era Raven Guard). I am going to be adding a few models a month, nothing major, until the RG get a list on the series (rumor mill says we're book 3 I believe, so a half year easily). I am planning on building just Tactical Squads and Assault Squads (because the RG cant go too far wrong there) for now, and maybe a Terminator Squad...I know there is little to no mention of the RG having Terminators (that Im aware of), but the models are damn sweet. Though having a slow and purposeful unit doesnt shake the right way...

 

but to focus on the point, just the basics for now. waiting for some sweet FW lovin' before I board the Crazy Train for Deliverance.

 

WLK

[Captain Semper]

First of all good luck with your new project - Raven Guard rules!

Since you've chosen the Raven Guard, you may want to consider the RG upgrade pack from FW - quite a few interesting bits there... Also, regarding rims, my understanding is the same as Depthcharge12 - no rims for MkVI in general. However all armour types have been bastardised enough so anything goes... Just look at the Legion Champion - an amalgamation of armour marks on the same mini...

I think the time that everything was distinct and well defined is firmly in the past... For example, now all "Legion" armour types have studs (a MkV trademark up to a point) and shoulder pads? Literally anything goes...

I also thought that the Legion Recon squad was all Mk IV - not Mk VI... As far as I can tell, there is only one FW version of Mk VI and that's in the Spave Marines shop - not the HH one where there is none. Mk IV has rims but they are very thin compared to, say, Mk VII...

Again good luck your project!

[depthcharge12]

Hey check out templars crusade 01 on youtube.

 

He did a comission for his buddy for a command squad and a big tac squad I think for Raven Gaurd.

 

They look fantastic and have scavenged bits from Isstvaan 5, but take direction from his models maybe?

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

@Captain Semper: Hello again!

 

--I love the RG, they have been a close second in my heart for years. I have toyed with doing them on and off, and they are my current "back-up" 40k army.

--I have many of the RG upgrade sets (my 40k RG all sport the shoulder pads, scrounged from Ebay), and I am using the torsos for Sergeants and I plan on buying the backpacks in mass soon.

--You make a solid point on the armor, especially after Istvaan V. I plan on mixing and matching marks later down the line, as the project will surely grow bigger than I plan.

And yes, I agree that the exact modeling standards is in te past, yet I thought I would try and stick as close as possible, when possible

--Well pass me the dunce cap, your right about the Recon Marines. I must have swapped the roman numerals in my head when I read it off their site. Thats a relief.

 

And thanks, this is "fun" thing for me, a break from painting Wolves (I have added almost 9 more thunder wolves, so not safe there) . I cant wait to see the FW rules for the RG, and Corax of course

 

@DC12: Thanks, will check out in the proper part of the am

 

WLK

[Greyall]

Raven Guard models painted by FW have so far sported a red trim against black - also, no white up until now. Personally, black and red have become a bit tiresome, they're the uber cliché of Space Marine painting. It can be done right but can also result in a great mini going 'meh'. Much prefer your black and white version, mate.

 

Here's an exception on FW, though:

 

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-J-x-zhj_O1E/UZfTVw8I2sI/AAAAAAAADfk/Jy7B19QNT4g/s1600/raven+guard.jpg

 

Trim is black in this guy.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

One problem with the RG color scheme is that it's changed nearly every time they get any GW/FW attention. The RG topics in their subforum go over this in insane detail.

 

WLK

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

also, questions:

 

1) what mk is the bolter that comes in the RG set?

 

2) reviewing the HH army list, you can swap Recon Marines out of power armor and into carapace armor...meaning Scout armor. Has anybody tried this yet? This may mean a large(er) growth in my HH army as i have around 40 Scouts with no plans...

 

WLK

[depthcharge12]

In the upgrade pack, it appears that the RG DO NOT have a rimmed right shoulder pad.

Their bolters are the umbra ferrox pattern which you can still get from your friendly neighborhood forgworld :)

I think that the umbra ferrox, the umbra pattern bolter, and the tigurus pattern bolter match the RG asthetic.

As for the trim...do what pleases you. There are just so many companies out there, yes even RG during the heresy, that the trim wouldn't matter.

I personally like the black with red, but thats more of a DA thing. The white just seems so stark in comparison and would be hard to do on a black base color.

Maybe a matte grey color? Pick something you like

P.S. Lol WLK I didn't even realize I was in your sig and completely forgot that I had even said that about the Space Wolves haha I dont even know how to do sigs

[Captain Semper]

OK , in C:SM (i.e. post Heresy), the color of the shoulder pad rim corresponds to Company as per Codex Astartes. So 2nd Company yellow, 3rd Company red etc. The difference is that's only on one pad not both like the UMs. Obviously 1st Company makes heavy use of white, like both shoulder pads (and not just the rims) and even the hands - not to mention the helmets...

 

In FWs Castorel Novem Imperial Armour book, it depicts an assault squad - 4th squad 8th Company - where the Company/ Squad numbers are downplayed at best. while colors are not used at all - apart from white for the sergeant.

 

There is also a certain anarchy about the numbers positioning... Company number appears in some marines on the knee pads (moslty left) while some do not have it at all. One has it in very small fonts on the bottom corner of he right shoulder pad. The Squad number appears on the right shoulder pad in various positions (in the center of the Assault marking or on the corner of the shoulder pad in very small fonts. The rims appear metallic to me and certainly devoid of any vivid coloration. Sergeant and veteran leading the second combat squad have golden rims. Even some assault markings are strange in that instead of the stylised crossed arrows they are just crossed lines reminiscent of the Death Company - only in white instead of red.

 

I think the idea was to show a squad as it would be in "reality" with all the interchangeable armour components, battle repairs and general visual inconsistencies thatr you get after a while in a front line fighting force. The same principle prevails in the Betrayal depictions of Legions during the Heresy since the personal markings, veteran distinctions and colourations vary virtually from trooper to trooper... 

 

Now for the Heresy-era RG we do not have much to go on. The image above shows an all black marine with a strange badge on the knee that could be company marking (most likely imo) or campaign badge (less likely but still possible)...

 

The (probably obsolete by now) Index Astartes article of a decade or so ago, was giving some pre-Heresy markings but although I personally like them, I suggest you stay your hand and see which way FW will go with them... The idea of the Index Astartes article was to denote squad specialty with the colors and patterns. So half green shoulder pad was Tactical, two red triangles -one inverted - touching at the tip was Assault and a large yellow triangle with the base at the bottom of the shoulder pad was Devastator.

 

Now I bet these will be revisited as the number of specialist squads has increased and they are too colourful for a sombre chapter such as the RG.