[HH1.0] Night Lords Tactics

[Flint13]

At absolute most, the Word Bearers are going to have six dice.

 

Which, given, is probably going to knock out your Pre-cog roll. But honestly that's just a very few specific builds. Most heresy armies can manage four pskyer dice at most. 

 

Typically you just won't see pskyers at all. They aren't supes popular on the whole.

 

But like Balth mentions, :cuss rolling is typically your worst enemy ^_^

[Balthamal]

For what it's worth, whenever I've run Sev, precog has failed on my bad rolling 98% of the time, the rest being that fluke double 6 on 3 dice

[SkimaskMohawk]

Statistically you should get the power off with 1 of your 2 dice and your opponent should only be able to dispel it if you've rolled 6 for the pool (of the enemy has no other psykers of course). So really it's far more likely to off than not

[Count Douclar]

Statistically it's possible, but that like having something look good on paper. Honestly I don't want to rely on something that has a chance of failing to keep my warlord alive. That being said, will I use sev? Probably, because he is cool. But will he be my go to? No, especially not for a terror assault list.

 

Speaking of something that looks good on paper, terror squads with heavy chain blades look viable, they wound on 2s with rerolls (I believe it was mentioned at some point in this thread when the new rules were anounced). With this in mind, would it change the common build of 3 terror squads all with volkite?

 

I'm probably going to run with 2 volkite (infiltrating) and 1 heavy chainsword (in a dreadclaw). I also take it there is no point in mixing weapons in squads (read volkite and bolsters). I see the bolsters giving extra range and act as meet shields for the volkite, but reduces the wound rate of CHOOMing.

[Lord Asvaldir]

I don't see why it's +2 with rerolls, that's only if you're fighting infantry due to preferred enemy. Yes, heavy chainswords look cool, but I just can't see ever wanting to take them over volkites. Beyond just volkites being incredibly good guns, I see them as far more valuable then heavy chainswords because you can whittle down a unit before you assault it, giving you the outnumber bonus once you charge in. 

[Count Douclar]

I forgot to mention against infantry, my bad. I guess I just wanted to run something other then volkite.

[SkimaskMohawk]

@Count Douclar: Not sure what you wrote makes as much sense as you think it does. Statistically you have the same chance of getting precognition off as you do passing a 2+ save. Once that happens you have better survivability than a standard praetor. Relying on something that has a chance at failing is literally the whole point of the game. Even if it fails, sevetar is only more vulnerable against ap 3 weapons, which is realistically mostly from shooting.

[Lord Asvaldir]

Ya I feel like it's really not the +3 save that makes Sevetar less usable, I mean in a fight where everyone has ap2 weapons it makes no difference anyway. It's really Sevetar's lack of ap2 that is a real letdown for me. Too many times I've failed to get that lucky rend I need, which realistically speaking you need 2 to get through an iron halo, while when my opponent strikes back he's always going to get a few wounds in past my invul save. Sure, sevetar definitely can win, it's just far from guaranteed. 

[Ave_Dominus_Nox]

How do people think Ophion will fare vs standard Paragon blade praetors? I personally like his chances. As long as he doesn't fail his first save to a murderous strike he should win out in a challenge.

[Hesh Kadesh]

There are 3 Generic Praetors which are tougher than Sevatar without Precognition, and only 1 when you include it.

 

Salamanders; They get a 3++ and Eternal Warrior, or 4++ and Eternal Warrior but can Sweep. These are the ones which fall under both categories.

 

Iron Hands; with 3++.

 

Imperial Fists with 3++.

 

Between I6, Challenges, Look Out, Sir! and his 4++ Invulnerable, he is just as survivable as any other Praetor spending 25pts on an Iron Halo, when virtually every character he is up against may have some form of AP2.

 

When Precog goes off, he gets a better than 3++; rather than 67% of hits stopped, it is %75. That it makes his Rends for AP2 and if in a challenge, Instant Death more likely to occur.

 

As others have said as well, getting in Feel No Pain via a Primus Medicae or lucky Biomancy roll is one option. After all, you don't often really want to reduce your chances for Rending by adding in a Forge Lord if you are 'Crit Fishing' on characters.

[Count Douclar]

@SkimaskMohawk, I realise it didn't make much sense after posting, as a rerollable invul is better than a 2+ armour save, and most characters are running around with ap2 weapons anyway. Edited March 9, 2016 by Count Douclar

[Runefyre]

I'm planning on starting a night lord army later this year hopefully, and I just wanted to ask what you guys think would be a good starting force (1000 points) to invest in (so I can plan my purchases a little better and avoid getting something I'll never use).

[helterskelter]

I'm planning on starting a night lord army later this year hopefully, and I just wanted to ask what you guys think would be a good starting force (1000 points) to invest in (so I can plan my purchases a little better and avoid getting something I'll never use).

First off, what do you like about the night Lords?

Secondly have you seen all the Rites of War available?

Thirdly what models do you like the look of?

[Runefyre]

I love the paint scheme (lightning bolts, grisly trophies), and the whole strike from the shadows idea (makes more sense tactically than just running at the enemy)

 

I haven't seen the new RoW, but I've seen terror assault and am very impressed with it.

 

My first night lords love is their contemptor, it's such a pretty model I also love the chainglaive's aesthetics.

 

I also need to effectively counter my brother's planned DA army ( thramas crusade reenactment). So advice on DA is welcomed as well.

[Aeternus]

All I know about DA right now is they like swords, but from what I remember have no bonus to shooting. So just volley them with volkite until you have numbers such that they won't be able to use their pretty lil swords or bonuses to hit.

 

Personally I don't much like the horror cult (or whatever) new one, but you might find a use for it. It's basically raptors as troops, optional kharybdiss DT, and can take fear for all squads for a price, iirc.

 

Welcome to the legion BTW ;) Ave Dominus Nox

 

Edit: just checked DA. Fear those heavy bolters. Fear them like they should fear us. I'd say one of the target priorities would be to get rid of acid shell heavy bolter support squads. Terror squads will melt under that. Otherwise, make sure they don't get a chance to shoot properly before you charge, stasis shells could be problematic.

 

As for a starting army (yeah, I kinda missed the Q) I don't know if you could fit a basic TA list in 1000 points. 3 main terror squads is cheapish, but denies you the outnumber bonus.

Edited March 9, 2016 by Aeternas

[Runefyre]

Thanks for the input, I won't be making any purchases till late this year (fall/winter), but I wanted to get started familiarizing myself with tactics and planning my purchases. I love the idea of a deep striking terminator list, utilizing combi weapons to deal with afore mentioned heavy support squads. Plus I think terminator sergeants can take chainglaives if I'm not mistaken. And some Contemptor cortus in pods to support. Maybe pride of the legion is the way to go for an initial list.

[Count Douclar]

People have probably asked this before, but what is the best way to run 3 terror squads? Is all volkite in pods the only viable way (don't get me wrong, it seems extremely effective)?

 

I was looking into running a squad with heavy chain blades, some volkite, a kited out sarge in a dreadclaw.

[lanceqi]

@Count Douclar well IMO they are MEQ killers so yes volkite chargers for 10-men squad. I'm thinking of dropping 2 squads in regular pods together with a contemptor and infiltrate the other. But if you give them cc upgrades then you definitely want them to get into cc as soon as possible and dreadclaws seen pretty effective to me. Stick them to the MEQs or glass canons. Edited March 16, 2016 by lanceqi

[Count Douclar]

My basic plan was to infiltrate 2 squads, had the cc squad drop in a dreadclaw and all 3 units mostly going after 1-2 targets. I'll also have raptors and a leviathan. Edited March 17, 2016 by Count Douclar

[SkimaskMohawk]

Am I the only one excited to use horror cult with the new talent for murder? Making raptors fill either compulsory slot, scoring and hitting on 2s with gang up makes them hugely attractive imo

[Lord Abaia]

Yeah, it seems like it could be a fun way to make a jump army. I never quite realized just how overcosted Legion Assault Squads were until I realized that a 10 man Assault Squad and a 10 man Night Raptor squad cost the same. I understand minimum size units are taxed, but that's ridiculous.

 

As far as the Horror Cult's drawback rule I think it's pretty manageable. With the core of your army being Raptors you are highly mobile and want to be in CC anyway. It seems like it might be easy to get tar-pitted by a savvy opponent, but I guess you could avoid that by including a model with a rapid fire weapon just in case. Or even just by running.

[SkimaskMohawk]

The drawbacks arent even that bad. Usually when you're within 12" of a unit you're going to be charging and it doesn't force you to charge the closest unit either so its not like they can really affect you too much

[Flint13]

I think the biggest issue you'd have with the Horror Cult raptor packs is accidentally overkilling and leaving them stranded at the end of their own turn to be shot to poo on your opponent's turn.

 

I guess I could see an issue if you get a bit lazy with your positioning at the end of the movement phase, but just make sure all your units are at least 12.01" away from anything you don't intend to charge that turn.

Edited March 17, 2016 by Flint13

[ThatOneMarshal]

So I'm currently building my army up right now. I've got the bare basics down right now, my only question is what else? I've got:

 

1 sevater/ praetor

 

1 Contemptors dreadnought and pod.

 

5 termies, dusts and combi plaz

 

30 terror marines with the usual. All pods

 

What else can I add? Maybe a veteran squad or raptors? Raptors seem pretty cool but I'm suprised to only see one squad in people's lists. Maybe run 2 10 man squad with just 2 power weapons?

 

What else am I lacking?

[Lord Asvaldir]

I mean there's a ton of stuff you can run, it's really a question of what do you want. You've still got that heavy support slot to fill, all of your fast attack slots are open and you certainly couldn't go wrong with another pod contemptor. I'd say go for something to fill that heavy support slot, give you a little more long range firepower. For filling that slot I usually like to take a vehicle squadron to get the most out of one slot. Now that vindicators can be taken in squadrons, 2 laser vindicators seems like an attractive choice for terror assault.