[HH1.0] Night Lords Tactics

[ThatOneMarshal]

If you feel like your lacking Anti-Tank you could always run Tank Hunter Melta Bomb Vets.

That's true, though the only thing I can think of that's really scary in terms of armor is a word bearers player running a spartan star with gal Vorbak and lorgar. Thankfully no one has discovered the greatness of graviton yet. I do have to say that melta bombs on veterans are a steal. Your paying 2.5 points for melta bombs on the vets which is great.

 

The idea is to have sevater rude with them in a dreadclaw. Give them furios charge then charge some fools. The terror squads go after other infantry while dreads target spartan.

 

I'm not sure if I should switch out the raptors for soemthing else like jetbikes or a terminator squad. Also I need a way to get odd pods. I've got six right now.

Edited December 31, 2015 by ThatOneMarshal

[d@n]

Has anyone had any success with outriders loaded up with melta bombs and power weapons, in a terror assault list?

[Hesh Kadesh]

First turn 5+ Cover/3+ Jink (From the Shadows has no effect on a Jinking unit) is pretty good on such an advance unit. Loaded up with Meltabombs means that they're hunting for a vehicle, but because scout, cannot attack until turn 2, so no first turn Land Raider gib. Talent for Murder is pretty good on a minimum squad with a pair of power axes as you fancy - combined charges, and you've now got an axe wounding on 2's with 3 attacks on the charge in addition to what other units have.

 

Success is a questionable choice of word, but they're certainly a useable unit. Could even take a Bike Forge Lord with  a VSH (to prevent a first turn Typhoning) Rad Nades and Graviton Gun and Power Swords. While they'll only ever be really effective at ganging up on infantry (despite T5 and I5 if second turn assault, Terminators with Claws or even just simple Swords are going to cause a fair bit of damage you don't want to take), i can see them being a pretty thematic unit, scalping things.

[d@n]

That's what I was thinking. Use them as tank hunters and then use them to add weight to your terror squads assaults.

[Lord Asvaldir]

I don't see how bikes wouldn't be a good addition to a terror assault list. Good, fast platform to melta bombs, and even without power weapons a small squad can help your terror squads get that outnumber bonus. I'd say the only thing to consider is do you want to take jetbikes, attack bikes or normal bikes.

[Tychii]

For tank hunting I perfer attack bikes, two wounds wih jink is really sturdy enough on a cheap fast platform

[qwerty2jam]

While on the topic of bikes has anyone any experience with a command/guard squad (away from book and can't remember exactly what they are called) with power weapons on jetbikes? With talent for murder, power weaps, 2+ yada yada yada could it be a potent central point?

 

I imagine it would be expensive as all hell of course...

 

 

 

Maybe not the place to ask this but as we're all night lord enthusiasts, any quick opinions on using the GW raptor kit as night raptors to do the unit on the cheap?

[helterskelter]

Doable. All the mouths and stuff are vox amps etc. I've a kit to use, some of the more demonic/fleshy bits I'm going to snip off and clean up the models a touch.

[Viridia]

Heya folks. Thought I'd just weigh in with a question; Terror Squads, are they for close combat or short-range gunfights? After all, we can take units of 20-strong assault marines, or 15-man units of Night Raptors, and each of those have access to bonuses the Terror Squads lack like combat shields, squad-wide access to melta-bombs/power weapons/chainglaives, plus having jump-packs makes them bulky with the attendant bonus to 'Talent For Murder'.

 

Is Infiltrate, Fear, and Preferred Enemy: Infantry really enough to make up for all of that?

[Hesh Kadesh]

Yes.

 

Also, big squads are a waste. Take smaller squads and combine charges. On terror squads, giving them all volkites is 250. While it isn't going to be the CC infantry killer that is something like a Palatine Blade or Reaver/Vet squad, that isn't why you take them.

 

They are a unit which has 20 Preferred Enemy S5 Deflagrate Shots, and backs that up with Fear and 4 Preferred Enemy attacks on the charge. They add 10 bodies to a Talent for murder, and combining with a charge of another unit (perhaps another Terror Squad, or an I5 character to cause some casualties beforehand, or an Artillery barrage/aiolos strike) to get +1 to wound, they are point for point among the most varied and flexible units in the game, and can pull it off.

[helterskelter]

And if you take a chainglaive on the bossman rending with precision strike can be hilarious good fun

[Mazryonh]

What is it that you need your Heavy Support for? With the exception of a Deredeo, few other roles cannot be fulfilled elsewhere? Vindicators, Plasma/Melta preds etc? Typhon. Land Raiders/Spartans? Terminator/Breacher Transports. Fire Raptors/Sicarans? Typhon or Land Speeders. Vindi TD/Sicaran Venator? Rapiers with anything that's not a Quad Heavy Bolter. Anvillus? It's a Terror Assault List - 20 Man Tactical Squads are not available as Compulsory options, and large Terminator Squads can Deep Strike.

 

It's a rather good Rite of War, with a rather good legion, that combine to make it a Tier 2 list (out of 4 Tiers, with Tier 1 being the best).

 

Heavy Support is where you get your tanks, and many 30k/40k gamers are major treadheads by any stretch of the imagination.  The basic 30k list is specifically designed to let you bring lots of them!  Granted, blowing stuff up with massive firepower at range is more the Iron Warriors' thing, because nothing sets off visceral horror and terror than seeing your comrades/friends get disemboweled and torn in half rather than ripped to pieces by distant fire:

 

 

Even the 30k Iron Warriors would be perturbed at what the Necron Wraith does in that old trailer (which for some reason was censored for the actual release of the game) whereas they wouldn't blink twice at seeing their squadmates getting disintegrated by artillery.

 

By the way, isn't a Devastator squad traditionally the cheapest source of ranged anti-tank firepower in the 40k game (called a Heavy Support squad in 30k)?  If you're playing at lower point levels, aren't they more valuable? 

 

Furthermore, the Fear inflicted by Terror Squads and Fear-causing ICs doesn't do jack against anything with an AV, and is similarly useless against Salamanders, Death Guard, and Word Bearers (most of the time for that last one).  If you're up against an opponent bringing lots of vehicles or Dreadnoughts, wouldn't you be better off not using Terror Assault when using Night Lords, since Fear is wasted against vehicles?

 

Speaking of Night Lords, where are their unique 2-wound Terminators?  I haven't heard of them in the current 30k lists. They should definitely cause Fear like Terror Squads; why not their Dreadnoughts too?

Edited January 4, 2016 by Mazryonh

[Slips]

Thing about devastator squads is thats its only ever 4 heavy weapons that you can pick and choose which to include.

 

In 30k its 5-10 men all with the same Heavy Weapon no ifs or buts the only exception being the Sergeant.

 

And no, they arent cheaper than tanks.

[Hesh Kadesh]

The 30k list is in no way designed to take lots and lots of tanks, or else they'd cost a fraction of what they do cost. What it does allow you to do is to take tanks if you want it. As for what an Iron Warrior would be perturbed at, I doubt it. Getting ripped open in hand to hand when they themselves take Chainfists, Lightning Claws, Paragon Blades, or Thunder Hammers is hardly "perturbing", let alone for one who has been involved in siege warfare and assaults. Unlike other legions which often took to battle via Drop Pod, and enemy guns have less time to set up and be in arc of sight/position to rapidly redeploy (outside of the actual gameplay, and more fluffbased of course), Iron Warriors have to commit siege tactics, where enemy guns are in defensible positions, and things like Turbo-laser Turrets and other super-heavy/titan class weaponry are attacking any siege based force. No, I seriously doubt that past the very initial shock of having something they've never seen before emerging from thin air, there would be little that would perturb the IW (or any other legion), especially once the gun tape was sent wirelessly to a command vehicle and then beamed into orbit and shared to other astartes, so that they know what to expect. (Those helmet cams are handy). Edited January 5, 2016 by Flint13

[Slips]

Besides, Iron Warriors dont take Morale Tests from Shooting.

 

But enough of the Iron Ivth, this is about the Midnight VIIIth

[helterskelter]

Mazryonh: terror assault allows a nifty cover save for maybe 3 turns. If you can pull off the dice rolls as long as it's not an ignore cover weapon you are getting a save against the big guns. Also after the terror squads and Hq you are allowed to bring weapons to the table that can deal with anything heavy. Heck you can use terror squads to glance rhinos to death for lack of anything else to shoot at if you arm them with sweet, sweet volkite Edited January 4, 2016 by helterskelter

[Viridia]

Yes.

 

That's a fair point, though I'm a bit surprised at big squads being a waste when most of the time the focus seems to be 'MSU's have a tax'. I suppose it's my fault for extrapolating that up to the kind of king-size squads Assault Marines or Raptors can come in. I must admit to being intrigued by the idea of Volkite Terrors glancing Rhinos to death. Anyone managed to hit tougher tanks and glance them at the rear/side?

 

I did have another question for the frater in here. I've always liked the idea of inverting a Legion's tropes, or stereotypes; my Fists are covert specialists, but there's nothing standing out about my Night Lords, and I've been contemplating Breacher Squads, either to bulk up a Terror Assault list or to replace it. Do Breacher squads benefit from our Legion rules?

[SkimaskMohawk]

Sure they gain all the benefits as any other model with our special Legiones Astartes variant. You could do a big unit with curze + vigilator to get them into an annoying range with their grav and then they'd have a 3+ cover save turn one in the open or a 2+ in cover; only a typhon can really deal with that.

 

That said its really hard to replace terror assault. It gives you some good flexibility with access to pods and dreadclaws, 5 man terrors are pretty cheap and with their Infiltrate you can throw an objective on the far side of the table and then infiltrate/outflank onto it, while large units are really good shock units. Plus the initiative bonus and persistent stealth can really help out a lot.

 

I played a Pride list today instead of the usual Terror Assault, and while I made a bunch of mistakes that really helped me lose, I really missed the benefits of Terror Assault the entire game.

[helterskelter]

Aye the bonuses that could come from a potential 3 turns of darkness outweigh not using terror at all, like skimask experienced there.

The bonus to initiative while charging in the dark means you can take out pesky things before they can even strike back, include precision striking glaives from terror squads sergeant in that and you have yourself a chance to get a quick upper hand.

Edited January 10, 2016 by helterskelter

[Vaz]

If in a Terror Assault list you folks were going to take a podded Leviathan, what would you put on it? I'm thinking Grav and Seige Drill combo.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Grav and claw, as mechanicum creatures and primarchs abound

[Vaz]

My thoughts;

 

Grav + Claw, Pod = Kill infantry, primarch's and other multi wound models.

 

Cannons + Drill, Pod = Kill armor, knights, other such items.

 

Also with the new rule's for Tartaro's Terminator armor, I feel like they have a nice spot in the list. Being able to either pod or teleport in. Use to reinforce assaults and sweep away!

[Hesh Kadesh]

I've always quite liked minimum squads at 175pts base, maybe 185 for either a chainfist or chainglaive, and have them pod in a Dreadclaw. Although the Dreadclaw is expensive, it helps the rest of the army out, and allows a second turn charge to take out those naught special weapon squads/siege tyrants etc that otherwise jellify Terror Assaults.

[qwerty2jam]

Hey everyone,

 

Alright so a thought. What role could Mikita and cults have in a Night Lords army (allies obviously)? Cheap bodies on the ground to allow you to dedicate more to the delicious pod assault? A moving firewall of 30" s4 3+ t4 if you build right? Or maybe hordes of combat cultists running up the field while your enemy is distracted with terror squads?

 

The issue of course is none of these units can score for us and they have to footslog unless you take a gorgon or a lighter.

 

I envision my army as having the full might of Nostromo behind it, militia, marines and Knights. That's a glorious image

[Hesh Kadesh]

Thanks to the allies changes, Night Lords can do rather well as allies.

 

Terror Assaults limitation on number of Support Officers and Heavy Support doesn't massively affect decisions, they only need 2 Troops choices, and not scoring isn't a problem on units that aren't really well suited for scoring.

 

Sure, you're limited to elites, but you can field them effectively as such podding in to support a Militia advance supported by Titans.