General Taylor Gained the Day

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

Just got two Leman Russes, three Chimeras, two Hellhounds and a Basilisk off that there t'internet. I don't really know too much about the Guard and how to compose a decent list so I was hoping that you guys might be able to give me some tips and hints as to how to make this lot into a 2k army.

[Hellios]

It would help if you told us about the following; your play-style, how you imagine the guard, what do you want the list to be able to do.

 

Basically, how do you like to play? How do you imagine your army should work?

 

What do you want it to do? Are you a friendly narrative forging kinda guy, or do you feel the need to drive all before you at national and international events? Into this also comes the topic of FW. How do you (and wherever you play) feel about FW lists and units.

 

First tip :D Get some infantry XD... Troops and a HQ.

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

Oh, right. I'm an assaulty kind of guy, but I have three choppy armies already so I want to do shooty.

 

I'm ambivalent on FW, will probably get some Sabres as I have a small apartment already drowning in Stormravens.

 

I was thinking to whack some Veterans in the Chimeras, take five infantry squads, two commissars and have two blob squads on backfield objectives.

[WarriorFish]

As Hellios said you need some infantry to add to those tanks for starters :P

 

Your general plan sounds pretty solid, what matters is how you upgrade them. I'm not sure if two blob squads is required though unless you're playing at higher points. What HQ will you take? Sounds like a Company Command Squad would be useful dishing out orders. Hellhounds are good and should sate your desire to rush forward and murder everything, what Russ variants do you have?

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

I'm unsure on that myself. I don't have them in my possession yet. I know there are three turrets and at least one is a Battle Tank. The other two are shorter. Maybe Demolishers? Not sure. 

 

So two blob squads would be extraneous?

 

I'm probably going to have a CCS as the HQ I take in most games, but I like the idea of running a Commissar Lord as a rogue Inquisitor. CCS seems to synergise better though.

[WarriorFish]

Yeah sounds like they're Demolishers, they could be Eradicators but that's a slim chance. A single blob squad can offer some resilience and secure home objectives, but a second limits you as that's a lot of men and points targeting a single enemy unit a turn. Guard are not about having a small number of units so the enemy can focus his fire easily - we're better with many units so for every unit we lose there's more still eager to avenge them! :D

 

The CCS is good for when you're making good use of infantry, such that it is often the superior choice without much doubt but the others can provide nifty uses and keep costs down and of course work very well as a secondary HQ to a CCS.

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

Hmm. Then maybe I'll thin out the Infantry Platoon and buy another Leman Russ...

 

How do we arm squads in the Guard? I'm looking at Flamer/Missile Launcher or Flamer/Lascannon. 

[WarriorFish]

Taking a special and heavy seems a little dated these days as most people leave it to the Marines who do it better. I prefer my heavy weapons in squads or on vehicles as that way they're either mobile or have weight of fire behind them, so my Infantry Squads take special weapons - my favourite being flamers and grenade launchers because they're cheap but effective.

 

Flamers are a potent weapon and conveniently negate BS rolls so are a good choice, but a single missile launcher at BS3 is a bit hit or miss (rather, mostly miss...). One shot weapons benefit from being in a squad with more weapons to compensate or backed up with orders, which can be a waste unless it is part of a blob squad. I've heard most say if you're going to go one shot then you may as well go Lascannon for the extra punch as Guard aren't struggling for blast weaponry which makes sense, so I'd say MLs are more of an additional support weapon.

[FashaTheDog]

Good news about your stuff is that you've got a nice motor pool, but the bad news is that unless you run the Armored Battle Group list, which is Forgeworld, you need corpses, I mean infantry.  For a good Guard general, they are interchangeable terms anyway.  The plan you have is good and a foundation of a solid collection of models. 

 

As for the specific variants, if what you get is not ideal you can see if you can find a turret with the weapon you want online; Forgeworld has some lovely options here for a variety of tastes (I am particularly fond of the Ryza patterns myself), but you could also find used or turret sprues as well.  The mounted weapons may require you to break off or cut for replacement and if you do this, consider magnetizing these so when you have that late night epiphany for list right before you doze off, you can swap out for any Leman Russ configuration.  More so than any other army, I have felt that modular vehicles are the key to a happy Guard player.

 

As for infantry weapons, I have always done right by lascannon and plasma gun armed infantry as very little stays more than 24" away from you anyway and the extra AP2 fire can always help.  I rarely move these three infantry squads as they form the fire base of my Codex army, although their Platoon Command often wanders off elsewhere.  I also like a three squad strong platoon with either meltaguns or flamers and a few power weapons scattered among the sergeants and Commissar(s).  Those two platoons only cost a little less than 600 points and gives me a solid block to work with.  Throwing in a flamer to an otherwise long ranged fire squad isn't a bad idea as the D3 S4 overwatch they provide is likely to be that unit's only attacks if they get charged, but I would throw those in if you have a few extra points.  Given the choice between missile launchers or lascannons, I tend towards lascannons because you can already lay down enough firepower to drop light infantry so the frag is often going to be passed on for the krak, at which point the lascannon is better.  When the new codex rolls out and flakk missiles become available then I might consider the versatility offered by the missile launcher, assuming that infantry squads get access to them (which would give them terrifying AA potential).  Ultimately, I would consider looking for a few online deals for some extra heavy and special weapons so you can swap them around for that fine tuning we Guard players love so much as everyone of us will have one or three opinions as to how to arm our walking bullet catchers and your mileage will likely vary as well.

 

Now once you get rolling, there are alternative lists from Forgeworld, one of which allows you to take Leman Russ as Troops, Elites, and HQ.  Considering what you have on the way, this list may be most appealing if you don't have a group with Forgeworld hangups.  I mention it as while you may not start there, knowing about it may give you a direction to work towards.  Other lists are the Elysian Drop Troops which are deep striking airborne Guard, Krieg who are your WWI trench fighters (they have two lists, one is the siege list, the other an assault list - defense and offense formations).  Krieg also has a tank list that features the Gorgon as a dedicated transport choice, and finally you have the three traitor Guard lists in vanilla, Khorne, and Nurgle flavors.  Like I said, worth knowing about now even if they are not on your immediate to get list, but worth thinking of for inspiration later on.

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

Maybe it would be helpful if I posted my intended 2k list, and you guys can tell me what's wrong with it. I'm not super-competitive and I'll probably never take this to a tournament, so uber-optimisation is not a concern. I would like to make a decent all-comers list though.

 

The basic theme is an OX Inquisitor and a small Guard force pressed into his, or maybe her (if I can find a decent mini), service.

 

HQ

Lord Commissar - Boltgun, Power Sword, Melta Bombs

 

Troops

Platoon Command Squad - Voxcaster

Infantry Squad - Commissar, Voxcaster, Flamer

2x Infantry Squads - Plasma Gun, Lascannon

2x Infantry Squads - Flamer

2 x Sabre Battery - 2 TL Autocannons

Sabre Battery - 2 TL Lascannons

 

Veteran Squad - 3 Plasma Guns, Chimera

Veteran Squad - 3 Plasma Guns, Chimera

Veteran Squad - 3 Meltaguns, Chimera

 

Fast Attack

2x Hellhound

 

Heavy Support

Leman Russ Squadron - 2x Battle Tanks

Basilisk

 

By my count this comes to 1,945 points.

[WarriorFish]

Looks good, my army was raised by an Inquisitor so is similar to yours :) I'd split the Russes into separate squadrons though, you've got a spare slot so there's no reason not to.

 

If you dropped one of the weapons from the plas/las squads then you'd have enough points to add it in an additional Infantry Squad, and you should have some points spare to upgrade the PCS with something :)

[FashaTheDog]

Regimental standards are pretty good and are worth the 15 points, swapping the Lord Commissar for a Company Command would leave you five points up and make it a little harder to kill.  Plus you get a few extra orders to play with which are always nice.  By making that change you end up with 1,940 points spare which can get you another infantry squad for the platoon and you can either keep the power sword and melta bombs or trade one or both for other weapon upgrades.  Leaving the power sword for the looks and taking another flamer squad, you have 10 points to spare.  Dropping the vox would make that 20.  My blob squad experience has always shown that having a couple of power weapons can help slowly nickle and dime assault units so that when they finally do break free, they have taken losses and are that much easier to send back to their foam with shooting. 

 

Minor points would be splitting the vehicle squadrons since you have the slots anyway.  Are you planning on taking different Russ configurations or are they fine bare?

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

I've been debating that. I like the Battle Tanks, but my understanding of the rules is that firing a Battle Cannon makes all other weapons Snap-Shot. I don't see the point of paying for upgrades that will only ever hit on a six, and you have the hull HB to soak a Weapon Destroyed.

 

Maybe I'm wrong. 

[FashaTheDog]

The weapon destroyed is randomly chosen, so more weapons means less chance.  Even upgrading to a Demolisher or Executioner.  The hull mounted lascannon can also be nice for versatility and some variants are not ordnance like the Conqueror, Exterminator, and Executioner.  The 30 points for the heavy bolter sponsons and a heavy stubber here are great additions.  Likewise on an Executioner, plasma cannon sponsons and a lascannon are good too. Even when you just throw sponsons on, there are times you would rather have nine heavy bolter shots than the battle cannon; they're not often, such as when the enemy is right on top of your lines and a scatter will matter, but the do crop up often enough to justify that when weighed with the reduction of losing the main gun from 50% to 25% as well.  I have found that the additional versatility often does pay for itself over the long run, but I like to run either a half dozen Leman Russ or none at all, so I have a larger investment in my lists to my armor.  Since your list does not sink over half its points in tanks, their survival and overall contribution is less important, giving you greater flexibility with how you arm and use them.  Play around with it and see what your models actually have on them.

 

If they have sponsons you do not want to use right away, consider removing only the guns and putting a magnet on the mount.  Then put a magnet on a searchlight or some sort of camera lens looking part (like from the Shadowsword sprue if you can trade/eBay for it) and call it a sponson mounted searchlight or targeting array.  Then you can, as I previously recommended, magnetize other weapons for later consideration.  That way you will save yourself effort and probably make your life easier in the long run.  Tearing off the whole sponson is a bit of work and if the prior owner used epoxy, damned near impossible without ruining the side.

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

So, life being what it is I ended up buying a ton of infantry and now I have to sell the lot before I got most of it painted. 

 

Shut 'er down.

[WarriorFish]

:(