[HH1.0] Night Lords Tactics

[AfroCampbell]

In my mind:

 

 

Praetor of choice/Sevatar/Curze

Consul ML3 (telepathy: really helps the Night Lords tactics, and making invisible Jetbikes/Raptors is fawesome) Jump Pack (going w/raptors) or Jetbike

Command Claw same gear than lord.

 

 

3x Mandatory Terror Claws each 10 man strong, 9x chargers, 1x flamer (10x charger if you don't like template weapons ). Take melta-bomb just in case. DP if going all out Claw Assault, infiltrate otherwise.

 

 

 

Jetbikes. Never used them, but in paper a unit of 5 to 7 (expensive) looks good. Add a chainglaive or mounted IC. Fast, shooty & choppy. Nasty

Raptors. Yay, raptors. I think that 10x raptors plus 10x chainglaives is awesomely expensive and choppy. I like that.

 

 

Only option to me (because I don't like NL being armoured co.): Storm Eagle, but I like to spend points elsewere than in HS.

 

Just what I have on the top of my head, aka my 2 winged-skulls.

 my suggestion is dont do the full 10 Chainglaives on the raptors, but do 7-8, because chances are that they will take 2-3 losses on the way into assault. just saves you some points that will just die likely anyway. In fact its a tactic I suggest for a lot of special weapons equipped units. predict your losses and then don't equip the predicted amount

[Brother Aiwass]

Yes, maybe you're right, and that save 30 points or so but, don't know how I feel about the unit visual coherency.

 

Changing the subject a little, how about a Jetbike ommand Claw?

 

Even expensier (if that is even a word), but, every one of them and their mother can have a chainglaive, and volkite chargers. Also artificier amour. Worth it?

[Elazar The Glorified]

I love the Chainglaives but do we think twin Lightning claws are worth the extra investment on the already expensive Raptors?

[TheForgottenAngel]

Guys you're forgetting the cardinal rule about HH....THE RULE OF COOL!!!!

[Elazar The Glorified]

Twin lightning claws it is then! :D

[Verity]

Aye, rule of cool is how my army might ultimately go...

[Kol Saresk]

 

Guys you're forgetting the cardinal rule about HH....THE RULE OF COOL!!!!

That's why the Night Raptors would only have like two or thre chainglaives and nothing else in my army. If I even took them. :P

[TheForgottenAngel]

Lol Seriously Kol I'm itching to get my Dark Angels started but I'm totally picking up some of those traitorous night lords and Sevatar. Just to darn awesome. What's your list looking like btw Kol?

[Kol Saresk]

Don't know yet. I kind of want to make something like a special forces army. The background for it is that they are literally a Company of Night Lords who all bear the Sinners' Red. It'll be the 113th and bear the name "The Sinners of Dusk". As a result, they'll be small. And I want to do something with them by making them actually loyal to each other. Don't get me wrong, there will still be murder duels, they're Night Lords after all!

 

But their Captain, has a series of rules. As they all are living under Curze's Claws(think Damocles' sword), he demands that they watch out for each other. As a company, they cannot afford to fail or they will all die. So, murder duels are highly organized and are followed to the detail. Ritual combat taken only in appropriate circumstances(i.e. outside of a known combat zone) so as not to jeopardize the Company. Any deviation results in the most painful death the Captain can think of at the moment. Unless expediency is required. Once, this meant cutting off one traitor's hands and dumping in a pile of Orks, bound and with no weapons. As it was during an exit from combat after the objectives had been achieved, that specific traitor's fate is unknown, but presumed dead.

 

Ironically, this threat of shared punishment by the Primarch and these rules have resulted in a close-knit bond that resembles something like brotherhood, or at least as whatever can pass as that amongst the literally condemned. They may not care for each other, but having to watch out for each other has caused them to work together with a coordination that even the Iron Hands would respect. So in a way, they have become something that is reminiscent of what the Night Lords once were(elite forces that could easily overwhelm larger forces with superior tactics) as well as what they are now(murderers).

 

So I am most likely shooting for the Terror Squads seem they seem to be exactly what I'm shooting for. But I believe I will forego the Raptors. Might give them some of those new Javelins to provide the killing blow while the Terror squads disorientate everyone.

 

Alternatively, just to make it, I also want to make a list with Assault Troops as the core with Night Raptors making the Fast Attack. A true Raptors list. Just because like every single other Night Lord on the planet, I love me some Raptors. Although I believe the fluff for this list will actually be an Assault Company with a Raptor detachment they picked up after the ambush at Sheol. So no Zso Sahaal.

[Brother Aiwass]

Guys you're forgetting the cardinal rule about HH....THE RULE OF COOL!!!!

 

The Rule of Cool is cool, but since is a tactica thread, I was asking for advice :p

[TheForgottenAngel]

True but rule of cool is a tactic! Bad ass looking models translate into awesomeness!

[Balthamal]

Rule of cool. The oldest and most honoured strategium in the glorious history of tabletop warfare.

 

So long as "honour" and "glory" are taken relatively compared to the VIII......

[Kol Saresk]

Rule of cool. The oldest and most honoured strategium in the glorious history of tabletop warfare.

 

So long as "honour" and "glory" are taken relatively compared to the VIII......

"Glory of the hunt" and "honor among monsters". Even the VIII has a code. :P

[Brother Aiwass]

Well, that's all good and what not. But, I don't know, I'm used to Tactica threads being Tactica threads, not random musings about X faction. Can we have a propper tactica/unit efficiency disscussion? No way to learn nothing reading random off-topic posts.

 

:p

[Kol Saresk]

Except that so far this tactica thread has only been a list-sharing thread. But okay, on topic.

 

How do y'all plan to deal with the Salamanders? Do you think it'll be too much trouble?

 

And what about the iron hands and they're -1S modifier to us shooting at them?

 

If you were running around and you ran into an Iron Father with an Iron Halo, Cyber-familiar and a Paragon Blade, how would y'all deal with it? With the restrictions being you only have your Praetor and Terror squads.

[Brother Aiwass]

Yes, I know.

To answer your questions, and sure not in the most efficient way,

Afaik we can take a Consul, and to me is psyker lvl telepathy to get Inv and some buffs/debuffs.

To deal with Iron Hands Iron Father I guess is the same way what we use to deal with Meganobz/Nob Bikerz. Lots of firepower. I don't know you want to put some restrictions on our army, but as an exercise with only Terror Squads, 10 terrorists w/ 10 volk chargers (it will be 3+/3++ anyways) so the AP is not to be taked in account. That will be one unsaved wound -thank you for only allow me to take one unit type- in the shooting phase. Then assault (1x chainglaive) to kill him (PE Infantry). But I will deal with him with Raptors than terror squads (1+1D3 rending attacks each one, S5 & +1 to wound if outnumbered).

Against the salamanders flameboys assaulting is going to be hard, so generally speaking, I think that the NL tactics have to be guerrilla war, but our burden (as I see it, maybe) is dealing with armour.

And here comes my not-so-in-depth-newbie-ish-analisys of some of the Legion forces:

+++HQ+++

-Praetor: Lots of options. Too many in fact. On the top of my head:
*Artificier Armour: option to take Jumps, Bike or Jetbike.
*TDA: Land Raider or DS.
Mandatory Paragon & Iron-halo.

I don't think that an armoured co. is a viable list for the NL, since we have only one HS slot. So we need mobility. With that in mind, bikes of any type add +1T which is nice. Jetbikes also are very bulky, which is nicer for CC pourposes.

-Consul:
*Psyker LVL3: Telepathy. One of the bests lores imho, because play strong the Night Lords theme, messing with the enemy Ld. Can take bikes of any type, jumps or TDA.

*Vigilator: good to be attached to a Seeker or Recon squad. Since we have limited FA slots, I guess it's better to go with Recon squads and leave the FA ones for bikers, raptors and tarantulas.

-Command squad: You may want to give them bikes or jetbikes. Those are expensive, but allow to take more fast options.

+++ELITES+++

-Terminators: We have an added toy: Transponders. The weapon of choice would be combi-melta/plasma, one chainfist, one RAC. DS in front of something and obliterate it. Not the cheapest option, but hey, since they are coming at turn 2 at the best, DSing behind the enemy lines and causing havoc it's always good. Or take a squad of 10 of them in a Caestus and go crazy.

+++TROOPS+++

-Terror squads: They're mandatory as a troop choices (three of them nonetheless). Not bad, not expensive. Volk chargers is the best option imho, maybe one flamer if you fear(!) to be assaulted. Infiltrate i the way to go, unless you go all in with a Claw Assault.

-Recon squads: Great as a support choice with Recon Armor and Sniper rifles. Just infiltrate them and start pinning people. I will take 2x5 man squads. Maybe one of 8-10 models if Vigilator attached (Which I don't, because of the Psyker).

+++FAST ATTACK+++

-Outrider squad: Cheaper than jetbikes, high mobility, T5. Capable of deal with hordes, heavy infantry (PG) or tank hunting (MG) and are scouting. A solid option. Squads of 5-6 for harassing units, 6-9 for HQ escort/close combat hunters.

-Sky Hunter squad: Almost the same as the ouriders, not as good in CC (that is, have less options for CC), but compensate with high-mobility heavy weapons and very bulky (for outnumbering enemies pourposes). Ideal unit is 6-7 with two HW upgrades (MM if you're facing lots of armor, if not then plasma cannon).

-Land Speeder squad: Depends of your needs, but 3 to 5 of them with plasma cannons looks like

-Tarantula battery: Not a fan of those, but a unit of 3 with at least one being Hyperios Command is an option to consider.

-Primaris-Lightning: Two words: Phosphex Bombs.

-Raptor squad: Lovely. With the hability to take chargers and chainglaives the whole squad, they'll be a pain in CC. A unit of 10-12 fully geared is expensive as hell, but can crush almost any infantry unit in combat (bare terminators variations).

+++HEAVY SUPPORT+++

-Deathstorm Drop Pod: With Krak missiles. Take it just for lols. Or better yet, take it to cripple the enemy armour, being alone or in a Claw Assault army.

----

You can see, I left out lots of units.that's mostly because: a\ I don't know it well, b\ I don't see it fit.

Now feel free to tear it appart, expand, critic, whatever. I want to learn HH NL tactics, not explain them (that's why I was asking for advice, not offering) because I don't know.

Edited October 21, 2013 by Maximvs

[Kol Saresk]

Well the restriction was based on that most of us are using the Terror Assault Rite of War. So the most common unit will be the Terror Sqaud and can form an easy point of reference for us all to look at.

[Balthamal]

And bear in mind that with the RoW there are 3 compulsory troops choices, which HAVE to be Terror Squads. The other 3 troops choices are fair game although I can't see taking assault squads when Night Raptors are abounding. The tactical support squads might have some mileage given that terror squads are more suited to assault (2 attacks plus a charge for going down the bolter route) and with the options for drop pods for them, happy days

[Brother Aiwass]

That's why I like recon squads as a troops support (recon armour & sniper rifles, camaleonine and nuncio-vox). In case of doubt, of course take more terror squads. The FA section however is pretty crowded, and that's why I leaning toward some command squad with bikes/jetbikes, to relieve some pressure of that slot.

[Galron]

You dont mention Assault Squads. I plan on at least a full squad of 20 with my Praetor. The extra numbers are in order to soak charging wounds and still be able to take advantage of A Talent for Murder. You also dont mention the bad boys, the Destroyer squad with jump packs and their Mortariot(however its spelled) with twin plasma pistols. These guys coming in from an outflank are nasty, and definately something fluffy NL would use.

 

Looking at your list you have very little dedicated anti-armor. In my list I am planning on two vet squads in drop pods with twin meltas in each. Someone will have to take on dreads and contemptors before they bog you down. Another note I personally recommend is melta bombs on any sergeant and IC that can take one.

 

Hey a question I had about one of the NL traits that had me puzzled. Seeds of Dissent- Until this morning I had read into it thinking it was the drawback for all the good stuff of the NL and only affected my own NL army. Now I read it again and am thinking its the opponent's army. Which is it?

[Verity]

It's our downside, although I could see where the confusion would arise. The key bit is "each unit in the army with this special rule", meaning it's us that take the checks - a bit of a shame, cause I could see it as fluffy if you assassinated the enemy warlord and forced morale checks.

[Brother Aiwass]

Yes, I left over lots of units. I also said that was not an in-depth analisys nor an experienced one.

 

You're right about the assault squads. So much right.

 

And speaking of the Destroyers, while yes, I see it fitting, that one I only forget it. I also like rad weapons and rad stuff. That was a mistake.

 

Not sure about the moritat, I think that our limitation about only one consul forces us to take one who can sinergize/maximize the streghts of the army. The Vigilator and the Moritat albeit good upgrades, don't do much army wide/to buff the army, so to speak, then I'm not sure. But always open to learn.

 

Would be nice to see you army list with a brief (or wall of text) explanation on strenghts, tactics and sinergies.

 

Cheers.

 

EDIT:

 

For AT, melta bombs in every sarge/squad. Bikers and Jetbikers can have very good AT with meltagun/multimelta. DSing terminators with combi-weapons too.

 

Not sure about Seed of Disdent, is a little confusing the wording of that rule. It seems that you will run aswell if you kill the enemy lord.

Edited October 21, 2013 by Maximvs

[Galron]

I havent had time or book yet to fully go through the new list based on the right of war but here is what I have so far.

Praetor-jump pack and all the normal stuff + melta bombs

Moritat- art armor, jump pack, plasma pistol x2, melta bombs

 

Vet squad x10 2x meltaguns drop pod(sgt at least has melta bombs)

Vet Squad x10 2x Meltaguns drop pod(sgt at least has MB)

Destroyers x10 2x ML, jump packs, melta bombs on sgt

 

Terror Squad x10 meltabombs on sgt(not sure yet on special weapons)Drop Pod

Terror Squad x10 Meltabombs on Sgt(not sure yet on special weapons)Drop pod

Terror Squad x10 MeltaBombs on Sgt(not sure on special wpns) Infiltrating

Assault Squad x20 2x hand flamers, sgt with twin lightning claws and melta bombs

 

Raptors with whatever points I have left, half with chain glaves

 

Again I dont have the rules for terror squads and dont know what special weapons they get, If they have access to meltaguns I likely will replace the Vet squads or at least one vet squad. I want to fit in a Mortis Contemptor for some AA since I place against 40k armies.

Edited October 21, 2013 by Galron

[Brother Aiwass]

Looks nice.

 

Terror marines can't take specials (only one rotor or flamer per unit). But can take bolters or volkite chargers or heavy chainblades. Can also infiltrate. Raptors however can take up to one meltagun for every 5 models.

 

If you go after an alpha strike, which seems likely, I guess the vets are your best bet for AT.

 

How does your Moritat in games? is not killing himself with dual plasmas? Have you tried the phosphex bombs?

[depthcharge12]

Yeah that Iron father looks nasty with a 2+/3++ (only horus and ferrus have that!!!)

 

 

A praetor and terror squad might not fit what you need to take him on and I would advise a french advance when faced with that, unless you are waaay confident to take him down.

 

 

Best solution is to send a contemptor dread against him (preferably cc).

 

I think just ignoring him would be fine since he is really slow, unless he's riding around in a tank.

 

 

Using the "Nostraman Curbstomp,"

I plan to drop my pie plate of cataphractii terminators next to the Iron father and unleash a plasma blaster, reaper autocannon, and 7 combi bolters on the iron father and his retinue to thin them out.

 

I have 6 power axes, a chainfist, and a power maul (and a lightning claw, and 1 with twin lightning claws, but they aren't useful in this situation) to deal with the iron father.

 

Im banking on higher strength close combat attacks to knock him down. I think the best weapons in this situation are the power maul and chainfist, with the maul providing concussion so that the axes and chainfist can burn through him.