Ace Debonair Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 Heralds of the Great Gods - The Rift Lords Early History: Origins:"Snappy quote that sounds awesome and sets the tone." - Notable Rift Lord A typical marine of the Rift Lords warband. The Warband known as the Rift Lords are, in many respects, an enigma to Imperial researchers. It is hard to say for certain where they came from, whether the Rift Lords are a fallen Space Marine chapter, or a fragment from one of the original Legions. Even amongst the Warband itself, the truth is not widely known - indeed such discussions are considered pointless, as the geneseed in its original form was intended only as a tool of the False Emperor.Much of the early history of the warband is lost, even to them - though by chance or design is hard to say. If any of the original warband remains alive, they keep their pasts to themselves. It is known within the warband that the Rift Lords have always been devout followers of the Chaos Gods, and have always preferred brutal ambushes against foes rather than pitched battles. In a way, however, the true history of the Rift Lords begins with Maluk, their current leader. With his rise to power, the Rift Lords became more aggressive, - attacking Imperial forces more regularly and with greater ferocity. Maluk, however, was not a fool. Knowing full well the might the Imperium could bring to bear against the warband, he always targeted Imperial forces that were either weakened by conflict or otherwise unable to defend themselves, allowing the Rift Lords to remain undetected. The Rift Lords were a potent, hidden threat within the Segmentum Ultima, always in the shadows, biding their time before striking. Although there is no solid evidence, some Imperial records suggest that at their strongest, the Rift Lords likely numbered over one and a half thousand. Maluk was guided in his campaign by Keja, a wily sorcerer possessed of great intuition and cunning. It was through a combination of Maluk's ruthlessness and Keja's deadly insight that the Rift Lords were successful in prosecuting their hidden war and bringing glory to their Dark Gods. But the Gods are capricious, and will sometimes spite even their most devoted followers. Into the Shroud:"A hellish place. As though even the barren space was being tortured, twisted and made to feel pain. And now, our only hope of survival." - Riftmark Lucanis After what should have been a simple raid against a mostly unguarded Imperial mining complex on the planet of Pao, the Rift Lords had the misfortune of being ambushed by the Eldar. Though outnumbered, the Xeno forces fought bravely, keeping the Rift Lords pinned down and unable to evacuate. The battle persisted for the best part of a day, but without warning, the Eldar would retreat, as swiftly and silently as they had arrived. Perplexed, the Rift Lords made to leave, only to discover ships from Battlefleet Gardiana had detected them, and was amassing forces in orbit. Maluk immediately knew then that the Eldar had only ever planned to stall the Rift Lords and let the Imperium discover the once-phantom warband. Though they fled as swiftly as they could, Battlefleet Gardiana accounted for fully half of the Rift Lords' ships before they were out of firing distance. But the problems for the Warband were only just beginning. Each time the Rift Lords escaped from an Imperial force, be it Imperial Navy, Mechanicus fleets or Space Marines, another would seemingly appear from nowhere, forcing the warband to keep running to survive. This cycle of pursuit and evasion lasted for years, and constant evasion of Imperial forces had left the survivors haggard and weary. Eventually, the Rift Lords eventually arrived at a place the Imperium knew as the Shroud Stars. The Shroud Stars, north of the area known as the Dominion of Storms, were a number of barren planets and suns blanketed with harsh, unpredictable warp storms. Pursued by elements of both Battlefleet Mithrica and the Black Daggers Chapter of the Adeptus Astartes, the Rift Lords were left with the decision to either stand and fight to the death, or flee into the Shroud. Trusting in the Gods to provide, the Rift Lords escaped into the Shroud. Throughout the length and breadth of the Shroud Stars were the ruins of vessels. Some of them were ancient, dating back to the time of the Great Crusade. Others were more recent, bearing the badges of newly fledged Naval divisions. Xeno ships also littered the ruins, their designs as alien as their constructors. The only unifying factor was that each ship was a floating ruin, destroyed and torn apart through the long years spent in the perpetual warp storms of the Shroud. Even as they traversed the ceaseless tempest, the Rift Lords saw ancient, badly damaged ships being drawn through vast, focused funnels of warp energy. Those that were caught in these warp-vortexes were seemingly banished to the furthest reaches of space - although later the Warband would learn they also functioned to bring in new ships, launching them at deadly speed into the warp storms and drifting hulks. Navigating through the Shroud required all of the guile and skill of the Rift Lords, but they felt that finally, here was a place where the Imperium could not easily reach them. At the centre of the warp storms sat a great space hulk, desolate and empty. The Rift Lords boarded it and swept through the vast, abandoned forgeship with the practiced ease common to Astartes. In the heart of the ship they found a vast, decorated altar room, covered from floor to ceiling in runic writing detailing the magnificence of the Chaos Gods and promising great power to those who glorify them with all their heart and soul.In the room behind lay an even greater wonder - a daemon, bound within an elaborate golden cage. It whispered of how the Rift Lords could earn the favour of the Gods, and how they may even topple the dominion of the False Emperor. The daemon eventually revealed it could read the deadly warp storms, effectively granting the Rift Lords safe passage in and out of the Shroud, in exchange for prisoners taken during the Rift Lords' attacks.Filled with a newfound zeal, and convinced to a man that the Gods had planned this for them, the Rift Lords would be forever changed. Maluk and Keja begun planning to rebuild the warband, and how best to strike back at the hated Imperium. Recent History: "Quote that makes it plain the Rift Lords mean serious business" - Notable Rift Lord Revival: The Rift Lords re-emerged from the Shroud as a very different force. Appearing obliquely on different planets, small forces were given the mission to preach the virtues of the Great Gods to beleaguered Imperial citizens. Often the Rift Lords would hire bandits or other lawless forces to help create more chaos, and add weight to the illusion that The Emperor had deserted his people. The Rift Lords' success would come from fighting a hundred small battles with words, rather than single large battles with force of arms.Slowly, and after many years' work, isolated cities on many distant planets began forsaking the Imperial Creed altogether, and embracing the light of the Gods. From these converted cities the Rift Lords drew their newest recruits, transporting them back to the Shroud to undergo training and eventually the implantation of the gene-seed.Maluk and Keja's overall plan was deceptively simple - by tearing away the faith of the Imperial planets, they would be depriving the Imperium of one of it's strongest assets, and simultaneously increasing the power of the Gods. As the Warband began to regain its strength, Maluk organised missions further and further afield, sending small forces of Rift Lords all over the Segmentum, bringing more and more cities and planets into the fold. They were given sweeping objectives, such as the conversion or elimination of certain hives or population centres, and left to engineer the details. These missions were not always easy - detection by Imperial forces meant almost certain death, and targets unwilling to bend to the will of the Rift Lords presented the warband with many obstacles. As word of the Rift Lords' actions began to spread, Imperial presence around the sector containing the Shroud Stars began to thicken.Keja's gift of foresight worked well for Maluk, allowing his forces to target weakened Imperial armies, preying on the diminished formations like vultures picking at a carcass. But the real threat to the Rift Lords was the risk of open combat with other Astartes; equals to Rift Lords in both tactical acumen and cunning. Combat with Loyalist Space Marines always reaped a bitter toll on the Rift Lords, one Maluk was loath to pay. And over time, with more Chapters appearing in the north of Segmentum Ultima, the threat of extinction again loomed large for the Warband. Keja masterminded plans to attack the younger chapters before they could gain enough experience to match the veteran Rift Lords, aiming to mitigate the addition of fresh forces in the north. Although initially this plan met with some success, eventually the Rift Lords found themselves too weak in numbers to easily pursue such tactics.The Gods Provide: "Even unbelievers can further the glory of the Gods..." Firstblade Maluk However, the will of the Gods was not to be denied. Other warbands, weakened by endless combat with Imperial forces, were drawn towards or driven into the Shroud. Some of these were absorbed into the Rift Lords' ranks, but some were too stubborn to openly join the Rift Lords. Maluk, however, was shrewd enough to see that even these forces had their uses. He negotiated deals with these other warbands - they would be allowed to shelter within the Shroud Stars, and permitted to foster their strength if they were willing to embrace the worship of the Great Gods, and work alongside the Rift Lords at Maluk's command. Many Warbands accepted these terms, some openly, some warily. Knowing that some of the Chaos Lords within these warbands were as power-hungry and ambitious as himself, Maluk had two ways to supress rebellion. Firstly, none of these warbands had working forgeships - the only functioning forges were to be found on the Rift Lords' space hulk, Runefaust. Maluk could, if displeased, simply refuse to supply a force with arms and armour. Secondly, if threatened, Maluk could have the daemon aboard the Runefaust issue false guidance through the Shroud to the upstart warband, seeing them either destroyed or dispersed across the galaxy.The Rift Lords were able to use their new allies to deadly effect, committing them to battles against heavily defended Imperial bastions or even other Space Marine forces. Maluk and his emissaries were adept at motivating their allies into taking on these missions, some with promises of looting or revenge, others with the opportunity to honour their Gods by striking at the False Emperor's men. Keja's skill at foresight allowed Maluk to pick his fights with some care, striking only when the enemy was either worn down through combat or otherwise had lowered their guard. The reputation of the Rift Lords grew steadily throughout the upper echelons of the Imperium - they were known as zealous enemies who could strike at any time, from any angle. The Imperium is presently still unaware of the exact location of the Rift Lords' headquarters. Although recently Imperial forces have made experimental forays into the Shroud, the combination of vicious warp storms and orchestrated attacks by other Warbands mean the Rift Lords are still concealed from Imperial eyes, at least for now. Beliefs: "Preachy message from a recent convert to the faith of the Great Gods!" - Random convertThe Rift Lords believe fervently in the glory of the Great Gods of Chaos. Their great mission is to undermine the faith of the Imperium - a mission that seems virtually impossible. However, by sneaking small squads from planet to planet via civilian transports, moving like shadows from target to target, the Rift Lords chip away the faith of the Imperium in a thousand places.The way they portray the 'Great Gods' is key to their mission. The average Imperial citizen is loath to put his faith in the fearsome Gods of Chaos, so the Rift Lords have adopted a new approach, painting the Gods as beneficent deities, with command over virtues. Those who value honour are encouraged to worship Khorne, and seekers of wisdom are guided to Tzeentch. Prayers concerning personal ambitions or desires are to be entreated towards Slaanesh, and Nurgle is portrayed as the master of life, death - and immortality.When the Rift Lords set out to convert a planet, their preferred approach is to deploy small forces, sometimes as few as one squad per major city or hive on a planet. However, each squad contains at least one member of The Voice. These gifted orators dress in white armour and robes, whilst wearing a mask that covers all parts of their face save for their mouth. They are the ones that speak to the crowds, denouncing the Emperor's power and compelling people to put faith in the Great Gods. Members of The Voice keep apart from other members of the squad when in the cities, living alone and sometimes allowing Imperial Citizens to freely come and discuss religion with them. The Voice is responsible for forming and organising cults within the populations, and also doubles as a recruiter for any of the right age to join the Rift Lords. Other Rift Lords in the squads will calculate viable or necessary targets for attacks, carrying them out in secret where possible, and further reinforcing the idea the Emperor has forsaken the potential converts.Of some note is the surprisingly rigid discipline of the Rift Lords. Since the fateful events guiding the warband to the Shroud Stars, Maluk made it a personal duty to instil loyalty and devotion, not only to the Gods, but to the warband itself into his men. On missions, the Rift Lords conduct themselves with painstaking care, making sure every action they take can be portrayed as positive to watching citizens. For this reason, they keep their armour mostly plain, bearing only the most discreet marks of Chaos. Rift Lords take part in organised displays of worship, led by The Voice, who also encourages civilians to join the avatars of the Great Gods in prayer.It is of note that the Rift Lords are fanatically against monotheism within their warband. Any who strive too hard to please one God risk displeasing the rest, and are punished appropriately, with the grossest transgressions being punished by feeding the offender to the daemon aboard the Runefaust. The Rift Lords are also wary of other warbands who venerate only one of the Great Gods, decrying their perceived lack of vision. While Maluk will grudgingly allow such warbands to shelter within the Shroud, they are frequently tasked with the most difficult missions, or used as bait to deflect suspicions of Rift Lord involvement in high-profile systems. Geneseed: "The Gods give us many tests to pass. We can but assume this is another." - Preacher Savane of The Voice It is unknown exactly what geneseed the Rift Lords use. Some Imperial scholars postulate that the warband's geneseed comes from one of the traitor legions, most likely the Word Bearers. Others still speculate that the Rift Lords might well be renegade sons of a loyal Primarch. The modern warband certainly uses more than one source of geneseed, however, taking tithes from the vassal warbands under their care within the Shroud Stars in much the same way that the Adeptus Mechanicus takes tithes from loyalist Chapters. The only fact that can really be pinned down about the Rift Lords' geneseed is that in recent years, several members of the warband have succumbed to failures in various organs, seemingly at random. This trend is rare in the older Rift Lords, but has slowly become more and more prevalent amongst the newer recruits as they age and grow. Some within the warband suspect dwelling in the Shroud over such a long time has taken its toll on the geneseed, and others attribute the organ failure to a 'lack of faith', but the true cause of these failures is unknown. Organisation: "With care, one man may do the work of a hundred when toppling worlds." - Riftmark Kaliburn The insidious nature of the Rift Lords is perhaps best seen in the way they marshal their forces. While Maluk remains as the Firstblade, the ultimate authority within the warband, his main role is to dictate objectives to his four lieutenants, the Riftmarks. Each Riftmark is assumed to command roughly a quarter of the total of Maluk's forces. Their roles are largely to oversee campaigns, assigning squads of Rift Lords to their individual missions, and keeping an eye on all nearby Imperial forces during operations. The operations can be any scale, between targeting a specific world, or slowly poisoning the mind of an entire sector. The Riftmarks themselves seldom make planetfall outside of conducting combats, relying on squad leaders to relay information to him instead.Thanks to the dispersed, fractal nature of the Rift Lords, it is hard to put a reliable estimate on their numbers. Some sources assume the warband must be a very small force, numbering fewer than four hundred marines, while some others postulate at least nine hundred Rift Lords. While in reality the number is most probably somewhere in-between, precise enumeration of the warband remains an impossible task for the present.When combat is required of the Rift Lords, they are quick to call on the support of their allies - either cultists or other warbands that have been granted shelter within the Shroud. This serves a double purpose; the Rift Lords not only risk less of their own lives on the battlefield, but many attacks carried out under the supervision of the Rift Lords are attributed by the Imperium to other warbands, diverting the attention of the False Emperor's minions. Combat Doctrine: "Attacks the enemy do not foresee are ones they cannot guard against." - Keja the Sorcerer In battle, the Rift Lords often rely on the support of their vassal warbands, letting them engage the enemy as they see fit. However, when the Rift Lords themselves are forced to take the field, they prefer to dictate the terms of the engagement, often by springing ambushes on unsuspecting foes. Often this comes in the form of sudden ranged volleys, forcing the enemy to take cover and begin planning a counter-attack. This is when the trap is sprung - fast attacking units, deep-striking terminators or even looted drop-pods appear behind the enemy lines, catching unwary foes between two walls of advancing death. The Rift Lords learned many lessons in caution since escaping into the Shroud Stars. They never under-estimate other Astartes, and almost never engage them without the support of their vassal warbands. In these instances, the Rift Lords usually only appear in force once the battle is joined, striking at an unprotected flank. In return, Riftmarks and their forces often support faithful vassal warbands in missions of revenge or glory. Battlecry: "Glory to the Great Gods!"-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=Guess who's working on his Chaos faction again? I finally went back and had a look at how utterly outdated and screwed up the history of these guys was, and found it UNACCEPTABLE! So, after a bit of musing and some serious hack'n'slash rewriting, I've come up with this spiffy new and polished version. I've given out plenty of C&C over the years, and figure it's time for everyone else to get revenge have a fair shot at my scatterbrained ideas. So, if you guys can point out any dumb stuff, or plot holes, or bits that need explanation - this is adapted from my old version and I've learned I ALWAYS leave loose ends when I do that. So, that said, hope you enjoyed reading it, and feel free to fire the C&C artillery! EDIT: Typos. I am so bad at spelling sometimes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281399-it-the-rift-lords-2013/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDF Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 Found a typo! "the Rift Lords became more agressive" The rest seems good though. They're the spider in the centre of the web, sowing the seeds of heresy over a wide area. Mixed metaphors for the win! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281399-it-the-rift-lords-2013/#findComment-3485637 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Debonair Posted October 4, 2013 Author Share Posted October 4, 2013 Found a typo! "the Rift Lords became more agressive" The rest seems good though. They're the spider in the centre of the web, sowing the seeds of heresy over a wide area. Mixed metaphors for the win! Good catch! That is pretty much the Rift Lords in one neatly-blended metaphor, yeah. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281399-it-the-rift-lords-2013/#findComment-3485731 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 The Rift Lords were able to use their new allies to deadly effect, comitting them to battles against heavily defended Imperial bastions or even other Space Marine forces. I have been meaning to getting around to read some of your stories, so I'm glad you went back to the Lords of the Rift. All in all, good read. Most things I'd have to criticize it on are pretty minor, such as a bit of an overuse of the word 'great.' But I would add something to put their position in doubt, they're a tad bit too successful these days. I can already see one possibility for their fall, however. Their bound daemon. It's a daemon. They're chaotic and their favor is fickle. And whenever a warband needs 'culling,' who is the executioner? The daemon. That's ripe ground for a betrayal. Send this warband to its death, slave-god, it's getting too big for its britches. Aaaaaaaand backstab. Daemon has a new warband patron to play with for a millennia or two. Repeat as necessary. A hint that this process might be beginning, like the earliest stages of its development. That's odd, there's no wreckage. Are you sure you directed them here? Stop laughing so sinisterly, we've talked about that. Or you can come up with something on your own, because it is kind of your thing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281399-it-the-rift-lords-2013/#findComment-3485848 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffTibbetts Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013  These gifted orators dress in white armour and robes, whilst wearing a mask that covers all parts of their face save for their mouth.  That totally makes me think of The Mouth of Sauron from the Extended Edition of the Lord of the Rings movies. That dude was so disturbing and wonderful. I think it would me kind of amazing as a Chaos SM as well.  Question: Maybe I missed it but do they tend to look 'cleaner' than other CSM? Since they try to convey their message as something more wholesome than the usual fare? I think that's intriguing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281399-it-the-rift-lords-2013/#findComment-3485897 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heru Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 Typos everywhere... Â "likely numbered over one and a haf thousand" Â "saw ancient,badly damaged" Â "the Great Gods to beleagured Imperial citizens" Â "preying on the diminshed formations" "from planet to planet via civillian transports" Â "Maluk made it a personal duty to instill loyalty and devotion" Â "with the grossest trangressions being punished" Â "deadly effect, comitting them to battles against heavily defended" Â "motivating their allies into taking on these misions, some with promises" "between targetting a specific world" Â "the way they marshall their forces"Â Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281399-it-the-rift-lords-2013/#findComment-3485918 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Debonair Posted October 4, 2013 Author Share Posted October 4, 2013 The Rift Lords were able to use their new allies to deadly effect, comitting them to battles against heavily defended Imperial bastions or even other Space Marine forces. I have been meaning to getting around to read some of your stories, so I'm glad you went back to the Lords of the Rift. All in all, good read. Most things I'd have to criticize it on are pretty minor, such as a bit of an overuse of the word 'great.' Yup, I did use that word a lot. Like, nearly twenty times, counting all the references to 'Great Gods'. I'll take a look at it. But I would add something to put their position in doubt, they're a tad bit too successful these days. I can already see one possibility for their fall, however. Their bound daemon. It's a daemon. They're chaotic and their favor is fickle. And whenever a warband needs 'culling,' who is the executioner? The daemon. That's ripe ground for a betrayal. Send this warband to its death, slave-god, it's getting too big for its britches. Aaaaaaaand backstab. Daemon has a new warband patron to play with for a millennia or two. Repeat as necessary. A hint that this process might be beginning, like the earliest stages of its development. That's odd, there's no wreckage. Are you sure you directed them here? Stop laughing so sinisterly, we've talked about that. Or you can come up with something on your own, because it is kind of your thing. There's hints that the Rift Lords are living on borrowed time. They enjoyed early success and that was taken away from them. Their geneseed is of questionable longevity. The fact they're essentially bound to following a Daemon's whims, who could easily be as capricious as it's patron Gods... That and I like Chaos as a threat rather than 'loyalists only worse and doomed', so I thought I'd play the Rift Lords up a little. In reality they're not having the revolutionary effect they think they are, 'cause the galaxy is HUGE. These gifted orators dress in white armour and robes, whilst wearing a mask that covers all parts of their face save for their mouth. That totally makes me think of The Mouth of Sauron from the Extended Edition of the Lord of the Rings movies. That dude was so disturbing and wonderful. I think it would me kind of amazing as a Chaos SM as well. Pretty much the whole of my thought process in one. I also added featureless white masks because they're still creepy as anything while not necessarily being as obviously evil as jagged metal. Question: Maybe I missed it but do they tend to look 'cleaner' than other CSM? Since they try to convey their message as something more wholesome than the usual fare? I think that's intriguing. Yeah, there's a wee bit in the Beliefs section that mention the Rift Lords are pretty discreet with their Chaos symbolism. Heru: I'll go sort them typos out. This is what I get for typing up an IT in Notepad, huh? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281399-it-the-rift-lords-2013/#findComment-3485928 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Messor Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 Occupational hazard. I find notepad preserves code formatting better than an actual word processor that just wants to "fix" it all. Thoroughly enjoyed reading about the Rift Lords. Normally I have a hard time getting in to Traitor forces (probably why I've only written one), but these guys hooked me well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281399-it-the-rift-lords-2013/#findComment-3485933 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Debonair Posted October 4, 2013 Author Share Posted October 4, 2013 Occupational hazard. I find notepad preserves code formatting better than an actual word processor that just wants to "fix" it all. Thoroughly enjoyed reading about the Rift Lords. Normally I have a hard time getting in to Traitor forces (probably why I've only written one), but these guys hooked me well. Actually, I just wrote it in notepad 'cause I don't have Word. But it's a fair point! Also, glad you liked the Rift Lords. This update's been a little while in the making and it's good to see I at least made them interesting! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281399-it-the-rift-lords-2013/#findComment-3485935 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heru Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 If you have a decent browser, it should be underlining errors as soon as you paste it to the post box. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281399-it-the-rift-lords-2013/#findComment-3485939 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Debonair Posted October 4, 2013 Author Share Posted October 4, 2013 If you have a decent browser, it should be underlining errors as soon as you paste it to the post box. See, I thought it'd do that. Turns out that nope, not for me. Maybe I chanted the wrong litany at my computer again - that would probably account for it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281399-it-the-rift-lords-2013/#findComment-3485941 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 Actually, I just wrote it in notepad 'cause I don't have Word.It's official. We are each other. And you may have a point. I think I do tend to think of traitor forces as being less well off than loyalist ones, which might not be an entirely valid point of view. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281399-it-the-rift-lords-2013/#findComment-3485974 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Messor Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 It's certainly an idea I struggled against while working on my traitor force. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281399-it-the-rift-lords-2013/#findComment-3485982 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Debonair Posted October 5, 2013 Author Share Posted October 5, 2013 Actually, I just wrote it in notepad 'cause I don't have Word.It's official. We are each other. And you may have a point. I think I do tend to think of traitor forces as being less well off than loyalist ones, which might not be an entirely valid point of view. That's creepy, so I disagree. Also you haven't read much Pratchett whereas I read Discworld stuff daily. Daily. Renegade forces are almost always less well-off loyalists, which seems pretty fair - they're a normal Chapter sans regular supplies and recruits. Legion splinters should be rather better off, so at least some aspect of Chaos other than the Daemons can actually be a threat to Loyalists. I haven't decided what the Rift Lords are (and don't think it matters) but I like my 40k with a nice dash of Grimdark, and having the bad guys as underdogs is pretty much the worst idea in the history of writing. It's certainly an idea I struggled against while working on my traitor force. Yep. It's like there's a big 'you must be this underpowered to have Chaos' sign by the door or something. Loyalist Chapters get to have all sorts of neat quirks and fun times, whereas Traitor Chapters always become a harrowing story of running away and desperate survival in an uncaring galaxy and never again get to threaten anything as mighty as Loyalist Chapters. When the bad guys aren't a credible threat to the good guys, what's the point of having Chaos? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281399-it-the-rift-lords-2013/#findComment-3486325 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dosjetka Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 I haven't read any of the comments after the first post, so apologies if I missed any vital bits of info. Â Anyway, there's (perhaps surprisingly) little to say about the IA. I really enjoyed reading it and think that it is fine as is. It describes the warband well enough, but isn't too stretched out and wordy. All in all, an enjoyable read and perhaps one of your best efforts in the Liber ^_^ Â Cheers, Â Ludo Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281399-it-the-rift-lords-2013/#findComment-3493609 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malthe Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Since the other guys are being all nice and appreciative, I'll try to fill in for Nightrawen and ask some cruel but well-meaning questions. Â First of all I think there is too much happening at random in the history of the Rift Lords. Or at least too many things that seem random, because we're not given an explanation... Â Why do the Eldars suddenly butt in? Who does the Imperium manange to persue the Rift Lords so effectively when they havn't been able to do so before? How do the Rift Lords suddenly stubble upon the greatest hiding place since the Maelstrom? Why is that hiding place conveniently empty when they arrive, but fills up with willing CSM converts once the Lords settle down? How come there is a perfectly nice (unoccupied) Space Hulk in the center of said hiding place? Why is there a friendly daemon lodging in the Hulk, and why does it bother to help out the sorry lot of Lords? Why does it care to be locked up in a cage?Also it is a little too convenient that the Wonderful Space Hulk has a working forge, which is just waiting to put out goodies to the Rift Lords. Long story short: Your guys have it way to easy and you don't tell us why. Â Also you mention a few very important characters, but fail to flesh them out at all. Most notably Maluk, Keja and the ever so pleasent daemon that is hosting them. You gotta use these characters more effectively. Give them some traits, some history, some goals (beyond mindless murder, pillaging and converting heathen scum). Who are they, what do they really want and why did they end up where they are? There is a ton of potential here. Â Also, you skip the origins too lightly. It suppose its because you don't care to tell the history of who the chapter used to be, but want to focus on who they are now. Generally I very much approve of this method, as it saves you the trouble of making up a thousand years of history of little relevance. You might have be able to get away with it if you had spent some time telling us about your characters - the Iron Gods are a fantastic example of how to pull this off - or if your guys were a loyalist chapter just like any other loyalist chapter. But they aren't and you're not telling us why. Once again: Potential. Â Furthermore, and please don't take any offence, the Rift Lords are a little too bland. Right now they read like a mashup between the Red Cosairs and the Word Bearers - without the tasty characters and the intricate plot.I think adding character is what you need to make these guys really pop out. You have a lot of great elements, but some of them you don't utillize (the daemon) and some of them feels a little unconnected (the Voice croonies). I think adressing the previous points and the questions I have asked in this post would go a long way to remedy the slight blandness of your article.Finally, to sum up what should have been a shorter post, a tip on language.You write pretty well, and this is something you should take further advantage of. I have two suggestions:First off; go through your article and have a look at the tense it is written in. Right now you stubble between past tense, present tense and occationally perfect and pluperfect (I hope my dictionary is right on these two. I've never had to name those tenses in English before).Try to tighten it up and make sure there is a reason when you switch from one tense to another.Secondly; try to pick up to three metaphors and sprinkel them throughout the article. E.g. "the Rift Lords are spiders", in which case you would use words which connote spiders when describing the Rift Lords and their history and actions. Examples: Web (of influence, intrigues), draw in, spin, lull, fangs, poison... You get my drift.Try to eliminate any adjectives which doesn't fit with your chosen metaphors. Â What this does is keep you language coherent, by way of limitation. Also it keeps the reader intrigued since he/she will, more or less unconsiously, recognize these metaphors and apply them to the cognitive scheme with which he/she reads your article.It's an old trick, and it's very, very effective when used right (Oedipus is a good example of doing this well. Try reading it while looking for words which connote 'sailing' and the moon).Okay, this was the motherload. I hope it doesn't discourage you. I figured that since you're somewhat of a veteran on these boards you could take the full monty.Right now you're article is okay. But you could make it so much better and since you're not exactly new to this I think you should. We'll all like it more if you do ;)Â Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281399-it-the-rift-lords-2013/#findComment-3493699 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dosjetka Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 I've just read through Malthe's post and find myself agreeing with most things, which renders my post above his a bit useless. Ugh. I have to brush up on my C&C-giving and be a bit less nice to people I appreciate on these boards :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281399-it-the-rift-lords-2013/#findComment-3493707 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Debonair Posted October 13, 2013 Author Share Posted October 13, 2013 Aha, here we go! I wondered how the IT had gone so long without someone getting their teeth into it. The quote system is not my friend tonight, so I'll be answering Malthe's points the old fashioned way. Suddenly there's Eldar: I thought they could out-sneaky the sneaky guys convincingly, and by stalling the Rift Lords out in open warfare, turn them from an un-trackable threat to the Imperium to fugitives on the run. Suddenly competent Imperium: The idea is that the Imperium didn't have any actual leads on the existence of the Rift Lords until the Eldar kept them out in the open. If that doesn't come across I'll have another look at it. Rift Lords have it too easy: Suspiciously so, wouldn't you say? Almost as though someone (or perhaps some thing) planned it all that way from the beginning, in fact. Not fleshed out characters: Guilty as charged, and this ties into the above point. There's two things to add here: First, I actually have Maluk and Keja's stories, personalities and all that good stuff figured out, but I really don't want to turn this into IT: Those Two Guys. Also, I'm kinda conscious of the length - it's already got a pretty hefty word count! Second, I want the Rift Lords to actually look like a threat. Thus, the IT glosses over what would in fact be some serious problems and makes light of the remarkable coincidences. In hindsight, this was not my best idea. That said, a sidebar from the point of view of the Daemon would help clear up the lack of character and let me give some much-needed perspective on what's happening under the surface. To sum it up: The Daemon is using the Rift Lords a LOT more than the Rift Lords are using the Daemon, and is quite likely almost finished with them. When it has finished with the Rift Lords, I imagine things might be very different. Too many ideas: Haha, so very true. This is a common trait of mine. Incidentally, did you ever see the name of my Chapter underneath my profile pic? More early history: I see your point, but can't promise I'll expand much on this, or at least not right now. I might try to talk more about Maluk and his rise to power, if I can avoid swamping the IT with his history. Not Keja, though. I'm keeping his story to myself. Tense trouble: Again, guilty as charged. I'll see what I can do to fix this in my next update. Your dictionary may well be right, I'll have to look those words up myself! Tidy those metaphors: Fantastic idea. That would never, ever have occurred to me. Incidentally, nor would the spider metaphor, which is quite a nice one. The Motherload: I don't have that 'crushed from the inside out like something deep down went supernova' feeling that most heavy C&C's give me, so I'd say you handled it pretty well without beating me half to death in the process. Ludo: My IA's and IT are always here if you feel the need to practice being mean! I've had C&C from Heru Talon, Nightrawen, Octavulg and Apothete all in the same thread before, so I can probably take it. EDIT: I'm also glad you guys liked the IT enough to take time to read it. Next time I get some free time I'll have a go at updating the first post. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281399-it-the-rift-lords-2013/#findComment-3494090 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malthe Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 I'm glad you're appreciating critisism. Most people who've been here a while does that very well, so thumps up for proving that point :)Regarding your answers, I pretty much figured you respond this way. I'm sure you have your reasons and that you'll expand certain parts of your article to reveal some of them, just remember that in order to be intriguing 'writer-style', you actually have to tell us most of your secrets."I have a reason, but I'm not telling you because its secret and sneaky and cool!" is Liber mistake number one.  Rift Lords have it too easy: Suspiciously so, wouldn't you say? Almost as though someone (or perhaps some thing) planned it all that way from the beginning, in fact. I rest my case ;) You're making my imagination do all the work right now, mate. A little of that is fine - in fact it's wonderful - but this is too much. Give me something to work with!As pertains to the Eldar - it's not the how, but the why that's important. I know the Eldars are supposed to be enigmatic and super sneaky and stuff, but having them do stuff without telling us why is poor craftmanship.  Revealing secrets in a proper manner is actually what I find most difficult about the IA format. Ussually writers do it by changing point of view (but without necessarily elaborating on who's point of view the reader is following), but that's hard to do in an IA. Sidebars are about the only way I've seen it done well, so I think adding one might just be the solution to (some of) your troubles. Qoutes are also a possible way to do it, but that's a little trickier.Regarding the Origins section. I don't think you need to expand it. In fact I think cutting it down might be a better solution. Right now it says a lot, but tell us very little that we couldn't guess. Maybe try writting down a couple of points you want your origin section to tell us, the more specific the better. Then set yourself a word/character limit (say 4000 characters - that's 2000 fewer than you have right now) and make sure you get those points across.It's a fairly simple execise, and it does a great job of making sure you're actually spending your time writting what you want to be writting :)Finally, does anybody remember who did that IT called "Wings of Death [i think...]". I had it bookmarked from the Librarium, which is now naught but ash. One of the old Liber greats (Ferretta maybe?), if I recall correctly. It had a daemon, a weird area of space and was alround wonderful. Anyhow, if someone would be so kind as to point in the right direction, I think you should reread that. I'm sure you've done so before, but once more for inspiration might be nice :) If I remember correctly it had some nice bits from the daemon's perspective.Oh, and before I forget: I quite like where you're going with this. It's nice with an classic old-school IT without a lot of fancy gimmicks. I'm sure it'll turn out great! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281399-it-the-rift-lords-2013/#findComment-3494131 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Debonair Posted October 14, 2013 Author Share Posted October 14, 2013 Yeah, there's ways to deal with C&C. I take the view that anyone pointing out stuff they don't like is at least interested enough to pass comment, even if they tear my work into tiny tiny shreds and scatter them to the warp, and should at least be treated like someone trying to help. Quote system won't play nice with me again, so bear with me while I go old-school in my response once more. Eldar: I can easily add something about their hatred of Chaos and using the Imperium to basically do their dirty work for them in wiping out the Rift Lords. That's pretty much as far as I'd developed their motives and plan, after all. Mystery stuff: I really and honestly stumbled into the overly-mysterious-stuff by accident. Most of my work is typed late at night, so I'm usually really tired and fail to spot my own mistakes. If I have a sidebar from the point of view of the Daemon while it's arguing with Maluk, I can use that to clear things up. Origins: Most of that stuff is in there because if I leave it out someone else will ask 'but what about [insert event here]? Why are they [insert action here]?' One of the best and worst things about the Liber is how thorough we all are. That said, it is far too wordy for what it tells you, and will be trimmed back before I try and expand anything. Wings of Death: Ferrata's chapter was awesome, and not just because they were orange. As much as the Daemon in my IT is a key player, though, I really don't want to focus on him too much. Hopefully, again, the sidebar should help me balance things out. Where I'm going with this: Actually, there's plenty of gimmicks. They twist the perception of the Dark Gods into noble deities, they live in a ship's graveyard controlled by a daemon in a cage, and they can theoretically operate anywhere in the galaxy. That said, I'm glad you like it. When I can next get the time for a proper update (hopefully during the daytime ) I'll sit down and make a ton of changes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281399-it-the-rift-lords-2013/#findComment-3494477 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysimachus Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Hey Ace, nice to see some work on these guys, honestly anything to get the next phase of the Liber Campaign going so I can get my MA involved is great! To offer some ideas on the article structure:I think I’d introduce the article by focussing on the Rift Lords as they are now, describe them from the point of view of the tiny fraction that the Imperium actually knows about them i.e. just their recent history - small hidden squads sneaking about inciting rebellion a la the Alpha Legion, but with that lovely Word Bearer-ish twist of the religious ‘Voice’ characters turning populations to the glory of Chaos.Take the opportunity to highlight the nameless/faceless quality of ‘the Voice’; the idea that although there are obviously many of these preachers because they are in so many places at once, they might as well be one individual as far as the Imperium is concerned.Mention the area where they seem to be active (I’m assuming that although they spread out a lot, they are still within reasonable distance of the Shroud Stars? At least in the same Segmentum? Would be a bit too uber IMHO to have them able to reach every part of the Imperium) but make it clear from the Imperial view that no one knows exactly where they are, although Ordo Hereticus are looking into it. Also, the Ecclesiarchy and SoB would particularly hate the Rift Lords, they’re like chaos versions of the travelling Preachers/Confessors that roam the Imperium declaring the Emperor’s glory, surely they would have crossed paths, might make for some nice additional fluff, maybe a sidebar? Might even be nice to contrast the fire-and-brimstone death-and-duty style of the Imperium's religion with the almost more kindly, fatherly approach of the Voice(s)?Then go deeper, reveal more, start talking about their base of operations in the warp storm/ship graveyard, explain about Maluk, Keja, the caged Daemon but again, still being clear that all of this is unknown to the Imperium. In a sneakysneaky force like the RL, the characters should be shadowy figures, half-truths and myths.I don’t think you even need to mention where they came from before that except for a line or two ‘perhaps they were a Legion warband on the brink of extinction/a corrupted Chapter fleeing destruction/whatever’. Maybe hint that they could be AL gone religious, or WB gone sneaky, or anything really.Then go into the more usual Combat Doctrine, use of allies when they need to fight larger battles, etc, etc stuff.I think this might help to make the article flow more naturally.Also, I very much approve of Malthe’s spider analogy. As he said, weave it in where you can without overdoing it.Hope this is of some help!CheersLysimachus Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281399-it-the-rift-lords-2013/#findComment-3494739 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Debonair Posted October 14, 2013 Author Share Posted October 14, 2013 There's so much good stuff to take from the last few posts by you guys I might have to re-write the IT from the ground up just to accommodate them all. I'd better start making notes! EDIT: Seriously though, re-reading what I've written, there's definitely a lot that can be improved. This might take a while. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281399-it-the-rift-lords-2013/#findComment-3494843 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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