Unremembered Empire....initial review

[Brother Captain Achilles]

Cormac I could not agree with you more, she also typifies the strengths that Ultramar strives for. Resilience, Courage, Honor. She walked into a room with The Night Haunter and her first reaction was to try and verbally tear him down. This doesnt work but that isnt the point, In that moment she had more cojones than 99.9% of the 500 worlds combined. 

 

Plus the Spaces Wolves actions are better understood in that moment. I dont read that as "that fleshy person bag is important to Guilliman and needs to be protected." That scenes reads far more to the tone of "A human that brave is worth defending."

 

also, Vazzy and I are co-consuls

I am so witty http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5q7yusy0f1qzpkdyo1_500.jpg

 

 

but you can be Treasurer.

[Legatus]

So, how can Guilliman have a 200 year old mom when the people of Macragge eschew modern luxury technology?

[Kol Saresk]

Whoever said she was two hundred years old?

[Brother Captain Achilles]

 

So, how can Guilliman have a 200 year old mom when the people of Macragge eschew modern luxury technology?

 

 

Its implied in one of her internal musings that she has taken Juvenants and surgeries to keep her alive.

[Vazzy]

Seriously though. Her and Lotara are like two of my new favorite characters. 

[Brother Captain Achilles]

Who's Lotara? Which book is she in?

 

 

ALSO,

How has NOBODY mentioned that Eldrad is in the game again and is moving pieces around that lead to Primarchs LIVING instead of dying?

 

[Wade Garrett]

So, how can Guilliman have a 200 year old mom when the people of Macragge eschew modern luxury technology?

The people as a whole may, but this is a Primarch's foster mother. If Rob wants juvenat treatments for Momma Guilliman...debate over.

 

Considering that Lorgar and Lion had their foster fathers turned into semi Astartes there is precedent...wait. Wait a minute.

 

DON'T YOU DO IT BLACK LIBRARY! DON'T! YOU LEAVE ROBOUTE'S MOM ALONE!

[Brother Captain Achilles]

 

DON'T YOU DO IT BLACK LIBRARY! DON'T! YOU LEAVE ROBOUTE'S MOM ALONE

 

 

"Where is Fulgrim?!?!?! I swear He is going to regret the day he messed with MY baby."

 

~ First Lady of the Order of "This Sister will Mess you UP." Canoness Euten after being woken from Stasis

[Kol Saresk]

Achilles, you need to read Betrayer and listen to the Butcher's Bails. She will change your life.

[WarSpirit]

 

So, how can Guilliman have a 200 year old mom when the people of Macragge eschew modern luxury technology?

The people as a whole may, but this is a Primarch's foster mother. If Rob wants juvenat treatments for Momma Guilliman...debate over.

 

Considering that Lorgar and Lion had their foster fathers turned into semi Astartes there is precedent...wait. Wait a minute.

 

DON'T YOU DO IT BLACK LIBRARY! DON'T! YOU LEAVE ROBOUTE'S MOM ALONE!

 

BL editor : No Wade, it's too late, mouahahahahhaha !

[Brother Captain Achilles]

Betrayer is next on my to read list, I will probably pick up Angron while I am at it. I've heard too much about how A D-B is the christ child of the great Bald Trinity of BL writers to not NEED to read his books. 

[Vazzy]

I'd marry Lotara. She's the best. Of all time. Ever. In the Galaxy. 

[GhostMalone]

ill agree for a ficticious female id be more than willing to kill for her

[Legatus]

 

 Its implied in one of her internal musings that she has taken Juvenants and surgeries to keep her alive.

 

 

 this is a Primarch's foster mother. If Rob wants juvenat treatments for Momma Guilliman...debate over.

 

It is not that the people of Macragge cannot afford luxury goods and modern technology. It is that they see its use as decadent and weak. Guilliman hadn't reformed the culture of Macragge to go easy on those weak newborns, and he had set up systems that benefit the working people, not a privileged aristocracy. To now make special exception for people close to him seems like a double standard. Not to mention being contrary to the cultural belief of that world.

[Brother Captain Achilles]

Legatus I apologize as I am not familiar with the books that lay out that he was against such measures being used in their entirety within the society of Ultramar? What is that from?

[Conn Eremon]

. . . *shrug* Not all that major a deal, doesn't really oppose that old fluff. It isn't like she's all that old, by 30k standards. Maybe a century, maybe a couple decades more. And clearly feeling every year of it.

[Wade Garrett]

What I'm fearful of is that given how the Heresy so far has been an extended session of "Kick Rob's feet out from under him. Kick him when he's down. If he starts to get up, kick him some more!" somebody will get the bright idea that Momma Guilliman should be corrupted by Chaos and betray Rob because of cockamie reasoning like "The Heresy is too brother, father, and son oriented! We have to add some STRONG FEMALE CHARACTERS and if we get the chance to kick Roboute Guilliman some more, that is an unexpected bonus."

 

While on the one hand I kind of see that point that by now, sons killing fathers, brothers killing brothers, and cousins killing nephews is a bit passé in the Heresy, LEAVE MOM OUT OF IT. I MEAN IT. MAKING MY WAR FACE RIGHT NOW ADB!

[GhostMalone]

id like momma guilliman to protect rob and maybe stay alive no corruption and just guide Rob I don't want to much of a smack down on him I think hes been picked on enough maybe we need to pick on corax some more maybe shatter his psyche

[Vazzy]

What I'm fearful of is that given how the Heresy so far has been an extended session of "Kick Rob's feet out from under him. Kick him when he's down. If he starts to get up, kick him some more!" somebody will get the bright idea that Momma Guilliman should be corrupted by Chaos and betray Rob because of cockamie reasoning like "The Heresy is too brother, father, and son oriented! We have to add some STRONG FEMALE CHARACTERS and if we get the chance to kick Roboute Guilliman some more, that is an unexpected bonus."

 

While on the one hand I kind of see that point that by now, sons killing fathers, brothers killing brothers, and cousins killing nephews is a bit passé in the Heresy, LEAVE MOM OUT OF IT. I MEAN IT. MAKING MY WAR FACE RIGHT NOW ADB!

Dude. If that happened. Black Library and anyone associated with that idea are going to burn. 

[Conn Eremon]

I'd love it if they'd just let her die of old age. She's already there. It wouldn't take long.

[Legatus]

Legatus I apologize as I am not familiar with the books that lay out that he was against such measures being used in their entirety within the society of Ultramar? What is that from?

 

It's from the Ultramarines' Index Astartes article.

 

"To be a citizen of Macragge was to live a life of discipline, self-denial and simplicity. The people viewed themselves as the true inheritors of Humanity's best traditions, shunning luxuries and occasion for leisure. Reliance on technological advancement was seen as bringing discord, weakness and a decline in moral values. This exercised a profound pull on surrounding systems which admired the discipline and order of Macragge."

 

That is strictly speaking a description of a pre-Guilliman Macragge, but we have no indication that he changed that part of their culture in his reforms.

 

Edit: But it is not like that is just a cute excentricity some people of macragge display. Apparently that is quite a defining and significant part of their lifestyle, seeing how their reputation in the nearby systems was based on it. For a high up official to just ignore such values would seem pretty elitist and as a double standard.

[Brother Captain Achilles]

 

For a high up official to just ignore such values would seem pretty elitist and as a double standard.

 

 

theoretical: Its not that her using such techniques were ignored, but that when weighed upon her usefulness some traditions needed to be set aside for the betterment of Macragge. I see it as such, Guilliman and Euten all sentimentality aside recognized her importance past the pride of never using a juvenant treatment or some minor bionics and therefore to better serve the 500 worlds she took part in their useage.

 

 

Again all theoretical, but its a decent enough explanation that IMHO it excuses her using them and simultaneously explains her age rather well.

[Conn Eremon]

If that was still the case, I'd still think this is a negligible exception. However, Unremembered Empire didn't really show that at all. Konor, for instance, clearly relied on a machine throughout his career. It's shown in Guilliman's mental wanderings as he uses the same machine, though it is done to highlight the quiet strengths Konor exhibited. Not a crutch, but a tool that made him all the better a ruler. Other than that, Macragge is clearly shown as a technologically advanced world, which uses it quite extensively.

 

I think what we have here is a misinterpretation. It seems like you took that quote to mean that their lack of reliance means lack of use, while it seems to be shown now not as a lack of use but as a lack of obsession or over-reliance. Using this machine to till the fields is okay, but be prepared for when it can't or won't work, rather than automatically starting with not using the machine because it won't always work.

[Marshal Rohr]

Maybe Macragge has really good healthcare systems and she just naturally lived longer?

[depthcharge12]

Maybe Macragge has really good healthcare systems and she just naturally lived longer?

 

Or maybe she had really good private healthcare being Roboute's "Mom"

 

but really this could turn into a political discussion :P