[HH1.0] Night Lords Tactics

[Terminus]

I got the epub and iTunes version.

[Slips]

My Physical Copy is 235 and my Itunes is also 235

[helterskelter]

http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz184/Lamenterkyle/Mobile%20Uploads/Screenshot_2016-08-13-13-13-05_zpsmg5csbww.png

 

Is this a battlescribe glitch I have to report to millicant perhaps?

 

Edit: confirmed in 3 places. I funnily enough do go to specsavers

Edited August 13, 2016 by helterskelter

[Terminus]

Erm, that shows 235 for me.  And we now have confirmation that all three versions of the red book have 235.  Maybe it's a glitch you need to report to your opthamologist? :P

[helterskelter]

Edit. I so need to learn to read. It's been a long week and I'm not in weekend mode yet! Edited August 13, 2016 by helterskelter

[Terminus]

I don't know about you, but my "Weekend Mode" usually involves several factors that degrade my reading comprehension, so it only gets worse from here!

[exsanguis]

How do Night Lords do with Pride of the Legion? Is it worth avoiding Marksmen and hitting up Weapon Masters and kitting them out for close combat?

[Vaz]

Been building my night lords for over two years now...

 

Looking at the changes, and my thoughts towards it.

 

Assault marines are amazing for Night Lords. I feel like running one or two giant blobs ahead of a Night Raptor unit (10) to roll up an enemy flank.

 

Terror squad's remain interesting to me, but I feel outflank on Vet squad's looks pretty good. 

 

I feel like with the changes, you can mix our special units in a ratio of 1:1 or 1:2 with basic units and get a good deal of value of that arrangement. 

[Terminus]

Night Raptors are way worse off than Terror Squads. You're paying like 75-100 points for onslaught?

[helterskelter]

Night Raptors are way worse off than Terror Squads. You're paying like 75-100 points for onslaught?

Wouldn't say worse off its more an application of force, raptors can deal with deathstars while not needing to be one themselves provided they're kept well and used right, and work rather nicely with terror assault thanks to night time charging if the dice gods favour you so. With an added chappy and chainglaives for rending all basic dude's being the I5 on the charge(in the dark) take 15 (10 can do it in smaller matches) is gonna end badly for the receiving end.

 

Terror squads will always always always be worth the points when you arm them right. They can do everything. Preferred enemy infantry (vets can't have this) precision strike and shot I believe still (vets can't get this either), volkite thins the hoard for tfm and can still have their BP and ccw, so shoot and charge, lucky 6's can be dumped on sarges and hidden weapons, and cause fear, and have infiltrate/outflank naturally. They're a beautiful squad.

Granted vets can get sniper flamers and all that jazz but some vet benefits can be made up elsewhere on the list with other items.

[Flint13]

^The issue though, is with the Night Raptor unit you're describing, chainglaives and a chaplain, is a staggering amount of points in a unit that can hit pretty hard and is mobile, but is no more sturdy than a tactical marine squad.

 

That's about 450pts all together, and every casualty that unit takes reduces its combat effectiveness sharply. Which they'll take pretty quickly Bc they can't have a transport.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love the Night Raptor asthetic and I've got a unit, but they're really working at least a 50pt premium just for onslaught.

[helterskelter]

Probably should have clarified not everyone needs to take a glaive, due to the rather large expense you listed, and because the extra weight of dice is required for the killing of things in the form of Bp and ccw, if for example you took a neat unit if you managed to hit something with a full onslaught there's 76 dice being rolled. Which in itself could be enough to justify the cost of onslaught.

In real terms not everyone will make it and dice aren't always your friend, and in games it's different horses for different courses, but forcing many dice on saving rolls gets results. That's why people take militia cult (yes theyre filthy cheap but as a principle of weight of dice they're paragons).

[Terminus]

You are sinking a lot of points for a conditional bonus (need the charge), that 1/3 of the time is the standard charging bonus.  That 75 point difference buys you 5 more assault marines (and enough left over for artificer armor on the Sgt), which gives you more bodies, thus more bodies make it to the other side, and that's a guaranteed 15 extra attacks on the charge plus 5 more bolt pistols.  By your own metric they fail to pass muster.

[SkimaskMohawk]

The weapons skill 5 is huge with talent for murder

[Terminus]

Fair enough, but is it worth 75 points for WS5 and onslaught for a 10-man unit?

 

The Sgt can't even take a power fist and the chainblades are a trap (cost 2x more than for terror squads while having 1/2 as many base attacks... derp).

 

Depending on what they roll for Onslaught, the 10-man Raptor squad hits 26/34/42 times (when vs. WS4).  The 15-man Assault Squad hits 30 times. So except for the sweet 33% of the time when you get a charge with a full onslaught bonus, their performance is pretty similar. The assault squad ends up having equal or better options with 3 power weapons and a power fist/combat shield for Sgt, and are Troops in any Rite.

 

I don't know, maybe in a 3000 point game where the extra cost isn't too difficult to absorb and you have Kurze to really turn them up and tank for them with a jump pack apothecary in tow. The models are indeed lovely, if I played Night Lords (and the rules make it tempting, I just can't click with the background) I'd buy a bucket of them and run them as awesome-looking Assault Marines.  Maybe even throw some bits from 40K Raptors in there, too.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Some lists where I take a herald it can really make the scary if you manage to get a charge off from in the bubble, or even just propel them up the field in a terror assault list with the +2 to running 

[Terminus]

The Herald is annoying in not being able to take a bike or jump pack or terminator armor for teleporation. For Night Lords and Emperor's Children I thought a Banner of the Eye would be a very nice buff, but how do you get him where he needs to be?  The only real option seems to be with a combat unit in a Dreadclaw, which means you're loading it with what? A command squad + apothecary seems nice, but Talent for Murder is very difficult to achieve for a 7-man unit.  WS5 Veterans with power weapons? 8 with vexilla, artificer/powerfist sgt, and 3 power weapons is 201 points. 65 for Apothecary, 130 for Herald, 115 for Dreadclaw, 511 points total.  Not too bad.

 

What do your lists look like that run a Herald and Raptors?

Edited August 15, 2016 by Terminus

[Balthamal]

When it comes to Raptors I only use them when running Curze. Having that bonus cover save is massive for them managing to hit the enemy line. That said you definitely have to be selective with where they go. As with all things Night Lords and assault TfM should be the upmost thing in mind. Raptors manage it easier on account of being bulky and if you luck out and 2/3 HoW attacks that can work to make it happen easier. And make no mistake when it does come together they can hit like an absolute train. The downside I find is that when I run with Konrad, either he's killing half the unit on his own or he's in combat with other Primarchs and their terminator retinues.

 

At least with Terror Squads you're getting far, far more utility. They're probably the best anti-infantry unit in 30K. 

[Black_out]

Here's a tactic I learned over the weekend. Don't be so oblivious on the battlefield as to allow Sevatar to end up in combat with a unit of Ultramarine Invictus Suzerain. Good god that unit is ridiculous

[LtDan]

Any of you guys had any success running teleporting terminators?

[SkimaskMohawk]

Yea. Teleporters and combi plasma. Makes for a good slayer unit

[Aeternus]

Here's a tactic I learned over the weekend. Don't be so oblivious on the battlefield as to allow Sevatar to end up in combat with a unit of Ultramarine Invictus Suzerain. Good god that unit is ridiculous

 

  Your Sev actually got into combat! Mine rarely makes it into charge range. But yeah, don't pick a fight with Suzerains. Or ultra units in general. Or anything 2W 2+ with ap3 (legion termies) 

[Runefyre]

Legion termies only have 1 wound a piece. But yeah Sevatar really needs a land raider to get from here to there. I REALLY wish he had artificer armour (or the option for termie armour, he is the master of the atrementar after all).

 

Here's a tactic I learned over the weekend. Don't be so oblivious on the battlefield as to allow Sevatar to end up in combat with a unit of Ultramarine Invictus Suzerain. Good god that unit is ridiculous

Yeah it's a good thing Ultramarine legion rules don't tailor to close combat. But my suzies almost always buckle when faced with a hard unit like cataphractii termies.

 

They also really dislike plasma, as they only get a 6++ against it. I've had many an expensive unit blown of the map in one turn of solid plasma shooting. So definitely consider plasma cataphractii termies when facing Ultramarines again.

[Slips]

Doesn't he have Precog for re-rolls to his saves meaning he has a 4++ rerollable thanks to his Iron Halo.

 

Having a 2+ Rerollable Armour save might be just a biiiiit too good.

[Runefyre]

It's far from a guarantee to cast precog though. My buddie who plays him rarely gets use of it as D6+1 warp charges just isn't consistent enough.