Unremembered Empire....initial review

[Verity]

Dark Materials? What's this about?

If I read it correctly - supposed to be a reference the Philip Pullman's series "His Dark Materials", comprising of three novels, in which there's a knife that opens up doorways between worlds/cuts anything at all. The wielder of the knife loses two fingers in it's use, always. Really good trilogy, would recommend anyone who hasn't read it to check it out.

[Emperor's Furor]

 

I think the Emperor knew full well what Vulkan would turn out to be, all the back story in the FW book Massacre indicates he knew a lot, up to the point the Salamanders a long with the Alpha Legion and Space Wolves, during their inception, were kept secret and behind closed doors as opposed to the other legions which we fully integrated and celebrated. During their first battle that would make them renown at the time he kept uttering things related to being reborn from fire etc etc.

 

So the Emperor wanted to prevent anyone from seeing Vulkan rise up from a crater, reborn?

No, when the legions that would be the salamanders, alpha legion and space wolves were being formed, they were kept totally secret from anyone, including where they drew their marines from etc. Then the Salamanders first major battle proceeding the end of the unification of terra saw the XVIII go deep underground with mole devices made by the mechanicus, it took them ages and people thought they were dead and wiped out but the Emperor said "They shall not failed me, they will return from fire, thus shall it always be" To me that's either a major coincidence or the Emperor knew full well there future. They eventually returned, they started with 20,000 marines and returned with only 1000.

 

Vulkan also didn't immediately rejoin his legion, only the other Primarchs knew he'd returned, he stayed with the emperor for some years fighting by his side and being tutored by the Emperor himself. Kind of major when you consider some Primarchs were just dumped with their legion.

[Conn Eremon]

Considering Angron's time with the Emperor, yeah that is huge.

 

Interesting. Confirms that the Emperor had plans for his Primarchs/Legions, though I'm not sure Vulkan lived up to those plans, considering how much he supposedly changed his Legion.

[Greyall]

Whoa, indeed. It's awesome that Vulkan was so honoured, sounds like the Empy did have great things in mind for him, a la Magnus.

 

I assume, then, that the reason those Legions were behind closed curtains was due to the missions they undertook?

[Conn Eremon]

You know, I wonder. The Blood Angels have the longest natural lifespans. Does that extend to Sanguinius? If it does, it sounds like the Emperor believed that he would need Sanguinius longer than any of his brothers, barring the enthroned Magnus, for a time. After Horus, Russ and Dorn are gone, old age finally taking them, the Emperor will still need Sanguinius for a little while more.

 

But Vulkan, he would need forever.

[calgar101]

What if he accidentally made Vulkan a Perpetual? Still it is begs the question, why Vulkan? What was he intended for? So many questions!

[Conn Eremon]

It's entirely possible, perhaps even likely, that the Perpetual trait was not intended to pass over to any of the Primarchs.

[Emperor's Furor]

Vulkan didn't change his legion much, he just tempered their need for victorious self sacrifice with pragmatism.

[calgar101]

It just strikes me as odd that he would one a Perpetual and not them all. Perhaps Vulkan died at some point early and the Emperor brought him back, thus making him a Perpetual like how Cyrene was turned in to one? Again this just raises more questions. I do think thought that Vulkan will resurrect again before the Siege and he will do so at Terra. The gate keeper idea is a good one.

[Emperor's Furor]

Don't forget the Emperor came to Vulkan in visions several times, during Promethean Sun and also in Vulkan Lives. There was also a scene in a book where they sat down together and the Emperor said something a long the lines of he will be great because of his humanity or something, can't remember where I read it.

[calgar101]

Yeah, it seems the Emperor took great interest in Vulkan's life.

[Greyall]

Hmm, I'm with Guilliman on the Emperor, though he applied this to the Scattering: that kind of slip-ups by him aren't slip-ups at all, he must have been engineered to be a Perpetual.

[calgar101]

My thoughts on Guillimans The Emperor did it theory is that, the scattering was a last resort. The Chaos gods intended to destroy the Primarchs in their incubation pods but the Emperor stopped them and they were scattered instead.

[Emperor's Furor]

I think Vulkan may be the most under appreciated Primarch by the end of this series. When ever you read works and stuff about how the imperium praises the loyal Primarchs, it's Sanguinius, Dorn and Roboute they seem to get the biggest praise, by the end of this it may be Vulkan who has played as bigger role in securing the Imperium as any of his brothers, were as before he was simply ignored after Istvaan V.

[Conn Eremon]

Well if it's his humanity that made Vulkan so exceedingly special, then it makes his role in this book all the more tragic.

[Greyall]

Anyone else found that part where Guilly welcomes the other Astartes to Macragge incredibly cringeworthy? In a good way.

 

To see Astartes almost downright accusing Guilliman of trying to play Horus...ouch.

[hopkins]

i still thought bobby's dining table was touching

[Wade Garrett]

Vulkan is a Perpetual because Nick Kyme wanted his favorite Primarch to be a more shiny special snowflake than any of the others, and what he came up with was "Is immortal, has inside him blood of kings".

 

See also Ward, Matt and Liege, Spiritual.

[Verity]

So how do people feel about Gulliman's naivety? Or rather, his wish to believe the best of his brothers at all times, even when they've fallen to Chaos?

[Conn Eremon]

"Is immortal, has inside him blood of kings".

Yeah!

[Kol Saresk]

Very realistic and human. Look at how many people, you show them a son, sibling or parent who is doing something wrong, and they dig up every excuse they can think as to say that it's happening but "Johnny didn't do it".

[RapatoR]

Vulkan is a Perpetual because Nick Kyme wanted his favorite Primarch to be a more shiny special snowflake than any of the others, and what he came up with was "Is immortal, has inside him blood of kings".

 

See also Ward, Matt and Liege, Spiritual.

Wade I always liked your posts but I can`t help but shake my head on this one. I hope you are joking.

[Conn Eremon]

He didn't just make excuses, though. He blames Horus flat out. Internal monologue about how fast he proved himself unworthy of the Warmaster title.

[Kol Saresk]

 

 

Vulkan is a Perpetual because Nick Kyme wanted his favorite Primarch to be a more shiny special snowflake than any of the others, and what he came up with was "Is immortal, has inside him blood of kings".

 

See also Ward, Matt and Liege, Spiritual.

Wade I always liked your posts but I can`t help but shake my head on this one. I hope you are joking.

Kind of hard to deny the possibility. Not my personal opinion mind you, but I can't say "That isn't what happened", especially since I can't and don't know the motivation behind making him a Perpetual.

 

At the same time, look at the releases. We knew for forever and a half that Unremembered Empire was coming out. Meanwhile, Vulkan Lives sort of snuck up on us overnight. And they weren't exactly far apart either. Just a few months apart. And since Unremembered Empire apparently so long to write and drew Vulkan and Narek(with virtually almost different portrayals I might add; more than "different authors), I'm almost willing to bet it started out as Abnett's idea.

 

Think about it, when Vulkan escapes Curze, he's sane. Already cured of the insanity Curze forced upon him. Completely, one hundred percent, sane. But when we see him on Macragge, he has no mind left, except that which let him recognize Curze's presence and hunt it down.

 

Meanwhile, for most of Unremembered Empire, Narek ends up very similar to Dantioch, but where Dantioch is willing to renounce his Legion, Narek isn't. He still sees the Ultramarines and everyone else as the "enemies of his Legion".

 

But in his "first" portrayal in Vulkan Lives, he is nowhere near being a Loyalist. His view of the Emperor was basically "Yeah, I believe in the God-Emperor, and I hate his guts." Narek fully supported the Heresy. His problem was with the warp-taint and the bargaining with Chaos.

 

And these just aren't Night and Day portrayals. Everything seems to actually point to Unremembered Empire being written first and then Vulkan Lives being the "prologue" that explains Curze, the fulgurite and Vulkan.

 

Mind you, this is all speculation.

[Augustus]

I think that is a fair assessment, Kol.