[HH1.0] Night Lords Tactics

[Terminus]

As it is right now, he's a the only character that at initiative 6 (sometimes 7) can get 5 attacks that hit and wound on 2s with rerolls to everything, as well as supporting deepstrike and outflank gameplay. For 175.

To be fair, any Emperor's Children character and both of their unique units can reach I7 in a challenge.

 

The silly thing about Sevatar is you can deep strike terminator command squads without scatter around him, but he doesn't actually let you take a terminator command squad. Whomp whomp. The worst Warlord Trait in the history of the world doesn't help either.  I think Ophian is better.

Edited August 18, 2016 by Terminus

[SkimaskMohawk]

Don't get me started on how they didn't actually fix named characters and different command squad load outs. Kurze can take a Terminator command squad...but still no jump pack one. Same with eidolon. Ophion is theoretically very good, if he doesn't get one shot in melee or killed in shooting where his invul save doesn't improve. I'd still take sev over him for sheer killing and for a more survivability. His trait definitely isn't the worst either

[Tychii]

The problem with sevetar is clearly in his warlord trait. If it was a random one I think he would be much better then the current one. And his special deep striking rule at the moment is clunky although flavourful.

I have always liked him and he generally does work, although in a bit of a high risk high reward kind of way. He is unfortunately sigismond light, and because of that being able to assassinate someone like 50% of the time just is't really good enough as if he fails he gets punished incredibly hard.

 

I hope hey make another version of him later on, and hopefully he comes out along side the atremetar which we are all waiting for.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Really? With one of them being the absolute worst warlord trait of fear, and another being made irrelevant from teleport transponders? Master Tactician is only good if you have units that can be strong from reserve and deploy first, and apparently from whats been said, putting units in reserve isn't favoured. World Burner is good if you have a lot of quad launchers, Paladin of glory is good only for fearless, but a lot of you guys seem to put him in a command squad so its really not that great. Paladin of Glory is pretty nice, works best when you wound on a 2+.

 

So a total of 1 warlord trait that's always good, three that are always bad and two that are list dependant. Compared to a fixed warlord trait that you can always list build around and which makes powerful, but always overlooked units (javelins and outriders) extremely potent out of outflank. Also remember that Vets get Outflank from Marksmen, so thats another very strong unit that can benefit from him in a Pride list.

 

He's a glass cannon for sure, but still able to do moderate tanking with his power. 

 

I'm afraid some of you guys just need to be a bit better, and I say this in the nicest way possible; whether its in list making to take advantage of his warlord and MoA rules or placement and maneuvering in game to avoid putting him against strong counters. It'd be like complaining that Curze needs to be buffed to kill dreadnoughts because you keep on throwing him against them.

[LtDan]

I'm building my terror squads soon. I am going to make 2 volkite squads and one heavy chainblade one(for rule of cool) anybody actually have any success running them? Or mixed squads? Cheers

[Charlo]

Terror Squads are some of the best squads in the game IMO. Chargers and combat prowess with some heavy blades thrown in for fun is great.

[SkimaskMohawk]

I really wish they could get chargers and heavy blades. Would be dirt nasty, but you'd pay for it

[Black_out]

Usually when I run them it's always Volkite equipped and they do work fairly well. Shooting plus combat will usually handle what you throw them at (within reason of course)

[Balthamal]

When running Terror Assault I have 2 kitted out in full Volkites and one geared for combat in a pod. Likely the best unit vs non terminator infantry in the game imo

[Charlo]

In true nightlord fashion, they are designed to just fully CULL anything that isn't an Astartes, but they do good work against those too....

[Perry]

I'm building my terror squads soon. I am going to make 2 volkite squads and one heavy chainblade one(for rule of cool) anybody actually have any success running them? Or mixed squads? Cheers

 

I currently run with two Volkite squads and one chainblade unit

 

I did it for the rule of cool factor but to be honest I wish I had a third Volkite unit as they are that good

[Terminus]

Really? With one of them being the absolute worst warlord trait of fear, and another being made irrelevant from teleport transponders? Master Tactician is only good if you have units that can be strong from reserve and deploy first, and apparently from whats been said, putting units in reserve isn't favoured. World Burner is good if you have a lot of quad launchers, Paladin of glory is good only for fearless, but a lot of you guys seem to put him in a command squad so its really not that great. Paladin of Glory is pretty nice, works best when you wound on a 2+.

What fool rolls on the AoD warlord chart, when you can roll Strategic that's all gold?  Random trait would be way better than what Sevvy has now.

[SkimaskMohawk]

 

Really? With one of them being the absolute worst warlord trait of fear, and another being made irrelevant from teleport transponders? Master Tactician is only good if you have units that can be strong from reserve and deploy first, and apparently from whats been said, putting units in reserve isn't favoured. World Burner is good if you have a lot of quad launchers, Paladin of glory is good only for fearless, but a lot of you guys seem to put him in a command squad so its really not that great. Paladin of Glory is pretty nice, works best when you wound on a 2+.

What fool rolls on the AoD warlord chart, when you can roll Strategic that's all gold?  Random trait would be way better than what Sevvy has now.

 

 

I mean, yes the strategic is the best table, usually.  It just so happens that in a Sevetar lead Terror Assault list (the most common list I've seen people talk about around here recently), that a lot of the traits just aren't that relevant.

 

Conqueror of Cities: Stealth is usually granted by Night Fight for 2 turns, which is where the majority of shooting takes place in my experiences with the game, though move through cover can be very useful. I tend to only play urban boards so the stealth would always kick in for me, but some players aren't quite so lucky with terrain so it might not end up doing anything with a jungle/forest board.

 

Night Attacker: Useless in Terror Assault

 

Master of Ambush 2, the Re-Ambushing: Sevetar gets Infiltrate and can join TMs, might be useful if the list has midrange shooting like seekers? Not quite as OP as it is in other lists.

 

Strategic Genius: People didn't like the uses of Sev's MoA with power units because they have to be in reserve, I'll apply that disdain evenly. List dependent for sure.

 

Divide to Conquer: Generally good, depends on enemy Reserves

 

Princeps of Deceit: Could be useful? Maybe? Extremely variable that  is affected by enemy LD, transports and Fearless bubbles. Usually trash

 

So in total you have 3 that are kind of rendered moot by TA, 1 that requires the abhorred Reserves, 1 that's almost always bad, and 1 thats usually good. I think the AoD chart actually has more potential for a TA list, with his innate trait still winning out because of its reliability and how you can go into list building with it in mind

[Terminus]

I don't know if he'd be the guy to go to for Terror Assault at all then.  If building around his trait, immediate suspects are Javelins and Veteran Marksmen. Javelins are universal, but the marksmen are more infantry after you spent like 1000 points on terror squads and their transports.

 

As far as traits, Ophion's stubborn to everyone within 12" and re-rolling the end of game dice is a lot more applicable in Terror Assault, as far as I see it. He seems more survivable, too.

[SkimaskMohawk]

I'd take outriders over the vets personally, those twinlinked plasmas are just so good.

 

The problem with ophion is that to be actually decent you need to be losing and he needs to be low on wounds, with his extendo-trait coming in at the end of the game. So the more you're tanking the less likely it is for him to use the extension. 

 

None of the Warlord HQ choices actually synergize with terror assault all too well honestly; Sev is good in Pride, while Ophion is good...somewhere? I'd have to have a model made to actually test him out and make lists around him.  Either way both Sev and Ophion, while good, are more for flavor, and less like Dynat or Maun who synergize really well with specific RoWs.

 

The thing is, there's definitely more nuance to using sevetar than a lot of people seem willing to admit. Drive him at the enemy deathstar without taking any teleport terminators or outflankers and yea, Sigi is definitely worth the 65pts more in comparison. Drive him at a flank held by a blob and have combi plas terminators ready to counter any elite unit that gets sent to cut him off, with outriders and javs able to back him up as needed or cut through the other side of their force. Tactical and strategic ability can really make a difference for some characters 

[Terminus]

Again, all that sounds great but where are you finding the points for bikes and terminators after 1000 points in core troops? I mean I guess only 1 heavy slot means you got points to spend elsewhere (and I guess the ideal HS is a Leviathan in a pod), but that's still a whole lot of infantry.  It would be nice if he could take terminator armor or a jump pack, so he could roll with a combat squad that could actually benefit from Talent for Murder.  I am not fond of the combat squads I end up building for him, whether it's veterans or a command squad.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Oh, I didn't necessarily mean in a terror assault list; the entire discussion started from "sevetar is too inconsistent and his buffs suck, pls make good" 

 

The squads can be rough, yea. I just put him with normal cataphractii fist terminators and let them go to town on opponents

[Tychii]

I just think sigismond and his 65 points are better always. Not saying they should be even, but sevetar just lacks the ability to do what he is kinda built for. Which is assassinating heros in duels.

If his weapon redness on 5+ it would help a ton. Or if his warlord trait didn't suck, or his teleport homing terminators wasn't super clunky and situational.

I love sevetar, I just was he was ideal in more situations, and didn't just straight up fail as often as he does.

 

But anyways I'm looking forward to the next book and hoping for atremetar rules, which I hope are savage as all hell.

[lanceqi]

Just give him an ap2 chainglaive and Sev will be pretty reliable. By the way, I still don't understand why officers of Night Lords hate artificer armor, or terminator armor.

[Plaguemaker]

Working on my army list today, I've recently come into a bulk of Night Lords so I'm going to do my best to incorporate a lot of them. Curze is probably a given, the buffs he provides is just tactically smart from a NL pov. I also got Sev but after reading some of the recent posts I'm a tad sceptical on weather or not to use him? What I wouldn't give for some Atramentar rules right now.. :/ Terror Squads with volkites are a given, two of them already build prior to purchase. So just building around the rest of the army, stuck on deciding what to use for my Heavy Support slot, with Terror assault only allowing 1 I want to make the most of that. Generally trying to harness the strengths of the legion and try to mitigate any weak points.

Does anyone have their lists on hand I can check out and study? Always intrigued by what my fellow brothers are running.

[helterskelter]

Going to assume you're at least 2.5k, otherwise we need more info on your points limits.

If lower a tooled up sicaran or deredeo will provide, both can deal with numerous targets well.

If higher points, drop leviathan in your configuration of choice will be many a players recommended item. Because used right they're evil.

If you want a bit more, there are a variety of tank squadrons depending on points available and your needs

[Plaguemaker]

Toying with anywhere from 2.5 - 3k seems like an appropriate point frame.

Leviathans are gorgeous, definitely a unit I was very tempted in taking, I've not familiarised myself with their load outs/weapons yet though, the other option I looked at was Vindicators since you can have them in units of 3 now I believe? But they're not very fluffy for NL.

Unfortunately we're quite spoilt for choice when it comes to 30k lists, such a myriad of units and equipment to deploy, and this is my first 30k list. But again going to tailor it best to Terror Assault, so fast paced to make the most out of the buffs it provides. Checking out the bike units as well, not sure which out of the Outriders/Attack squadrons/Jetbikes are better suited towards TA, but I think they'd be at home in the list? Cheers for the assistance ^^ 

[helterskelter]

Don't let anyone tell you what is and isn't fluffy or think that you can't come up with a fluffy reason as to why not to include things. These are legions you can justify anything.

3 vindis would be incredibly useful, and 3 neat ones come in at less that a levi in a pod and have such damage potential. If you've the points you can do whatever you want to fulfil them

[Flint13]

^Theres totally a Nightlord Leviathan in one of the fluff color panels in Retribution.

 

Dunno where the idea they aren't fluffy for the 8th came from.

[Plaguemaker]

Good point well made, personally I think Levi's would look pretty rad and likely prove to be more useful than Vindi's, having said that if I can get 3 of them for the price of 1 + a DP then the argument can be made will those additional points be better put to use elsewhere?

Pro's and Con's of a Leviathan Talon compared to a Vindicator Sqaudron?

Thanks Flint, I think I've seen that art piece, it's beautiful! I didn't mean Levi's weren't perhaps fluffy but Vindicators.