[HH1.0] Night Lords Tactics

[Runefyre]

The way I read it, it's only Independent Characters that can't join Infiltrating squads during deployment. Apothecaries aren't ID's so I tend to ignore the ID rule when attaching them to units. The Infiltrate rule itself doesn't exclude anybody from joining a unit with a single model with that rule, it's the ID rule that stipulates that they (ID's) can't join.

 

My two cents.

[Flint13]

^Yeah, since Apoths are specifically called out as able to be attached to Terror squads, you're good to go. 

[Aeternus]

Good to know, thanks Rune n Flint :)

[Charlo]

So if an apothecary joins do they lose infiltrate?

[helterskelter]

As far as I know the apothecary can infiltrate with them

[Runefyre]

The infiltrate special rule uses the "if at least one model in a unit" wording regarding conferring it to models in a unit. So any model that can legally join a unit with at least one model with infiltrate also gains infiltrate.

[PMB]

Apothecaries aren't IC's though (Primea Medica, a HQ choice, on the other hand are though), so a standard Apothecary (Elite) can join a terror squad and infiltrate with them.

Independent Character (e.g Sev, Consul of some flavour, etc), will not be able to join Infiltrators UNLESS they already have the infiltrate special rule.

[Carnivore]

Alright brothers and sisters, I come to you with the largest of questions - what LOW(s) best suits our legion? Your justification can be fluff or crunch. I'm trying to decide what to add to my Loyalist Night Lords, so obviously Curze is out. I'm leaning toward a Stormblade or a Glaive, but I want to hear the perspectives of my fellow Captains of the VIIIth before making that commitment.

[Balthamal]

My return question would be, what do you foresee the need to lay some smackdown on? If the answer is other LoW superheavies then you can't really look further than the Stormblade of Falchion, They'll have a fine time eating away at all those HPs. If however you're looking at regular vehicles or infantry then a Glaive is where you want to be. What's not to like about Choom?

[Flint13]

My vote is always going to be for a Typhon, for pretty much exactly the reasons Balth outlines... when you don't know exactly what you're going to have to fight, very very rarely can you go wrong with a Typhon. 

 

It's a very points-conscious LoW so it fits into many lists easily, it does hella work with that 7" killer pie plate almost regardless of target, and its scary as :cuss so perfect fluff-wise ^_^

[Terminus]

Typhon and Scorpius getting a price hike are one of the few "nerfs" I'm hoping they implement in the new Legion book.

 

Even if the Scorpius was ~150 points, I'd still give it a lot of consideration, and if they opened it up to squadrons, I'd buy a second in a heartbeat.

Edited May 19, 2016 by Terminus

[Carnivore]

Thank you for the feedback, my friends - up until now my experience with LOWs has been limited by my unfamiliarity with them and the real-world expense lol, but those are both things I'm looking to overcome.

 

I know Balthamal is familiar with it as he helped me put it together, but for those who aren't here's my usual 3K list:

 

HQ

 

Praetor

• Cataphractii Terminator Armour, Master-Crafted Paragon Blade, Trophies of Judgment, Digital Lasers, Teleportation Transponder

 

TROOPS

 

Terror Squad

• 9x Executioners, 1x Heavy Chainblade, 8x Volkite Chargers, Legion Drop Pod
• Headsman: Artificer Armour, Power Fist

 

Terror Squad

• 9x Executioners, 10x Volkite Chargers, Legion Drop Pod
• Headsman: Artificer Armour, Nostraman Chainglaive, Melta Bombs

 

Terror Squad

• 9x Executioners, 10x Volkite Chargers, Legion Drop Pod
• Headsman: Artificer Armour, Nostraman Chainglaive, Melta Bombs

 

ELITES

 

Legion Terminator Squad

• 9x Cataphractii Terminators, 2x Chainfists, 3x Power Fists, 1x Thunderhammer, 2x Pair of Lightning Claws, 2x Plasma Blasters, Teleportation Transponder
• Legion Terminator Sergeant: Nostraman Chainglaive

 

Legion Rapier Weapons Battery

• Quad Mortar ('Thud Gun')
• Quad Mortar ('Thud Gun')

 

Legion Rapier Weapons Battery

• Quad Mortar ('Thud Gun')
• Quad Mortar ('Thud Gun')

 

FAST ATTACK

 

Xiphon Pattern Interceptor

• Armoured Cockpit, Chaff Launchers, Ground-Tracking Auguries

 

HEAVY SUPPORT

 

Leviathan Siege Dreadnought Talon

• Leviathan Siege Dreadnought: Armoured Ceramite, Leviathan Siege Drill, 2x Twin-linked Volkite Caliver
• Leviathan Siege Dreadnought: Armoured Ceramite, Leviathan Storm Cannon, 2x Twin-linked Volkite Caliver
• Leviathan Siege Dreadnought: Armoured Ceramite, Grav-flux Bombard

So when it comes to my LOW, if I'm not getting a force-multiplier like Curze, I'm not sure what best suits the list. The bane of Terror Assault lists tends to be armour, but between the Praetor and his Terminator bodyguard, the Leviathans and the Xiphon I've been able to take on even the most armour-heavy mech lists and come out on top, which I attribute more to the potency of the units I've included than any particular tactical brilliance on my part.

 

I've yet to hear a negative review of the Typhon - sounds like a front-runner to me. Out of curiosity, if taking a War Machine Detachment as your LOW, does anyone ever take two or is that just overkill on a massive point-sink? Aesthetically I'm not in love with either model, but they're both workable and I could do some very Night Lord embellishment to make them more grues- I mean, characterful.

 

Though it is a stunningly beautiful model, I'm a little leery of the Glaive now that I look at it more. I'm already choomed out pretty nicely with the Terror Squads, and though there's no such thing as too much choom, I wonder how practical are its weapons in an assault-heavy melee army that thrives up close i.e. potentially right in the Carronade's path?

 

Thinking out loud, I'm leaning most toward the Stormblade. It's a gorgeous model and has the range and sheer power to shoot anything horrible my Terminators and Leviathans can't get to fast enough. The morale check re-roll that comes with making it a Command Tank seem very practical for Night Lords as well... am I missing anything good/bad about it?

[Flint13]

Question, how has walking the leviathans worked out?

 

My knee-jerk reaction is to say leviathan = leviathan + droppod, but I'm curious as to the practical application. 

 

As for the LoW a Typhon has all those positive reviews for a reason. It's just such a useful toolbox in so many situations. I know I don't have to elaborate on how awesome the cannon is. But! One thing that tends to get overlooked is how awesome it can be for offing primarchs and vehicles. It gets a +1 on the Thunderblitz table, so that's a 5+ to get 2d6 Str10ap2 hits on a very unlucky unit. 

 

As for multiples in the war machine detachment, I imagine it's more a function of the 25% LoW limit or maybe the practical one of next to no one owning two Typhons? It'd be super awesome to see though

 

Lastly, Stormblade. I'm not a big fan of them. The Overload shot gives you that giant 10" template but is only AP2 and is mitigated by cover. Its super frustrating to have 50% of the models you get under that template ignore your star-birthing super weapon 

 

However, the Stormsword will serve you far better. They're only about 30pts more than the Stormblade. However, the siege cannon has the same 10" Str10 template but with ap1 and (far more importantly) Ignores Cover. Ignoring cover is huge in the heresy. It's a rare rule and probably a good reason as to why the Typhon sees so much table time. But yeah, give the Stormsword a try. I can guarantee you won't be disappointed with it.

 

Full disclosure, I have two in my Solar Auxilia 

Edited May 20, 2016 by Flint13

[Carnivore]

Thanks for the detailed explanation Flint - as always, the Queen of the VIIIth (and several other less noteworthy legions lol) delivers .

 

Regarding walking in my Leviathans, I'm happy to say I've had a lot of success with it. I know most everyone rolls a single Leviathan and pods him in, and if you're bringing just one you'd be foolish not to. With Terror Assault's lone HS slot, though, what actually lured me into trying the Rite again was the release of the Leviathan, and finding out you could field three with one slot . And that, in my opinion, has been exactly why it's worked - no one fields three at once, and seeing that line up across the board from you shakes up most people's plan of attack.

 

In most games, their sheer toughness sees all three of them through the first turn of shooting. By turn two my Terminators and Praetor (usually) hit the board, and they provide another priority target that most opponents struggle to delegate fire to while the Terror Squads are already wreaking havoc and the mortars are bombarding them. Once even one of the Leviathans makes it to their target, I'm usually in control of the tempo after that. The Drill/Claw Leviathan is my Primarch/LOW killer, and he has been my MVP in most of my games. The other two definitely pull their weight though, and I've never lost all three before at least one of them made the whole talon's points back for me in enemy casualties. So if I had to summarize it, walking Leviathans CAN work, but only if you bring more than one and have several other units in play that can provide enough threat to give them time to close the distance.

 

That's great to hear about the Typhon - I suspect I'll be picking one up no matter what, just a question of when now lol. And that's disappointing regarding the Stormblade but AMAZING about the Stormsword. If it's good enough for your Solar Auxilia to have two, it's good enough for me . Random sidenote - does the Stormsword have a model? I just realized I've never seen one in person... EDIT : Duh, of course it does. I totally forgot regular GW made Superheavies too, which is a sad commentary on how much Forgeworld has warped my mind lol.

Edited May 20, 2016 by Carnivore

[Caillum]

Can Legions even take a Stormsword? I'm not sure they can...

[Balthamal]

They can as per LCAL

[Caillum]

Yeah, I know the Imperial Armour cut-out part. But the Stormsword is in the Solar Auxilia army list, so it has a "era-specific counterpart listed in a Horus Heresy supplement". I think that discounts it as a Legion option, doesn't it?

 

Don't get me wrong! A Baneblade-level Typhon would rock my world! ;)

[Flint13]

Thanks for the detailed explanation Flint - as always, the Queen of the VIIIth (and several other less noteworthy legions lol) delivers .

 

Regarding walking in my Leviathans, I'm happy to say I've had a lot of success with it. I know most everyone rolls a single Leviathan and pods him in, and if you're bringing just one you'd be foolish not to. With Terror Assault's lone HS slot, though, what actually lured me into trying the Rite again was the release of the Leviathan, and finding out you could field three with one slot . And that, in my opinion, has been exactly why it's worked - no one fields three at once, and seeing that line up across the board from you shakes up most people's plan of attack.

 

In most games, their sheer toughness sees all three of them through the first turn of shooting. By turn two my Terminators and Praetor (usually) hit the board, and they provide another priority target that most opponents struggle to delegate fire to while the Terror Squads are already wreaking havoc and the mortars are bombarding them. Once even one of the Leviathans makes it to their target, I'm usually in control of the tempo after that. The Drill/Claw Leviathan is my Primarch/LOW killer, and he has been my MVP in most of my games. The other two definitely pull their weight though, and I've never lost all three before at least one of them made the whole talon's points back for me in enemy casualties. So if I had to summarize it, walking Leviathans CAN work, but only if you bring more than one and have several other units in play that can provide enough threat to give them time to close the distance.

 

That's great to hear about the Typhon - I suspect I'll be picking one up no matter what, just a question of when now lol. And that's disappointing regarding the Stormblade but AMAZING about the Stormsword. If it's good enough for your Solar Auxilia to have two, it's good enough for me . Random sidenote - does the Stormsword have a model? I just realized I've never seen one in person... EDIT : Duh, of course it does. I totally forgot regular GW made Superheavies too, which is a sad commentary on how much Forgeworld has warped my mind lol.

 

Happy to help

 

Ok, I can totally see Leviathan proliferation working to keep them useful without pods. It actually went straight over my head that you had them all walking in a single talon b/c of Terror Assault. Total derp moment on my part. 

 

Again, in the interest of full disclosure, the only time I actually bring both Stormswords is the occasional request by an opponent to "pull no punches." The Solar Aux list I run with them is pretty aggressively mean.  

 

A single Stormsword is strong, but not overbearingly so. Expect it to become the absolute center of  attention for your opponent though. If you're choosing between the Typhon or the Stormsword, however, I'd actually recommend the Typhon. I think when you factor in the 130-ish points savings compared to the Stormsword, along with the improved Thunderblitz and all around AV14, I think there's a pretty good argument there for it being the better toolbox tank. The Stormsword is amazing, but I think they're probably easier to kill for a clever opponent. 

Edited May 21, 2016 by Flint13

[exsanguis]

Damn that's not a bad idea with the Leviathan's. Walk three of them across the board to soak fire for your Terror Squads and Praetor.

 

Would it almost be worth one having 2x Storm Cannons to sit in the middle of the board and wreck transports so you can choom them?

 

I guess given the points cost per Leviathan, this is only happening at at least 2.5k+?

[Carnivore]

Damn that's not a bad idea with the Leviathan's. Walk three of them across the board to soak fire for your Terror Squads and Praetor.

 

Would it almost be worth one having 2x Storm Cannons to sit in the middle of the board and wreck transports so you can choom them?

 

I guess given the points cost per Leviathan, this is only happening at at least 2.5k+?

Thanks mate - I'm no Sun Tzu when it comes to tactics but I try . It's certainly worked for me so far.

 

I always keep one CC on the Leviathans just because of how monstrous they are in hand-to-hand, but I could totally see a dual Storm Cannon Leviathan hamstringing squads so the Terror Squads can butcher them - very fluffy too .

 

You are correct, I run this list in games of 3000pts or more. I've been able to keep 3 Leviathans at 2000pts, but given the restrictions of the Rite to do it I basically had to neuter either the Terror Squads or the Terminators, so in my experience it's not that realistic at less than 3000pts.  Given most 30k games (at least in my experience) are in the 3000pts or more range, this list as is sees a lot of table-time.

[exsanguis]

So how about something like this for 2000 points:

 

Night Lords Terror Assault 2k - Double Levi (2000pts)

Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (Age of Darkness)

• HQ
  • Legion Praetor

    Cataphractii Terminator Armour with Combi-bolter and Power Weapon, Grenade Harness, Paragon Blade, Teleportation Transponder

    • Master of the Legion

      Terror Assault

• Troops
  • Terror Squad

    9x Executioner, Legion Drop Pod, 10x Volkite Charger

    • Headsman

      Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Nostraman Chainglaive

  • Terror Squad

    9x Executioner, Legion Drop Pod, 10x Volkite Charger

    • Headsman

      Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Nostraman Chainglaive

  • Terror Squad

    9x Executioner, Legion Drop Pod, 10x Volkite Charger

    • Headsman

      Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Nostraman Chainglaive

• Elites
  • Legion Terminator Squad

    Cataphractii Terminator Armour with Combi-bolter and Power Weapon, Chainfist, 4x Combi-Weapon, 4x Legion Terminators, 3x Power Fist, Teleportation Transponder

    • Legion Terminator Sergeant

      Combi-Weapon, Power Fist

• Heavy Support
  • Leviathan Siege Dreadnought Talon
    • Leviathan Siege Dreadnought

      Cyclonic Melta Lance, Leviathan Siege Drill, Phosphex Discharger, 2x Twin-linked Volkite Caliver

    • Leviathan Siege Dreadnought

      Grav-flux Bombard, Leviathan Siege Drill, Phosphex Discharger, 2x Twin-linked Volkite Caliver

• Legion
  • Legion Astartes

    Traitor, VIII: Night Lords

 

My only regret is that there's no Damocles to help the Terminators come in sooner. To get that we'd need to free up 100 points, which we could get from:

2x Leviathan Phosphex Dischargers (30)

2x Leviathan  double Volkite Calivers (20)

Change Power Fists to Power Axes on the Terminators (20)

 

After that I have no idea how I'd free up the last 30 points. It seems cool, but I just wonder how those Leviathans will fare having to trudge up the board. It also makes it easier to focus down the Terror Squads as they'll be dropping in nice and close to choom stuff. I guess it just doesn't work at 2000 points... :(

[Perry]

The problem I see you having is no other form of armour to act as a diversion for the Levies.

 

You can fit a fair bit of Anti-tank in a 2K list, Levies are tough, but not that tough.

[Balthamal]

Yeah bear in mind <500pts can bag you 3 laser destroyer vindicators and that's a wall of pain no sane person would welcome

[Perry]

Anyone found a place for a Siege breaker in a Terror assault list?

 

I got the Cataphractii 2016 event model and it will be a shame not to use him.

 

Probably going to stick him with some Deep Striking Terminators, let loose a few Phospex bombs before charging. Giving Phospex to my Mortars could also be a bonus.

[Charlo]

He's okay to get a bit more anti-tank in your list. You can give the Terminators an auto cannon to get tank Hunter.

 

Phosphex rapiers are amazing too.