[HH1.0] Night Lords Tactics

[Lord Asvaldir]

The only change I've heard of is that units can purchase trophies of judgement in the RoW that makes raptors troops. Outside of that RoW I haven't seen any changes, though I'm basing this off what Garro posted on the HH forums, haven't seen the book for myself. 

 

If you want your automata to be more assault oriented I don't see why trophies of judgement wouldn't be worth it. 

[1ncarnadine]

Does anyone know what the trophies of judgement changes are? Is it worth it on Praevians and their automata? And do Praevians get access to new Battle Automata?

 

No changes! Automata can still buy Trophies of Judgement and gain the enormous benefits of Fear.. twice? Yeah.

 

This is one I wanted to bring up with Alan Bligh and then forgot because he was talking really cool future plans with changing allies matrices.

[Lord Asvaldir]

I forgot about Automata already having fear, that does make trophies of judgement quite pointless on them. 

[Flint13]

I can't help but think that they are *supposed* to give -1 to the fear check if the unit already causes fear.

 

But they don't :(

[ThatOneMarshal]

That would be pretty cool paired with Kurze.

[disease]

 

 

Most recent publication usually takes precedent..so if they've omitted shots that means it's gone

True but FW has been pretty lazy and error proned by just copypasting the old rules in for the reprints. Just look at the new Justaerin entry for an example (Able to add 7 additional bodies for a total of 12; clearly not intentional since they came stock with three and are updated to have five base).

 

With the new assualt squad formation what about that combined with an allied death guard recon detachment. Give out precision deepstrikijg to everyone

 

^ what benefit does the allied death guard bring? Why them in particular?

[Hesh Kadesh]

Infiltrating Nuncio's, I guess. DG are the only possible Sworn Brothers. Only issue is that FW have to correct the allies table to explain what they mean.

[Perry]

I want to work on my terror assault elites section

 

Do I go for the rather un-night lord choice of a Quad gun battery or a dreadclaw full of melta bomb assault veterans?

 

Rest of my list is 3 terror squads, lightning fighter, terminator unit , Kheres Mortis dread and maybe a leviathan dread

[helterskelter]

Depends on what your focus is really, quad guns aren't particularly Un night lordy if you were to consider they're tracked so they can get to those hard go reach places to sow more terror. They've been updated in book 6? so you pay a little more than current red books for shatter shells, but if you take a siege breaker can grab some lovely phosphex shells which ruin anyone's day.

Have you considered land speeders perhaps for some mobile firepower?

[Perry]

I did consider some speeders but put off by lack of a 30k model and I didn't fancy the javlins.

 

If I invest in a dreadclaw I'll get to use the model in most games due to how useful it is, turn two charges on an enemies back line would be great

[Galron]

Yeah I would go for more bodies and assault vets are fun.

[Count Douclar]

Was wandering if it's better to take terminators or veterans in a terror assault list.

 

Vets in a dreadclaw, loaded with some power weapons, 2 meltas and melta bombs could be a god versatile unit which comes down first turn and can assault second turn. But cost over 400 points. On the other hand, termies can teleport and are more survivable, but have less attacks (also bulky, which help with outnumbering). Trying to make a list, torn between these 2 units.

 

And on the subject of termies, what load out would people use to maximise talent for murder? Dual claws to max out attacks and wounds?

Edited February 16, 2016 by Count Douclar

[helterskelter]

Terminators will generally live longer thanks to invulnerable save vs the vets having none.

Terminators are the best for making the for talent for murder, being bulky they count as 2 models so a full squad of ten a near enough always going to benefit from it.

The vets are more likely to benefit from terror assault with a greater likelyhood of a turn 2 charge wherein NL get plus 1 initiative during a charge in the dark, which you have a 50% chance of for turn 2 requiring a 4+ assuming you made the first 2 plus.

Although you can specialise the vets, personally, I'd play terminators for the versatility of platform being able to mix up chainfists, axes, swords/claws, combi weapons, even a heavy weapon or 2 if you fancy it. And they'll live to kill more most likely, or hold up another enemy elite at the very least

Edited February 16, 2016 by helterskelter

[Balthamal]

Depends what Master of the Legion you're running as well. If it's Sevatar Terminators win hands down.

 

I'd personally go with them (run mine in Tartaros Armour) because you can deck them out to handle all comers with chainfists/claws/axes etc and ofc talent for murder makes it a pretty strong squad. Even against another terminator blob you'll have the advantage of hitting better so yeah Terminators get my vote

[Hesh Kadesh]

Terminators can take a Dreadclaw as dedicated transport, and ultimately cost less to bring the same bodies to provide the new and improved talent for murder buff.

 

10 Veterans, Dreadclaw = 300pts, no upgrades, so Bolters (possibly Sniper, if you wanted to be generous), Bolter, Bolt Pistol+CCW

5 Terminators, Dreadclaw = 275pts, come with Power Weapons, can now Sweep, have a 2+/5++ and have ability to pick up a trio of Combi-Plasma or 

 

Having said that, veterans are quite a good bodyguard unit for Sevatar, 9 with 3 Power Swords gives you a further 12 Attacks hitting on 3's, wounding on 3's against outnumbered MEQ's. In a Dreadclaw, it's a second turn charge, but means you need to ensure that you can put some wounds on the target first. Sev is a tricky one. He gets rerolls to wounds with Precognition up, and with Rending, improving his chance to wound is reducing his chance to cause a Rend, thereby actually reducing his chance in a challenge. Ironically, Sevatar gets more bonuses by fighting fairly XD.

 

A more luxury option is;

 

Command Squad, x2 Additional, 5 Power Weapons, Combat Shields, Meltabombs 240

Forge Lord, Tartaros Armour, Rad Nades, Graviton Gun 145

FA Dreadclaw 100

 

You can drop the Forge Lord if you want, but at 145 for a further +1 to wound and the ability to strip HP's or leave enemies in difficult terrain I think it's worth it in larger games alongside Sevatar. In that instance, if you want to try and trigger Sev's Rends you can always pootle off with the FL and have him assault another unit. With Sev and the Terminator FL, the unit size counts as 8, and with Sev having a good chance at gibbing the enemy (as you decide which wound pool to use, obviously, allocate your rends first to trigger ID, then allocate your AP3 non Rends) enough so as to trigger Talent for Murder on other units (at the expense of only having a 3+ with reroll from Precog).

 

But to address the points, Veterans or Terminators, outside of a niche, Terminators provide the best cost efficiency. In Terror Assault, they can pick up a Legion Drop Pod for cheaper, and start shooting, costing 235pts for Sniper Bolters, and a further 20-50pts for a pair of special weapons, but you've already spent possibly 285-300pts on 10 Volkite equipped Preferred Enemy Precision Shot Volkites in a Drop Pod (and you've probably got 3 of them). If a set of Sniper Heavy Flamers was what you're after, I'm not entirely sure that given the rest of the options available, you'd want to spend a further 265pts on just a pair of Sniper Flamers is the way forward either. Might as well just sack off the chance at AP2 and instead just settle for a podded Dreadnought, or Terminator Teleport Squad with Combi-Flamers and a Heavy Flamer.

[Count Douclar]

Thanks for the responses. I see the versatility of termies and was going with a praetor in termi armour and have them deep strike as one. But was looking at the synergy terror assault had with vets so became torn between the two. I mean in a higher point game, I could run both, but was looking at 2000 pts as a start (using BoC box). Also, not going to run sev yet, as my group is doing a campaign with generic characters.

 

For terminator squads, I assume a mix of claws and axes (with a dash of chainfists for vehicles) would be best as you go with claws, kill some and gain the benefit of talent for murder for the axes (this is assuming you didn't outnumber at the start of combat).

Edited February 16, 2016 by Count Douclar

[Balthamal]

Depends how many you're running. In a 10 man squad I run 3 chainfists/3 claws and 4 axes. And it's pretty much like you said, thin out some numbers with the claws since you get the re-roll to wound but make every effort to outnumber from the off (which you shouldn't really have trouble with unless you take on another terminator blob) because hitting on 3s and wounding on 3s with a reroll can get very nasty very quickly and that's before you upgrade to wounding on 2s with axes

[Galron]

I like vets mainly because of shooting power and outflanking ability. I see the benefits of the terminators however and as I realign my armies. Probably will be going the all terminator route as an alternate in the near future as they have nerfed the way I prefer my IW and have an excess 30 terminators lying around. Both have their advantages. I find the vets better for longer ranged combat for taking a position and holding it while terms are better for the shock hail mary thing. I think Vets are redundant in a list taking both however as a heavy support team can provide better fire. But I suppose it all depends on the RoW used.

[Lord Asvaldir]

Generally I prefer terminators in terror assault, just because veterans have a bit of an overlap with what terror squads do. Yes, you could take sniper heavy flamers and make them your terminator unit, but I feel like there are better units for that (namely terminators themselves). The best use I really see for vets in terror assault is loading them up with melta bombs since anti tank can always be difficult to come by with the lack of heavy support. 

[lanceqi]

Actually vet is one-time-only suicide squad. You don't want them to get involved with cc because they are just as vulnerable as tac squad. You can give them melta and combi-melta with a pod but since must of the guys in my local club use spartan/land raider with ceramic plate so I don't normally use them this way. In night lord armies, the biggest problem is I can't find them a specific role for we have choom terror squad to deal with meq, Atramentar with Teq and podded dreadnought with raiders. I guess they will be useful when your opponents are running vehicles with 11-13 armor.

[Lord Asvaldir]

Actually vet is one-time-only suicide squad. You don't want them to get involved with cc because they are just as vulnerable as tac squad. 

 

I wouldn't say that's a hard rule. You could give veterans a couple power weapons, furious charge and a dreadclaw and plan for a turn 2 charge. If you still have night fight, they are hitting at i5 so can take on most meq units. Yes I admit not the best use of veterans since as you pointed out terror squads can already do that, but it is a viable option if you want to go very assault heavy.  

[lanceqi]

Yeah... I think you are right. Maybe we can see more vets if we don't have to run 3 mandatory troops in our row.

[Slips]

Or, if youre not running the RoW at all.

[Lord Asvaldir]

Yeah... I think you are right. Maybe we can see more vets if we don't have to run 3 mandatory troops in our row.

 

Ya I mean the issue is there's a lot of overlap between what an assault/anti infantry veterans unit does and terror squads. Since there's no need to field more than 3 squads with that role, except for melta bomb vets they don't have much of a place in terror assault. 

 

Of course in different RoWs I think veterans have a place for Night Lords, furious charge combined with our to wound bonus is nice. 

[lanceqi]

Anyway......Does anybody have an idea of dealing with firedrakes from Salamanders? I found them extremely tough and deadly in CC. I'm going to have a game with my friend this weekend and he is going to run firedrakes plus Prime Medicae in a spartan and man they are really a hard rock to deal with.

Here is his list that I can remember:

HQ: praetor in cataphractii terminator armor

Paragon blade

Shield that provides 3++

Troop: 10 men Tactical Squad plus Apothecary

5 men pyroclasts

Elite: 10 men Firedrakes plus Prime Medicae

Fast Attack:

10 men seeker squad with combi-plasma

Plus Apothecary

Heavy Support:

3 Spartans (possibly with ceramic plate)