Blood Raven Chapter tactics and 6th edition army

[Tiguriusmarius]

Greetings my brothers in arms...

 

Now that the new codex has come out for SM, I'm heavily debating my army lists and strategies - trying to tailor a flavor for my beloved Blood Ravens.  None of the chapter tactics truly ring that of a Blood raven army IMHO (Would have like for a couple squads of Brotherhood of pskyers).  I guess you could argue to bring in GK's to offset the feeling - but alas...

 

I typically run a libby in terminator armor, SS, and Mastery lvl. 2 for the focal point - but not sure how to craft the army around them to give them the feeling of the ravens.  The libby can hold his own for a bit, but not sure how he'll hold up in challenges.  Tigurius is a good choice, but has no invulnerable saves and again not the greatest choice for duels - otherwise UM tactics would be dominating and would pick that.  I'm hoping for some feedback or debates to help influence the decision.

 

 

Any suggestions on a way to tailor the army?  All positive feedback appreciated and thanks for stopping by...

[Excubitor]

Possibly Raven Guard? 4th had them with infiltrate, so that would be the closest.

 

Ultramarines would also work, since they are a Codex Chapter. And you get access to Tiggy, useful for a Chapter of psykers like the Blood Ravens.

[Tiguriusmarius]

Yeah, just saw an earlier topic, similar to my thread.  The vote tends to be towards Ultramarines because of the simple fact of Tigurius.  I'm still waiting for the update from Army builder to experiment with a new SM list.  Tigurius was typically my first choice in 5th edition because of the spells, but now that challenges are cropping up - I'm worried how he will do CC.  That's why I was thinking the termy libby with a SS for better survival.  

[corlinjewell]

Black templars of course.....

 

Lol, on a more serious note, I would go with the Ultramarines as well.  I wouldn't worry about Tigirius not being good in duels, as I find that Librarians are not the guys you want in challenges anyway.  While the force weapon may be tempting, all librarians are way too outmatched by other characters to warrant spending points on kitting them out for combat. Just have your squad sgt. soak up the challenges or use another HQ (larger point games of course) to deal with CC. I don't really think Raven Guard is the way to go, unless that's how you specifically set-up your army.  Ultramarines is great for lists that aren't specifically fluff-tailored.

[Tiguriusmarius]

@Corlin

 

I typically run 2000 points with friends, so a 2nd HQ might be on the docket.  Also, I don't normally like running a named character - but fluff wise would help.  Varro for overall support and run my Gabriel Angelos figure as a vanilla Chapter Master since Orbital Bombardment has changed (which would follow the Dawn of War game play much better).  Maybe a honor guard/command squad for Gabriel and a Sternguard retinue for Varro.  Still playing with the list prior to the Army Builder release.

 

Also, ranged libby's (Varro) should at least focus on Divination for the rerolls?  Thoughts?

[Excubitor]

Between his warlord trait (storm of fire - one unit in 12" can re-roll shooting hits, one use), Divination, and the UM chapter tactics, you will get a LOT of re-rolls for a few turns from Tiggy. Along with being able to virtually guarantee a pair of other useful powers to whatever you plan with all his psychic power re-rolls, Tiggy really is the ultimate support piece in the codex.

 

For Gabe, what are you running him with? Haven't played the games in awhile so can't quite remember what he could have. Also Chapter Master gets Honour Guard, Captain/chaplain/librarian gets command squad.

[DarkGuard]

Yeah, just saw an earlier topic, similar to my thread.  The vote tends to be towards Ultramarines because of the simple fact of Tigurius.  I'm still waiting for the update from Army builder to experiment with a new SM list.  Tigurius was typically my first choice in 5th edition because of the spells, but now that challenges are cropping up - I'm worried how he will do CC.  That's why I was thinking the termy libby with a SS for better survival.  

 

Tiggy and Ultramarines is the best choice IMO. Apart from the excessive Librarians, Blood Ravens are near enough Codex, so don't feel you need to go out of your way for flashy Chapter Tactics, Ultramarines will cover them ably enough. And then you have Tiggy, who is a boss among psykers.

 

It's interesting how you say you used him last edition but don't want to use him now. Simple fact is, he's a lot better now. Last edition he was overpriced and generally didn't do anything that a normal Libby couldn't do (Null Zone, Avenger, Gate).

 

Now he's a steal for his points, is our only psyker with Divination, gets re-rolls for his powers, and has one of the best Warlord traits there is. If you're worried about Challenges, don't be. He should sit in midfield, and with the proper support he shouldn't end up in combat. And then he'll be with a another character most of the time, who can soak challenges, or you can just refuse, it's not like you're missing much in combat by having him sit it out.

[Tiguriusmarius]

@Excubitor

 

For Gabriel, good question...

 

He's 230 points with Thunderhammer, Artificer armor, and The shield eternal (3++ but mainly for eternal warrior) making him a powerhouse in my mind for CC. Waiting to see if the shield negates the extra pistol because I'm a fan of the grav rules.  The only thing that prevents grav is invulnerable saves since I'm going after heros with this unit. 

 

Now for his retinue, I'm torn between 3 set-ups.  The new Honor Guard is cheap in comparision and versatile - but I want a Melee focus for him.  So I was going to either running Assault terminators SS and TH or I'm seriously considering 3 Assault Centurians.  They have 2 wounds a piece, T5, 2+ armor save, flamers or meltas, and seige drills.  The drills hit at initiative and I think can be combined for the +1 attack. So - two standard assaults have 2 attacks/3 on the charge - str9 Ap2 and the sergeant has 3/4.  Use a Storm Raven to get them into combat/assault on turn and anti-air with it as well when not carting Gabe and retinue around.  Draw backs of Assault centies are no Invuln, can't deep strike, and very bulky (think that represent 3 models per Centurian).

 

Sticking Varro in with my favorite Sternguards who cart around combi-plas and combi-melta.  Since no other weapons give the punch with the special ammo - I'm not interested in arming with anything else - so this keeps Tiggy away from serious confrontation while Gabe goes and knocks them out.

[Tiguriusmarius]

@ Darkguard

 

Tiggy was great because of Gate, force dome, and Avenger.  Gate was standard for me since I am a huge fan of Sternguard.  Ran Tiggy with a 10 man retinue of Sternguard - 3 combi-plas and 3 combi-melta.  Since they never had to charge, the shooting was devestating since I was able to move around so easily.  I lost a guard or two during the teleport, but I always gave my opponents a headache at how frequently they would corner me and then I would jump away and flank them.  Used a drop pod for delivery.

 

Tig was always great the reserve rolls which I rolled with a fully Deep strike army till the rule of 1/2 army on the table turn 1 because official.  Modeled my Tigurius after Jonah Orion.

[DarkGuard]

@ Darkguard

 

Tiggy was great because of Gate, force dome, and Avenger.  Gate was standard for me since I am a huge fan of Sternguard.  Ran Tiggy with a 10 man retinue of Sternguard - 3 combi-plas and 3 combi-melta.  Since they never had to charge, the shooting was devestating since I was able to move around so easily.  I lost a guard or two during the teleport, but I always gave my opponents a headache at how frequently they would corner me and then I would jump away and flank them.  Used a drop pod for delivery.

 

Tig was always great the reserve rolls which I rolled with a fully Deep strike army till the rule of 1/2 army on the table turn 1 because official.  Modeled my Tigurius after Jonah Orion.

 

It's a nice combo, and a lot of recognised it. But I stand by what I said, that it was too pricy. Those powers are great, but did you need to use them all? A 5++ isn't great, ask anyone about Terminators. Plus, chances are that with good positioning you could get your Sternguard 4+ cover saves easily back then. Avenger was a great power, but not game winning. Gate though was a great power and game winning, much like Null Zone, which I see you chose not to run. If I'm being honest, for my points I'd have preferred a Librarian with Null Zone and Gate and a Rhino, which would have done a similar job. Tigurius was very overpriced and very underwhelming. You used up in excess of 400pts there, most likely closer to 500pts, and Tigurius was hardly a force multiplier for your entire army.

 

I only brought up his points inefficiency last edition because in this Codex he is very, very points efficient, and recognized by many as one of the best characters in the Codex, and one of the best psykers in the game. And you say you don't really want to run him because of challenges. Challenges can ruin his day, but only if you let them. For Blood Ravens, I reckon he's not only a good gaming choice, but also a good competitive choice, making Ultramarines the best tactics for them.

[Tiguriusmarius]

@ darkguard

 

I agree with all your points and also agree Tiggy is better to take now.  I was explaining why I took him in the previous edition because I play friendly games primarily and rarely do competitions - but wanted a BR flavored list - hence Tiggy.  I tend to look at competitive lists for around 2000 for a core base and then tweek it depending on what flavor I want to run that week.  I generally get about 8 friends or regulars whom I trust at my GW store for games.  Normally alcohol gets involved if with friends - so trusted friends are a must when the battles get heated - or at least a referee whom we all trust to make a fair call.

 

But that's getting off topic.  Tig sounds like a cornerstone for my army now which solves the tactics issues which will be centered on ultramarines.  Now to focus on a Hammer and Anvil approach for the new list.  Posting this later when Lone Wolf releases the new edition. 

[DarkGuard]

I was sadly very competitive last edition, and so there was no place for Tiggy in my armies. I'm so glad he's competitive now, because I've wanted to run a good psyker special character now, and he's certainly one of the best picks in the Codex. Best of  luck in your games.

[ScionsofLight]

ok as someone that plays both the tabletop game and DoW; pre Dow2 the chapter had a large amount of psykers, after DoW2+both expansions they had almost none because of the purging. Gabe is a half dreadnought (2/3s of his body is bionics) special that would be better as papa smurf in his termie armour.

 

As a chapter they have more in common with the CFists due to needing to greatly rebuild (not with CT) so fluffy would be scouts in every list and doing your best to keep them alive.

 

CT that i would go with is UM because Gabe and most of the loyalists were Codex Junkies and in every game they quote the Codex.... alot.

 

 

So the big question to ask: are you doing you BR list pre DoW or Post DoW?

ALT - one of the campaign settings list build like dark crusade

 

Or has this topic changed to whether or not tiggy is good to take in the new dex?

[Tiguriusmarius]

@ ScionsofLight

 

You raise a very good point.  I make multiple list depending upon the theme we play - most of the list's are based pre-"Retribution".  Tigurius is probably a given, but running 2 named characters least for the shops that I play at is considered in "poor taste".  Again, I'm waiting for the new Army Builder C:SM release update to play around with new configuration because I used to run a steel rain configuration list, but now got an idea for a full mobile airwing contingent that I'm screwing around with.  Also the updated Honor guard situation got me thinking about how to run them with Gabriel.  Posting these lists here in the near future for critique...

[ScionsofLight]

ok so lots of vets & psykers, low on scouts (recruiting worlds are still contested)............. have you thought of Diomedes w/ JP & power axe with vanguard vets? that would go in right before the ravens full of tac/ whatever you pack in (dreads ) escorted by the talons and maybe a few drop pod squads?

[Tiguriusmarius]

Because in DoW - all captains(Angelos, Thule, Boreale, and I think even Diomedes) had Orbital Bombardment (Orbital Relay or taken ability for DoW II...) - Chapter Masters were used a lot for my friendly games.  Why would I consider this?  Because I typically ran Pedro Kantor along with 30 sternguard in my 5th edition lists.  Yup, 30 scoring sternguard with combi weapons.  Potent...  And was facing 6+ armies who ran jump-pack blood angels + sanguinary priests and wanted to ruin their day.  So sternguard fitted the bill nicely.

 

But 6th is changing up my play style because I built my 5th edition lists around the sternguard - not very anti air...  Though to help me afford the sternguard - (2) 5 man scout squads with shotguns and a sergeant with meltabmobs was nice anti-mech.  (2) Storm Ravfens carted the 5 mans around and were armed with Multi-meltas.  Scout transport, skimmer, anti-mech, Jamming beacon (jump-pack army F-U...), and assault vehicle for the scout to assault vehicles with melta bombs.  This keeps the contigent small but potent.  Have the option to swap Telion into the squad for a Cyrus themed Squad (Used Green-stuff to give the Telion model hair).

 

Steel Rain was a Boreale thing - so I use it sparingly now.  I modeled Tiggy after Jonah Orion since he took the place of Isador Akios as Gabriel right hand Psyker.  So Tiggy is a common place in the army now - and with the changes to 6th edition, solid inclusion.

 

Now that I have one named character gracing my list (and to keep in good standing with people at my GWS) - I'm doing a Vanilla CM (TH, artificer, shield eternal (3++, EW, Adamatium Mind) and maybe a plasma or grav pistol.  Very explensive but I wnat him to seek out enemy HQs to wreck.  Gabriel never backed down from a fight and want him to remain that way in the list.  Marneus is great if I'm not taking Tig.  Again - this is a personal decision vs just doing something out right cheesy...

 

Now - love storm ravens and want to see if I can get a talon to escort.  But my one question is - can you do a wing of Storm Talons without using up all 3 FA slots...  I don't think so, but waiting on the release for AB to verify it.  otherwise - sinking points into a Aegis defense line with Quad Cannon.  Thunderfire is also going in one of my lists.  Devastator Squads are in (even have a Avitus model for a pre-DoW II:CR).  Have a modeled Tarkus for my sternguard.  The one character I have not been able to do justice to yet is Thaddeus.  I'm hoping to use one of the heads from the new sternguard plastic pack and model it onto a Vanguard vet.  Just don't have a themed use for Assault marines yet - so he hasn't found a place in my lists yet.  One of these days...

 

And now that I have 6 centurion models, building and magnetizing them once I get back from the Sandbox (don't have much time for models yet...). That and 2 stalker/hunters to fit in somewhere.  

 

Working on the Reclusiarch squad to bring Mikelus to the field one of these days.  But now that I have a Command squad - looking at fielding them as Gabriel's honor guard (Command squad with Vanguard gear to give them a honor guard look).  Many choices - but no formalized list yet.  When I get close, I'll post the list and picture of the completed models.

[ScionsofLight]

cant wait

[Tiguriusmarius]

Ok, after dabbling with the new AB release, this is one of the lists I was looking at.  Fairly flexible army IMHO.  Critique's welcome as long as they are constructive. =)

 

HQ:

 

Gabriel Angelos (230)

Artificer Armor, Thunderhammer, and The Shield Eternal. (Pistol was not allowed in this version)

 

Jonah Orion (165)

(Varro Tigurius Model with BR livery) 

 

 

Elites:

 

Honor Guard (220)

(Gabriel's body guard) Chapter Champion (Sword/Maul), HG with a Power Maul, (2) HG with Relic blade, HG with Chapter Banner & Power Maul.  Drop-pod with Deathwind launcher

(since the current rules do not allow the Champion to equip a relic blade (guessing needs to be FAQed?) - equipping either Power sword or maul to make sure I don't lose initiative.)

 

Sternguard (235)

9 Troops with 1 sergeant; (sergeant with melta-bombs)

 

 

Troops:

 

Combat Squad/Tactical Squad (160)

4 Troops, 1 sergeant; (Multi-melta) and razorback with TLAC

 

Combat Squad/Tactical Squad (160)

4 Troops, 1 sergeant; (Multi-melta) and razorback with TLAC

 

Scout Squad (115)

4 Troops, 1 sergeant; (All shotguns and Melta-bombs) and LS Storm with MM

 

Scout Squad (115)

4 Troops, 1 sergeant; (All shotguns and Melta-bombs) and LS Storm with MM

 

 

Heavy Support

 

Storm Raven (230)

TLAC Turret, MM nose, Hurricane Bolter sides (Jonah & Sternguard Transport)

 

Aegis Defense Line with Quad Cannon (100) 

 

Devastator Squad (170)

4 Missile Launchers + Flakk

 

Thunderfire Cannon (100)

 

 

TOTAL: 2000

 

 

Trying to make enough juicy targets on the field to spread out the enemies focus.  Gabriel is made for fighting and killing, so drop podding him into the fray.  Deathwind launcher to cover more ground and make sure the enemy has to do more saves.  Gabe is a Hero hunter.

 

Jonah is fire support against infantry (orcs, nids, etc...).  The storm Raven gives him high mobility - and between the Raven and the sternguard, the sheer number of shots coming at a unit is terrifying.  Also the SR can engage Air units with Jonah/SG tackles ground support.

 

4 troops choices to spread out and engage objectives.  Razor's are quick chariots with get close to objectives, dump the Combat squads into cover while using their bodies as cover for the Squad.  Combat squads can swap between Flamer, HB, or MM depending on your choice (Missile Launcher was too expensive) - but these guys are mid-field players - hence TLAC on the Razor's.  The Scouts are zoomy and anti-vehicle/light infantry.  Seriously, these guys normally last awhile before they get popped and won me a couple games...  Nasty when dug in...

 

 

The Aegis with Quad really is nice for tackling fliers, but have a devastator squad backing it up.  The sergeant operates the Quad and the Troops track and fire the Launchers (8 anti-air shots...)  And throw in a cheap Thunderfire behind the Aegis wall for some long range nasty barrages.  Even if you lose the Thunderfire, the Techmarine can still bolster/repair the line...

 

 

Comments or Critiques? 

[ScionsofLight]

you seem to have all your bases covered, 4 troops (bit small in number but razorbacks rock), lots of AA to throw up, lots of mobility, anti tank everywhere

 

I can so see the final assault from Chaos Rising with this list (sadly no preds eeh)

 

the only thing critique wise is the stormraven: 2 of the 3 weapons are great for troops but the multi melta not so much i say either MM & TL-LC or keep the TL- heavy bolters

 

thats my 2cents 

[Excubitor]

About the things I'd think of changing are the Multi-melta in the tactical squads to a Plasma Gun/Grav Gun, and the MM on the Storms to HF (don't need to worry about BS then).

 

I'd also drop the Hurricane Bolters, between the Assault Cannon, MM and 4 missiles you don't need them. Use whatever left over points there are to buff up the tacticals to 6-man units.

[Tiguriusmarius]

 

The idea behind this list is to Saturate the field - guerilla warfare...

 

HQ:

 

Gabriel Angelos (230)

Artificer Armor, Thunderhammer, and The Shield Eternal. (Pistol was not allowed in this version)

 

Jonah Orion (165)

(Varro Tigurius Model with BR livery)

 

 

Elites:

 

Honor Guard (220)

(Gabriel's body guard) Chapter Champion (Sword/Maul), HG with a Power Maul, (2) HG with Relic blade, HG with Chapter Banner & Power Maul. Drop-pod with Deathwind launcher

 

Sternguard (147)

5 Troops with 1 sergeant; (sergeant with melta-bombs)

 

 

Troops:

 

Combat Squad/Tactical Squad (160)

4 Troops, 1 sergeant; (Grav-gun) and razorback with TLAC

 

Combat Squad/Tactical Squad (160)

4 Troops, 1 sergeant; (Plasma-gun) and razorback with TLAC

 

Combat Squad/Tactical Squad (90)

4 Troops, 1 sergeant; (Heavy Bolter) (Sergeant has Storm Bolter and Melta Bombs)

 

Combat Squad/Tactical Squad (85)

4 Troops, 1 sergeant; (Flamer) (Sergeant has Storm Bolter and Melta Bombs)

 

Scout Squad (115)

4 Troops, 1 sergeant; (All shotguns and Melta-bombs) and LS Storm with MM

 

Scout Squad (115)

4 Troops, 1 sergeant; (All shotguns and Melta-bombs) and LS Storm with MM

 

 

Heavy Support

 

Storm Raven (230)

TLAC Turret, MM nose, (Jonah & Sternguard Transport)

 

Aegis Defense Line with Quad Cannon (100)

 

Devastator Squad (170)

3 Missile Launchers + Flakk, one plasma cannon

 

Thunderfire Cannon (100)

 

 

TOTAL: 1997

 

 

The lack of troops was definitely a great point. The problem is the tactical squad set-up for a ten man does not allow for multiple classes of personal specialty weapons (ie - 2 plasma guns in a Tac squad), so everything went combat squad. Trying to cut costs everywhere to make this more saturated guerrilla warfare feel also. Killed off 4 sternguard, but 6 still have a chance of killing off a 10 man if the dice gods are with me.  This with the points from the removed hurricane bolters opened up two combat squads. Had to reduce a missile launcher and flakk to a plasma cannon, but the points opened up more options with my combat squads. I really like how my foot sloggin sergeants have teeth now - SB always gives them 2 shots at full range and they can pop vehicles was melta. As for the HB on one of the 5 man, they can dig in and be a mini devastator/harasser unit depending where you drop them. I'm digging combat squads more and more for they're flexibility. The nice part is for the points you can swap any of the 5 mans I listed and throw them into the razor instead of the above mentioned set-up. Lot more options.

 

Downside to this list that I see is because everything is out there - MECH army might have a field day with this (DA, Chaos, GK,etc.) but looks like a decent set-up against Dark Elder, some eldar, orks, imperial guard, and such. Be interesting to see how this pans out. Need to look at a Mech army myself soon. I literally have over 6000 points of painted models already and now building the rest of the above mentioned troops from the new codex. Thank god I got a new airbrush system that Lestor Bursley uses on www.awesomepaintjob.com - love the dude's work and should give me an edge on speeding up the addition of the new models. Afghanistan helped me pay for everything thankfully...