Dark Angels Rumour of wings?

[Flake]

This kind of content would be more than enough for GW to put together a supplement worth the cash for the DA. I've been convinced for awhile now that the weird requirement that DA only being able to field RW and DW troops as the Primary Army was enacted to set the stage for a supplement where DW and RW are able to stand on their own more efficiently, and maybe be unlocked by generic IC's with the appropriate wargear.

[Brother dean]

[speculation]Stormwing (mentioned above) sounds like jump pack infantry possibly with breaching shields...  A "forlorn hope" specialized force for "Storming" fortifications...  And might explain how The Lion beat The Wolf King to that one guy inside his fortress and started the feud... [/speculation]

[Flake]

[speculation]Stormwing (mentioned above) sounds like jump pack infantry possibly with breaching shields...  A "forlorn hope" specialized force for "Storming" fortifications...  And might explain how The Lion beat The Wolf King to that one guy inside his fortress and started the feud... [/speculation]

I have a friend who plays Space Wolves and we jokingly argue about that all the time. He insists that the Lion cheated, willfully miscommunicated, jumped the gun, and then sucker punched Russ. I call it a proven strategy.

[Bryan Blaire]

Well, if the Deathwing did exist prior to and during the Heresy, then it would definitely run counter to the seeming FW rumor about the DW not existing during the Heresy and would actually allow for a Fallen Supplement based on the DA Codex.

[facmanpob]

A Deathwing was a predator on Caliban (not one of the great beasts, just a normal type of nasty beast) and is mentioned in Descent of Angels on P 192 or 193 I think. So it is possible that the name was used during the crusade to represent a form of attack representative of however a Deathwing attacked its foes.

 

This would represent a FW/BL retcon of pre-established fluff

[WGXH]

 

[speculation]Stormwing (mentioned above) sounds like jump pack infantry possibly with breaching shields...  A "forlorn hope" specialized force for "Storming" fortifications...  And might explain how The Lion beat The Wolf King to that one guy inside his fortress and started the feud... [/speculation]

I have a friend who plays Space Wolves and we jokingly argue about that all the time. He insists that the Lion cheated, willfully miscommunicated, jumped the gun, and then sucker punched Russ. I call it a proven strategy.

Point out two sucker punches were thrown, and one primarch walked away.

 

They love that.

[Phoebus]

I don't want to outright copy and paste the pertinent text, but here's basically what is said in "The Unremembered Empire":

 

The Dark Angels are shown with "beam and projectile weapons" unknown to "all other Legions" - even a well-studied Primarch like Guilliman.

 

The Dark Angels weren't just "The First"; they and predate the rest of the Legiones Astartes, and fought ALONE before the other Legions were even fielded, in not just the Unification Wars, but the Great Crusade as well!

 

The reason for the wings was due to that isolation. Guilliman reflects that the Legions specialize in a mode of warfare, but that because the Dark Angels operated alone, they needed to cover all contingencies with their own force. To Guilliman's knowledge, there are six such wings, "at subtle variance to the standard order of the Principia Bellicosa.” He is also aware of “secret orders and mysterious hierarchies" of knowledge, trust and authority with insignia independent of rank or company.

 

Three wings are mentioned in the novel:

1. The Deathwing, with two crossed swords as their emblem. The Dark Angel representing them wears "black artificer armour worked with red Martian gold," like the Lion - not Terminator armour. He is described as a "voted lieutenant". Another "veteran of the Deathwing", is shown - in power armour. Bottom line, we have yet to see a classic Deathwing Terminator.

 

2. The Dreadwing, with a skull-in-hourglass as their emblem. Their representative is described the same way as the Deathwing's in terms of attire. He, too, is referred to as a "voted lieutenant," but is later described as a "Dreadwing commander". Their skills are not described or implied (but their representative wields a war-axe).

 

3. The Stormwing, without a stated symbol. They are described as assault Marines, and feature in ship/void (as in, operating on the exterior of a starship) combat. They are shown using boarding shields; I'm almost certain they're the boarding assault/defense specialists of the Legion.

 

Note that Guilliman's musings simply outline that he knows of six wings, and that the wing structure goes back to the origins of the First Legion. That doesn't preclude "Deathwing" being a Calibanite title that was applied to a pre-existing formation. My guess is that the Ravenwing is also part of the six-wing structure, with the name and the Calibanite traditions again constituting the big change. It's doubtful, after all, that a Legion worried about addressing various specializations wouldn't have a "fast attack" formation before getting to Caliban (a century and a half into the Great Crusade!).

 

Finally, the Lion's armour reflects the organization of his Legion; all the "complex heraldry of the Dark Angels hierarchies, visible and invisible" connects to his central insignia, which is a "six-pointed hexagrammaton" (so a Star of David sort of symbol?). These hierarchies are described as “hosts, thrones and powers of the First Legion’s secret structure."

 

Cheers!

[Grotsmasha]

So what your saying is the CCW+Breached Shield unit I've been hanging out for could end up being a 1st Legion special!?!?!? :tu: :tu: :tu:

Consider me one happy chappy.

 

Cheers,

Jono

[Aradiel]

I don't want to outright copy and paste the pertinent text, but here's basically what is said in "The Unremembered Empire":

The Dark Angels are shown with "beam and projectile weapons" unknown to "all other Legions" - even a well-studied Primarch like Guilliman.

The Dark Angels weren't just "The First"; they and predate the rest of the Legiones Astartes, and fought ALONE before the other Legions were even fielded, in not just the Unification Wars, but the Great Crusade as well!

The reason for the wings was due to that isolation. Guilliman reflects that the Legions specialize in a mode of warfare, but that because the Dark Angels operated alone, they needed to cover all contingencies with their own force. To Guilliman's knowledge, there are six such wings, "at subtle variance to the standard order of the Principia Bellicosa.” He is also aware of “secret orders and mysterious hierarchies" of knowledge, trust and authority with insignia independent of rank or company.

Three wings are mentioned in the novel:

1. The Deathwing, with two crossed swords as their emblem. The Dark Angel representing them wears "black artificer armour worked with red Martian gold," like the Lion - not Terminator armour. He is described as a "voted lieutenant". Another "veteran of the Deathwing", is shown - in power armour. Bottom line, we have yet to see a classic Deathwing Terminator.

2. The Dreadwing, with a skull-in-hourglass as their emblem. Their representative is described the same way as the Deathwing's in terms of attire. He, too, is referred to as a "voted lieutenant," but is later described as a "Dreadwing commander". Their skills are not described or implied (but their representative wields a war-axe).

3. The Stormwing, without a stated symbol. They are described as assault Marines, and feature in ship/void (as in, operating on the exterior of a starship) combat. They are shown using boarding shields; I'm almost certain they're the boarding assault/defense specialists of the Legion.

Note that Guilliman's musings simply outline that he knows of six wings, and that the wing structure goes back to the origins of the First Legion. That doesn't preclude "Deathwing" being a Calibanite title that was applied to a pre-existing formation. My guess is that the Ravenwing is also part of the six-wing structure, with the name and the Calibanite traditions again constituting the big change. It's doubtful, after all, that a Legion worried about addressing various specializations wouldn't have a "fast attack" formation before getting to Caliban (a century and a half into the Great Crusade!).

Finally, the Lion's armour reflects the organization of his Legion; all the "complex heraldry of the Dark Angels hierarchies, visible and invisible" connects to his central insignia, which is a "six-pointed hexagrammaton" (so a Star of David sort of symbol?). These hierarchies are described as “hosts, thrones and powers of the First Legion’s secret structure."

Cheers!

now you are making me want to get that novel

and i had promissed myself that gw had seen the last of my money. curses you dark angels, why did you have to be so awesome?

[facmanpob]

Now I want to put my heresy 1st Legion plans on hold again!!!!

[Spaced Hulk]

Phoebus, on 17 Oct 2013 - 15:55, said:

I don't want to outright copy and paste the pertinent text, but here's basically what is said in "The Unremembered Empire":

The Dark Angels are shown with "beam and projectile weapons" unknown to "all other Legions" - even a well-studied Primarch like Guilliman.

The Dark Angels weren't just "The First"; they and predate the rest of the Legiones Astartes, and fought ALONE before the other Legions were even fielded, in not just the Unification Wars, but the Great Crusade as well!

The reason for the wings was due to that isolation. Guilliman reflects that the Legions specialize in a mode of warfare, but that because the Dark Angels operated alone, they needed to cover all contingencies with their own force. To Guilliman's knowledge, there are six such wings, "at subtle variance to the standard order of the Principia Bellicosa.” He is also aware of “secret orders and mysterious hierarchies" of knowledge, trust and authority with insignia independent of rank or company.

Three wings are mentioned in the novel:

1. The Deathwing, with two crossed swords as their emblem. The Dark Angel representing them wears "black artificer armour worked with red Martian gold," like the Lion - not Terminator armour. He is described as a "voted lieutenant". Another "veteran of the Deathwing", is shown - in power armour. Bottom line, we have yet to see a classic Deathwing Terminator.

2. The Dreadwing, with a skull-in-hourglass as their emblem. Their representative is described the same way as the Deathwing's in terms of attire. He, too, is referred to as a "voted lieutenant," but is later described as a "Dreadwing commander". Their skills are not described or implied (but their representative wields a war-axe).

3. The Stormwing, without a stated symbol. They are described as assault Marines, and feature in ship/void (as in, operating on the exterior of a starship) combat. They are shown using boarding shields; I'm almost certain they're the boarding assault/defense specialists of the Legion.

Note that Guilliman's musings simply outline that he knows of six wings, and that the wing structure goes back to the origins of the First Legion. That doesn't preclude "Deathwing" being a Calibanite title that was applied to a pre-existing formation. My guess is that the Ravenwing is also part of the six-wing structure, with the name and the Calibanite traditions again constituting the big change. It's doubtful, after all, that a Legion worried about addressing various specializations wouldn't have a "fast attack" formation before getting to Caliban (a century and a half into the Great Crusade!).

Finally, the Lion's armour reflects the organization of his Legion; all the "complex heraldry of the Dark Angels hierarchies, visible and invisible" connects to his central insignia, which is a "six-pointed hexagrammaton" (so a Star of David sort of symbol?). These hierarchies are described as “hosts, thrones and powers of the First Legion’s secret structure."

Cheers!

now you are making me want to get that novel

Me too! I'm a bit behind on the HH books though. Last ones I read were Betrayer & Angel Exterminatus. Would I need to read Vulcan Lives & Mark of Calth before starting on Unremembered Empire?

[elphilo]

Ugh, damn you Phoebus. I was going to wait till the paperback comes out (Amazon says February 2014), but now I might have to part with more money for the hardback :(

[Phoebus]

Apologies to those whom I'm driving to spend more money! ;)

 

Spaced Hulk,

 

While I didn't enjoy 'Vulkan Lives' that much, it's rather integral to 'The Unremembered Empire'. Reading 'The Mark of Calth'... not so much, though 'Unremembered' does reference it.

[FerociousBeast]

The Dark Angels are a microcosm of all the Adeptus Astartes. They were the first legion. All legions that followed, followed in their footsteps.

They are codex adherent. They are codex divergent.

They are loyal to the Emperor. They betrayed the Emperor.

Some serve the Imperium. Some serve Chaos. Some serve only themselves.

They struggle to overcome their past.

They are at war eternally with their own brethren.

They are known for using power armored marines.

They are known for using terminators.

They are known for using bikes.

They are monks.

They are knights.

They are Space Marines. They are Dark Angels.

All Space Marine legions and chapters, loyal and traitor, cast a shadow that resembles the Dark Angels.

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/194227-what-will-the-blood-angels-codex-mean-for-our-codex/page-3?do=findComment&comment=2315611

[Spaced Hulk]

Apologies to those whom I'm driving to spend more money!

Spaced Hulk,

While I didn't enjoy 'Vulkan Lives' that much, it's rather integral to 'The Unremembered Empire'. Reading 'The Mark of Calth'... not so much, though 'Unremembered' does reference it.

That's what I thought. I've seen quite a few 'mixed' reviews for Vulcan Lives, and I'm not the biggest fan of Nick Kyme's writing anyway (although to be fair, I've only previously read some of his short stories and that was a while ago, so I'm probably doing him a disservice).

I know the basic premise (eg: Vulcan is captured by Curze after Isstvan V) and have also found out about Vulcan's secret. Is that enough to get me into Unremembered, or do I really need to know the complete plot? With the exception of books by a couple of select authors (basically ADB and Abnett) I wanted to avoid buying anymore HH books in anything other the original paperback format, and it's obviously going to be quite a while before Vulcan Lives gets released like that.

[Phoebus]

If you know all that, then I would say you know what 'Vulkan Lives' has to offer to 'The Unremembered Empire'. There's another plot that also ties in from that novel, which also deals with Vulkan and Curze, and features agents of the Cabal and a Word Bearer with a peculiar sense of honor.