[HH1.0] Night Lords Tactics

[Bat33.1]

So is there any consensus on units that are simply must takes in a NL list? I am trying to decide on more Forge World kit to bulk out the BaC box, along with Curze, Sev, terror squad bits, volkite chargers for terrors, 15 raptors, 2 leviathans, 3 legion drop pods and a dreadclaw.

 

Leviathans sound like they have lots of supporters to take the heavy slot in TA list especially as multiples can be taken whilst sticking to the single heavy restriction. I've got two currently with a few arms to magnatize them but no dread pods.

 

How universal are Lightning fighters? Are they really a solid choice as an all-rounder for NL or do they work better in a meta with more air units?

 

I am considering picking up a couple of speeders rather than a lightning?

 

Quad mortars also seem to be popular but I'm not sold on them for NL, they feel more like fists, IW or even Ultramarine weapons than NL? I mean how can you skin your enemy after blowing him into little bits? ;)

 

I don't see to many jetbikes in lists either is this down to the looks of the model or is there something else in the FA slot that is just much more suitable for NL?

 

Sorry for so many questions I've been trying to read back through this thread but it's getting pretty long now :)

[helterskelter]

Sicaran or deredeo in a terror assault for the heavy slot. I mean sure if you have 400 odd points to spank on a drop levi it is a phenomenal and effective distraction panda, however I'm a diversity kinda guy and I enjoy multipurpose tools.

A deredeo can engage air and ground targets with its anvillus autocannon and aiolos missile launcher (that also hits side armour so bonus) plus chest HB for a bit of extra shooty goodness. If you're feeling like you're going to encounter minimal melta (like one meltagun in the entire enemy army) go armoured ceramite to keep him alive. Vs massed melta all likelihood ap1 is gonna get you perished so there's little to no point in paying for the upgrade.

Sicaran can engage a variety of targets all the way up to Spartans (rending, yay) and for the same points ish as a deredeo, you can take lascannon sponsons, 2 hunter killer missiles, and if you're feeling super saucy add a pintle weapon for more killing. And as it's a fast vehicle you can reposition and fire many to all the things depending on how far you move.

Also anything that takes advantage of talent for murder and can murder in combat well are musts for NL.

If you go for speeders take javelin for strafing run (makes shooting bs5 Vs ground targets) arm to the teeth for maximum effect (2 hunter killers, melta, Las or cyclone [Las for stopping power, cyclone for Hull point stripping])

[Terminus]

Fire Raptor with the new improved missiles. I'm building one to be basically interchangeable with my Deredeo depending on whether I'm running a ground or orbital/jetbike list.

[Lord Asvaldir]

I'm a big fan of leviathans for terror assault. Sure they are expensive, but given you can't take a lot of armor in a terror list I'd rather take something with high armor values and HP, plus with a melta lance and siege drill it's going to wreck any vehicle it comes in contact with. Even has a shot at taking out a knight that's been weakened if the leviathan charges. I'm also a big fan of javelins, even before they got a major buff with the newest book I found they were a solid, cheap anti tank option for terror assault, now with a pts drop and strafing run they are even better. 

[Dhar'Neth]

Fire Raptor with the new improved missiles. I'm building one to be basically interchangeable with my Deredeo depending on whether I'm running a ground or orbital/jetbike list.

How were they upgraded?

[Charlo]

 

Fire Raptor with the new improved missiles. I'm building one to be basically interchangeable with my Deredeo depending on whether I'm running a ground or orbital/jetbike list.

How were they upgraded?

 

S8 AP2, no longer Ordnance (so they don't make you snapshot with other weapons)

[Caillum]

Hellstrike missiles are now 72" S8 AP2 Heavy 1, Sunder, One Use Only. Fire Raptors can swap their 4 Tempest missiles for Hellstrikes for 20 points. The upgrade is worth it, but it's also 20 points you might need to drop to save points (if it comes to it).

[Plaguemaker]

Hey brothers, long time follower of this thread first time poster, thought it was about time to at least occasionally chime in and reap the benefits of your experience ;)

I was curious if anyone has had any luck or use running Storm Eagle's?

[Flint13]

I've got one but he sadly only very rarely sees the table.

 

Unfortunately the dual cons of high points cost and unreliable arrival see him guarding the shelf more often than not :(

[Charlo]

I've got one but he sadly only very rarely sees the table.

 

Unfortunately the dual cons of high points cost and unreliable arrival see him guarding the shelf more often than not

 

Aye. I never understood why flyers HAVE to start off board or can't come on turn 1. Seems a weird restriction that only Perturabo can call in jets turn one.

[Bat33.1]

I'm a big fan of leviathans for terror assault. Sure they are expensive, but given you can't take a lot of armor in a terror list I'd rather take something with high armor values and HP, plus with a melta lance and siege drill it's going to wreck any vehicle it comes in contact with. Even has a shot at taking out a knight that's been weakened if the leviathan charges. I'm also a big fan of javelins, even before they got a major buff with the newest book I found they were a solid, cheap anti tank option for terror assault, now with a pts drop and strafing run they are even better. 

 

What weapon options do you take on your javelins? 2xHK missiles no doubt but lascannons or missiles? Is melta worth the points in 30K due to armoured ceramite and do you even want them getting close enough to use the MM option?

[Flint13]

^My favorite is lascannon, melta and 2xHK.

 

I could see the argument for armored ceramite neutering the melta, but honestly, super heavy front armor and Spartans aren't exactly an optimal target for Javs anyway.

[Terminus]

I dig the lascannon, but the cyclone has several things going for it.  You could argue it gets more utility out of BS5 with its two shots rather than the lascannon's one TL one when it comes to stripping hull points of light/medium vehicles.  It's also 10 points cheaper, which lets you buy those HK missiles, and with a multi-melta you got 5 S8 attacks. The mathematical symmetry pleases me. 

 

Doing the rough math (which I could share, don't lynch me for empirical analysis! :P), the missile launcher is more consistent at stripping hull points while the lascannon has the opportunity to cause an explosion.  They average roughly same number of hull point damage vs. AV13 (missile launcher ~7.5% chance to glance twice, lascannon ~5% chance to blow it up), with the math skewing in the launcher's favor as you lower the armor value.

 

I would say if you're facing primarily Rhinos/Predators/Vindicators/Whirlwinds/Cortus contemptors/Javelins/et al, the launcher is the "best" choice on paper while the lascannon is the "fun" choice that will occasionally perform spectacularly. For heavier vehicles, I'd lean lascannon just for the shenanigans. If facing AV12 skimmers (kharybdis, eagle, dreadclaw) which can jink, or the heavier dreadnoughts with invulnerable saves all around (Deredeo, Leviathan, Contemptor Prime or Mortis), the missile launcher will be more consistent at pushing through some damage, and the lascannon has an even wilder hail mary pass to make. 

 

I'd probably go with the lascannon too, just feels more javeliny.

[Bat33.1]

I suppose there could be some utility in taking a mix of options on the Javelin, say two with las and a single with missile? They are not expensive in points terms and FA isn't a slot that seems under pressure with too many choices? I guess it depends on the RoW as Horror Cult moves raptors to troops and Terror has them in FA?

 

Sorry for some of the basic questions as I've done little 40k gaming for a long time, plenty of building and painting plus novels but my gaming has mainly been WHFB but you can guess the rest on that and this isn't the place anyway. So I've decided to jump in properly with 30k and it has been gaining more players locally too with some tournaments popping up now. My version of tournament play is turn up to get 3 or 4 games in a day and hopefully not loose them all, oh and maybe get something from any paint comps running in parallel ;)

[Plaguemaker]

Preferred method of delivery system for Night Raptors, or just Assault Marines in general?

Of course definitely want to make the most use out of a Talent for Murder, without needing to necessarily have them zooming up the board and being too susceptible to open ground shooting.

[Lord Asvaldir]

When it comes to jump infantry really your only option is deep striking or not deep striking-most transports can't transport jump infantry, with a few exceptions like a thunderhawk though flying transports are generally a bad choice for assault units, since you can't assault till turn three. Deep striking is bad for the same reason, plus if get a bad run roll in the turn you deep strike in one accurate blast shot is going to ruin your unit. The only exception is the vanguard drop assault RoW, given it forces snap shots at assault marines I could see that working out. Besides that though, you're really stuck with footslogging, which isn't a bad thing. You've moving up around fifteen inches a turn including run moves, and you've got the night lords cover bonus in the first turn to help you out. Unless you're playing against a really defensive army, a turn 2 assault shouldn't be too hard to pull off. I just find the key to running jump infantry is have some other threats for your opponent to deal with, like infiltrating terror squads or something in drop pods so your raptors aren't focused on early game. 

[Bat33.1]

When it comes to jump infantry really your only option is deep striking or not deep striking-most transports can't transport jump infantry, with a few exceptions like a thunderhawk though flying transports are generally a bad choice for assault units, since you can't assault till turn three. Deep striking is bad for the same reason, plus if get a bad run roll in the turn you deep strike in one accurate blast shot is going to ruin your unit. The only exception is the vanguard drop assault RoW, given it forces snap shots at assault marines I could see that working out. Besides that though, you're really stuck with footslogging, which isn't a bad thing. You've moving up around fifteen inches a turn including run moves, and you've got the night lords cover bonus in the first turn to help you out. Unless you're playing against a really defensive army, a turn 2 assault shouldn't be too hard to pull off. I just find the key to running jump infantry is have some other threats for your opponent to deal with, like infiltrating terror squads or something in drop pods so your raptors aren't focused on early game. 

 

I would guess a drop pod Leviathan would be a big enough distraction carnifex in the opponents back line? ;)

[Terminus]

It does force snap shots, but only within 12". Night Lords have natural affinity for this Rite (I think it's their power Rite now, Terror Assault isn't what used to be).

 

The Rite combined with the Legion perks is basically like a somewhat better version of Day of Revelation: both allow first turn deep strike of assault marines; in DoR the assault marines have 5+ cover, while NLs have 5+ on everyone and can try for nightfighting for a 4+; DoR deep striking infantry gains pinning (not very useful or usable), DAV assault marines force snap shots on everyone within 12" automatically; NLs are +1 to wound and to hit when outnumbering, BL are +1 to wound always and +1I when charging.

[helterskelter]

In horror cult raptors can have a kharybdis

[Charlo]

In horror cult raptors can have a kharybdis

 

Nope. Infantry only (so not jump infantry, which the Kharybdis can't even carry anyway!) and for a very wonky 260 points as that is what the rule specifically states!

[helterskelter]

 

 

In horror cult raptors can have a kharybdis

Nope. Infantry only (so not jump infantry, which the Kharybdis can't even carry anyway!) and for a very wonky 260 points as that is what the rule specifically states!

My bad, misreading for the win!

[1ncarnadine]

 

Nope. Infantry only (so not jump infantry, which the Kharybdis can't even carry anyway!) and for a very wonky 260 points as that is what the rule specifically states!

 

 

I see that in Book VI it says 260 points, but my iBooks Enhanced Edition of LA:AoD (yes, the version rife with errors) just says "may take a Kharybdis Assault Claw as a Dedicated Transport." Can someone with a hard copy confirm? Might be another little change, and definitely a positive one. Kharybdis at the lower price would make the Horror Cult rite a bit more interesting..

Edited August 12, 2016 by LetsYouDown

[Runefyre]

 

 

Nope. Infantry only (so not jump infantry, which the Kharybdis can't even carry anyway!) and for a very wonky 260 points as that is what the rule specifically states!

 

 

I see that in Book VI it says 260 points, but my iBooks Enhanced Edition of LA:AoD (yes, the version rife with errors) just says "may take a Kharybdis Assault Claw as a Dedicated Transport." Can someone with a hard copy confirm? Might be another little change, and definitely a positive one. Kharybdis at the lower price would make the Horror Cult rite a bit more interesting..

 

I can confirm, in the latest iteration of Horror Cult, it doesn't specify a price for the kharybdis, so 230 points is a go!

[Terminus]

Add a meltabomb to that.

[Runefyre]

Hm, my book is incorrect then.

 

Can we get cross-confirmation?