[HH1.0] Night Lords Tactics

[Lord Asvaldir]

I mean, when we're talking about 30k Astartes, I'm already used to just using one grenade per squad b/c the Sgt is the only one in a despoiler squad to have a melta bomb.

 

That's true, but often I find krak grenades are pretty handy as well, given there's lots of strong tanks out there with weak rear armor (Leman Russes come to mind), and I've been in plenty situations where I might use any unit of astartes as anti tank, but if this grenade rule change comes into effect those days are over. 

[Plaguecaster]

Makes it a waste of points upgrading a whole squad to have melta bombs then if you can only use one

[Flint13]

^Well there is plenty of debate already among a few of the FaQ bits.

 

This is just a rough draft phase, which people already seem to be taking as the finished Mega-Gospel Law.

 

I'd wait a bit until GW has had a chance to take in all the feedback and fiddle around with it some more ^_^

[SkimaskMohawk]

Not ignoring terrain when using your jump pack to assault could get frustrating with Night Raptors. I always thought using skyborne for extra maneuverability in the assault phase was super cool 

[Lord Asvaldir]

It does sound like it will be a pain, however I use jump packs far more often in the movement phase so I'm not too worried. 

[ThatOneMarshal]

So reading the FAQ can we our ICs ride with terror squads now?

[Sabadin]

So reading the FAQ can we our ICs ride with terror squads now?

Only if your opponent is ok with it

[Balthamal]

Nope it's pretty cut and dried. Regardless of a unit with the infiltrate special rule deploying via infiltrate/outflank/normally or (where possible) deep strike, no IC can join them without having the infiltrate rule themselves. First turn you can pair em up no problem

[Galron]

Unless you choose to not use the infiltrate rule. They could always ride in drop pods with each other.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Unless you choose to not use the infiltrate rule. They could always ride in drop pods with each other.

 

"INDEPENDENT CHARACTERS

Q: Infiltrate rules state that an Independent Character without Infiltrate cannot join a squad of Infiltrators. Does this mean a squad that is actively Infiltrating or just any unit that has the Infiltrate rule? This matters for things like Outflank (granted freely by the Infiltrate rule) and Infiltrate units that have Deep Strike.

A: An Independent Character without the Infiltrate special rule cannot join a unit of Infiltrators during deployment, whether they are Infiltrating, Deep Striking, Outflanking or deploying normally. They are free to join units as they wish after deployment"

 

Can never join

Edited May 9, 2016 by SkimaskMohawk

[Flint13]

Well there ya go!

 

Scootch the convo along please ^_^

[Galron]

Well that makes absolutely no sense but oh well. Will have to completely rethink where to put Sevatar from where I have been playing him for the last couple years. Hopefully they will change that in the final draft. "Even though we are all boarding drop pods for this invasion, you guys are too sneaky for me to catch a ride with you." 

[PMB]

Well that makes absolutely no sense but oh well. Will have to completely rethink where to put Sevatar from where I have been playing him for the last couple years. Hopefully they will change that in the final draft. "Even though we are all boarding drop pods for this invasion, you guys are too sneaky for me to catch a ride with you." 

 

The whole having  that crappy "Master of Ambush" (acute senses for outflankers? What a load of rubbish) but no infiltrate means I tend to just use a praetor, though with Sev's model as its such a fantastic piece.

[Balthamal]

It isn't ideal but then again it isn't worthless when used properly either. Think that's what people are missing out on here. Sev is a phenomenal assault character (yes yes I know only AP2 on rends) but trying to use him as a force multiplier in the same way as some of the Primarchs is plain wrong.

 

There's a lot of mileage to be had from him, it just requires:

 

 

A good chunk of units to outflank with the understanding that your entire strategy is based around getting the units where they can do the most damage.

 

Terminators - else his Master of the Atramentar rule is wasted

 

A veteran squad or command squad to run with him and supply A Talent for Murder - ideally a terror squad in a dreadclaw would be optimal but since that isn't a goer make the best of what's there

 

 

Bottom line: Terror Assault does not play well to Sevatar's strengths. Pride of the Legion and Orbital Assault is likely to get more value

[Flint13]

 

Bottom line: Terror Assault does not play well to Sevatar's strengths. Pride of the Legion and Orbital Assault is likely to get more value

 

I think this is what throws people.

 

Terror Assault is the premier way to use the VIIIth legion, but their 1st captain doesn't play well with it.  

[Balthamal]

 

 

Bottom line: Terror Assault does not play well to Sevatar's strengths. Pride of the Legion and Orbital Assault is likely to get more value

 

I think this is what throws people.

 

Terror Assault is the premier way to use the VIIIth legion, but their 1st captain doesn't play well with it.  

 

 

I don't necessarily agree tbh, Terror Assault is good when used properly but there's just as much potential for PotL and Chosen Duty because the biggest handicap of 1 Heavy support slot is removed. Granted with Vindi Squadrons and Leviathan Talons it's nowhere near as crippling as it used to be.

 

The one time it truly shines above everything else is when Konrad is included, and not just because he's a Primarch and Primarchs are awesome - he fits so well into it's style of play that he must have been written exclusively with the thought process of "how can he buff Terror Assault" in mind. Everything TA benefits is magnified and multiplied across the board. He does well with any other NL army but it's TA where he's (rightly imo) at home.

 

The biggest problem with Sevatar's warlord trait, isn't what it's trying to represent - to my mind it's the classic "stab you in the back" ploy but in how it's executed. I think there were much better potential mechanisms to use to get that effect without making it unbalanced. At any rate I'm going to the FW Open Day so  I'll raise the issue with Alan and Andy and ask them what the thought process was behind it

[helterskelter]

Terror assault isn't even all that inhibiting when it comes to armour removal.

Just because it only allows for one heavy support does not mean it can't be a capable list vs armour.

Also can't disagree our man size characters do better elsewhere and Curze can absolutely wreck face with the night time bonus's on top of TFM.

[Balthamal]

I agree it can be very capable. But you're very much pigeonholed into taking 85% of the army that way. And against some heavy infantry armies the lack of things like sicarans and scorpius whirlwinds can be a painful downside

[helterskelter]

Depends on game size and your consul of choice.

Seeing as how TA is also restricted to one consul things to be considered are which kind of force you'd like to apply.

 

Siege Breaker: phosphex shells for medusa and quad mortar (either way, that's a lot of troop hurt), nuncio vox for deepstriking goodness,and art of destruction for tank removal depending on which unit you put him with (see mortars)

 

Forgelord: rad nades ( for making things easier to boop on the snoot), cortex controller for stompy robot support if so chose, and can take a unit of servitors armed suitably depending in the task you wish to undertake

 

Praevian: for stompy robots without using a heavy slot

 

Vigilator: for getting one particular squad into a particularly nasty position to upset battle plans, plus sabotage for ridding the enemy of a vehicle potentially (d6 str 5 vs weakest armour. A lot of vehicles have 10 on their bottom)

 

Chaplain: for making sure something dies when you charge it, lather rinse repeat. Always repeat.

 

Libby: taking divination either makes sure your stuff hits/arrives/cause rending to happen on enemy of choice

Biomancy for a potential hulk smash Libby

 

MoS: making sure guns hit with bs5 and orbital bombardment with d3 barrage

 

These lot are, in my opinion, the selection to choose from in dual applications of force for either tank or troop killing. A decent balanced list can be made without making life too hard for yourself in TA, bit of pays your money, takes your choice.

We don't need to have the heavy options, just making good selections to suit style of play.

Plus troops are going to suffer a good percentage of the time, the average army having 50 ( 2 10's, 1 5) charger shots available, in front of a unit that can charge to full effect behind it, with preferred enemy to boot.

Quad mortars with shatter shells in support is probably a good idea too. Who doesn't like 12 str 8 shots.

[SkimaskMohawk]

My new favorite HQ character combo is siege breaker, Herald. Siege breaker unlocks phosphex rounds for my 3 quad mortars and the herald gives the crazy 12" +1 charge and reroll 1s to hit, as well as RoWs. The re-rolls work especially well on night raptors on the outnumber

[Terminus]

I like the Herald but kind of cautious about adding another extra VP for the opponent to win. Forge Lord and Herald is also an interesting combination .

[Darmor]

Hi all, I'm going to start a 30K Night Lords army and have a little question. From what I have seen from reading on Night Lords and especially Terror Assault from the book, I have a feeling it being a "one trick pony" and if your opponent played against it at least once, he'll have no problems in dealing with it. As my meta is pretty small and the variety of opponents is limited (especially 30K or xenos players), I wanted to ask more experienced players - is it true in practice? I mean, if your alpha strike was not devastating to your opponent, do you still have a chance to win, or the game turns to "quick, hide in terrain before they can kill too much and pray to the end game dice roll"?
P.S. Sorry for maybe bad english

[Balthamal]

In short, yes. And Terror Assault is far from a one trick pony. When used properly it's very flexible and has fantastic target saturation to ensure you get plenty of offensive output.

[Perry]

There are many deployment types open to Terror assault, infiltrate, outflank or drop pod, this could keep your opponent guessing each game

[Aeternus]

Just want to check something. Characters without infiltrate (sev) can't join terror squads during deployment, however he can join during turns. Can apothecaries, who can be taken for terror squads, join during deployment and thus bypass the infiltrate part? Or how does adding the apothecary (from elites) work?