Hope for new plastics now dead?

[DanPesci]

So although im a space wolves player, have always liked the sisters of battle and was hoping (with the news of the new digi codex), that you guys may see some new plastic models so i could look at a few for allies/apocaypse games

however after having been on the GW site today (UK), it doesnt look like thats gonna happen, as theyre currently selling package 'deals' on sisters stuff.

I say deals, but a 10 model squad is nearly £50

So unless this is some sort of last ditch attempt to clear old metal stock before new plastics arrive (in which case, is gonna be pretty harsh on anyone who shells out these 'bargain' prices now)....i seriously doubt theres gonna be new plastics anytime soon

which is a shame

[Lucien Eilam]

If they were going to do plastics, they would have made a real codex too. It's definitely not happening this time around, and it takes a massive degree of blind optimism to imagine it ever will.

 

They're not "deals" of any kind, by the way. No discount over buying the blisters individually at all.

[Quixus]

I don't know, maybe they are trying to get rid of the old metal before christmas to make room for plastic - or failcast god forbid.

[Lucien Eilam]

No. It's metal. If they want to get rid of it, all they have to do is melt it down and write off the (tiny) production costs.

[Fibonacci]

It is not like they have a huge supply of already cast metal they want to divest.  There are still some figures in production but they are done sporadically and when overall stock levels are low -- I don't know what that level is but there are still metal figures being produced as needed.

 

Yep, that's the cost of Sisters.  3 bolter babes, 2 melta guns, a superior and an Immolator = 88 bucks for a soon to be small Battle Sister squad or a current Dominion squad.   Adepta Sororitas will not be a flavor of the month army and I'm cool with that. 

[Naminé]

Plastics will come around one day, I'm sure of it.  We just have to bear in mind that for good and bad, Sisters are a low priority (if not the lowest) at GW and that is not going to change until they finally find the 'opportunity' to devote a large focus on redesigning the range.

That is going to be a long time coming, sad to say, and probably at the end of all other factions (and then some).

[Brother Darklight]

Which is a darn shame.  I know plenty of players who would all love to play a Sisters of Battle army, but the lacking availability simply discourages it.

What they should have done with this re-release is just make 1 10-sister plastic box akin to the Space Marine Tac box.  People would use the bits in that to make Battle Sisters, Celestians, etc.. The sheer amount of those that I'm certain they would sell would have been enough to prove that Sisters of Battle would be vastly more popular than GW gives them credit for.

[Warsmith Aznable]

I'm almost positive they lowered the BSS minimum to five as a way to lure in potential players who would balk at the cost of twenty minis for two squads but might buy into about half that. GW knows that once you've got an army going it's almost impossible to stop regardless of the cost. You might not go out and buy the 1-clicks, but if you establish 1 HQ and 2 Troops then at some point in the future you will buy some more.

 

Sisters of Battle are just at a slow burn, is all. When will that change? Probably not this edition.

[WarriorFish]

It would be supreme optimism to seriously have expected anything new in the model department with this codex. So if nothing else I am immensely impressed by your faith, that's the sort of thing we like round here

GW wants to do releases as a complete chunk now thanks to the legal fallout about third parties which is good for us as it means no more waiting or rules for models that don't exist. Factor in how the Dark Eldar overhaul was done and it isn't much of a stretch to see how the new SoB stuff will happen.

Take this codex for what it is: a digital update because people couldn't legally obtain it any more. The fact that they bothered to spruce it up with pictures and some changes and additions to match 6th Edition is an unexpected bonus. I'm not going to pretend that this was GW being nice, as they'd might have had trouble selling it as new otherwise, or imagine that this doesn't "buy" GW more time but it is still good news.

Like Max said; a slow burn. Patience is a virtue, until then keep plugging away and rolling those luck cubes :)

[RookBartly]

Waiting is something that sister players are good at.  We have been waiting for many many years for updates between Codex / Chapter Approved, Codex,  White Dwarf...  We are very very patient.  We the players of Adepta Sororitas will have our day in the lime-light.  We will one day have a full release of plastic models.  We may not known when but we do know it one day it *WILL* happen and we will be here.  We will be ready.  We will show out love for our forces.  We will spend money and GW will be happy...

[Bjorn Firewalker]

GW wants to do releases as a complete chunk now thanks to the legal fallout about third parties which is good for us as it means no more waiting or rules for models that don't exist. Factor in how the Dark Eldar overhaul was done and it isn't much of a stretch to see how the new SoB stuff will happen.

Well, what did they expect? "Nature abhors a vacuum." So do markets.

Take this codex for what it is: a digital update because people couldn't legally obtain it any more. The fact that they bothered to spruce it up with pictures and some changes and additions to match 6th Edition is an unexpected bonus. I'm not going to pretend that this was GW being nice, as they'd might have had trouble selling it as new otherwise, or imagine that this doesn't "buy" GW more time but it is still good news.

I don't own an iPad, because after MULTIPLE incidents in which my computer up and lost data one way or another, I'm reluctant to spend good money on something so ephemeral. If a print version remains unavailable, GW can it.

Like Max said; a slow burn.

And whose Goddamn fault is it the flame is near-extinguished? You don't have to look in the mirror- the blame rests on the shoulders of GW's own marketing execs.

[Lucien Eilam]

I don't own an iPad, because after MULTIPLE incidents in which my computer :cuss up and lost data one way or another, I'm reluctant to spend good money on something so ephemeral.

I don't think you've thought that through. Everything I've ever bought through the iBookstore can be downloaded again whenever I want, regardless of what the publisher thinks about it, and because all my data is backed up on a daily basis to iCloud I can be back up and running from a freshly reset iPad in less than 30 minutes.

 

And whose Goddamn fault is it the flame is near-extinguished? You don't have to look in the mirror- the blame rests on the shoulders of GW's own marketing execs.

GW don't have "marketing execs".

 

Sisters got the same push every other army got at launch. They failed on their own merits.

[Marshall Bretton]

i am a sister player, a space wolves player and a black templars player, patience and faith are things i have learned in abundance over the years :p

 

but yeah i think this does make it look like we can't expect any new minis for some time. shame, but ah well, i do love the existing ones, and ebay is a good place for bargains if you look hard enough

[AdmLancel]

There definitely will not be any new kits with this codex, that was pretty clear from it being digital only.  My logic flows that Sisters are currently direct order only, if they made new kits then the Sisters would almost assuredly be sold in stores, and if the are sold in stores they would print a codex to sell alongside the new kits.  I guess it's not impossible that they could create a kit, say one single new kit of basic Battle Sisters, and have it be direct order only, but that feels like it's saying "We expect low sales", and plastic kits, as I recall, are not cost efficient with low sales.  I just don't see it coming, and probably no new kits this edition based on what's been said.  Probably at best we can look forward to potentially a print codex, maybe even a limited edition to go with it, but hopefully it will go that far and the subsequent turnout will be enough to finally convince them to invest into a major release.

 

Heck, maybe GW should just skip the common hardback codex and only release a limited edition Codex: Adepta Sororitas print copy.

[Warsmith Aznable]

Heck, maybe GW should just skip the common hardback codex and only release a limited edition Codex: Adepta Sororitas print copy.

 

I'd be fine with POD if the problem is they don't expect enough sales to justify a large run.

[Rizara]

Ok, considering everything on the site is just to make for advertising some old metals with a new dex, it is a marketing gimmik.  Their is no reduced price if you buy it one blister at a time, its just to encourage some sells and move the stuff they have in backstock.  Remember, basically they first pulled the sisters from the store shelves and made them direct order.  This meant that every store that had any sisters product was to return the product to the one location in each country.   They then sit on this, but since they made them direct order, the product just sits their.   They are no longer making metal sisters, as they are no longer producing metal models.  I say this because their are models that are in the range that are no longer available, mostly the seraphim superior optional sculpts that had fewer models in stock and were the first to go.  I also say this because the unit deal they are advertising for the seraphim doesn't included a seraphim superior, but the ones they have in stock, are sold seperately.  This tells me they have limited supplies.    

 

So they aren't remaking them in finecast, as you said, they could just melt the plastics.  So instead of melting the plastics, or making fine cast molds for them, they are simply liquidating old stock.   They are releasing an updated codex, not an actual new codex, this now pushes the sisters army off till probably the end of the line for 6th edition codexs.   They aren't releasing a new physical dex, because this means they would have to release new plastics.  They probably have some plastics made, they have been mentioned for a while, but this marketing ploy is release an updated dex, get interest sparked enough to clear out inventory.  Once inventory is gone, that they can justify releasing some plastic sisters, then maybe they will release the replacement plasitcs for the few units we have right now.  Maybe later on, they will simply release a battle sisters box and a seraphim box, cause they can release these without a full codex later on after the old stock is gone.   Why melt metal when you got alot of it and can make more money on it.   Maybe they will release those two box sets before a real codex release later down the road.  This way they can instead release new units made for the codex once they have figured out what they are gonna need, which is maybe why they gave us a pretty nice looking digital update instead.  At the same time they can make money off the dex. 

 

All in all, plastics aren't a dieing idea,  GW just honestly has way to much sister stock sitting their, because well, they messed up and made them go direct order, then because of no real codex release since 3rd edition, they are not getting store marketing or selling fast because those who play sisters already aren't buying enough new, and they aren't getting new players with a hard to get white dwarf list.   One day we will get plastics, probably wont be till end of next year, or sometime in 2015 if were lucky.  Problem is, existing players are not buying the metals at those outrageous prices, and new players are still waiting for plastics since they keep saying they aren't getting squatted.  What GW did however was a bad marketing idea, because anyone who has been wanting to get some sisters but has been holding out, isn't going to jump at the now raised prices from just a few months ago.   10 sisters at the end of the summer was only $57.25 US and now its $83.   They should have given people the same prices, not raise them, and then make sets of them at least cheaper than buying them seperately.  Instead, they are basically offering them as deals but all they do is save the shopper less clicking, and offer no real value to already absorbent prices on a unit.  Lets face it, if you were starting a new army, would you start a cool looking all female army where it costs you 83 bucks a unit, or start one of the new plastic armies you can get in a store, where 83 bucks will get you two units or more.  Heck even an all infantry IG army is cheaper to do than sisters right now.   Sad, really sad to think about it. 

[Warsmith Aznable]

See, I don't know that they aren't making new metals. A while back I ordered a Dialogus model, among other things, but they short shipped me and didn't charge for it. About a month ago I put in another Sisters order and listed a Dialogus again, but this time I got one. So either they have a finite supply that they're moving from country to country to redistribute stock, or in between my first order and my second order they had made a few of them and I was lucky enough to get one.

[Chrysaor the Giant]

 

Sisters got the same push every other army got at launch. They failed on their own merits.

 

That is complete bollocks. The same push every other army got?

 

When was the last time they got a printed standalone codex? 2003.

 

How many new kits were released with that codex? 3? (A plastic sprue for the Immolator, the Exorcist, the Penitent?)

 

Show me a single plastic Sister of Battle, anywhere, that has been produced by Games Workshop, and you can keep that remark. Otherwise, it's nonsense.

 

Fact of the matter is the core of the army has been saddled with single-piece metal models for two decades. There is no other line in either 40k or Fantasy which has been so needlessly hamstrung. How many years do you have to go back to find a similar condition in one of the other armies? Daemonhunters? (And how far back after that?) Look where Grey Knights are today. Plastic Sisters. One box. That's all they need, and they've never had it.

[tvih]

anyone who has been wanting to get some sisters but has been holding out, isn't going to jump at the now raised prices from just a few months ago.   10 sisters at the end of the summer was only $57.25 US and now its $83.

Have the US prices really gone up? Because the European euro prices haven't - not since summer anyway. Still 14€ for 3 bolter models, 8€ for special weapons, etc. The 1-click-collections are, as we know, the exact same prices as buying the blisters separately, and thus the same price they were during summer.

 

Personally for my Sisters I could still fill up my allied detachment with Fast and Elite squads. So for example Dominions or Seraphim for Fast. Possibly Celestian for Elite, but it really depends if they were changed or not. At least in terms of weapon options it doesn't seem so, so probably not worth it. But Dominion with 4 specials? Yes please. Just that like the Seraphim, it's indeed a pricey unit to buy even with no further recent raises. But with those two squads, a few Immolators and possibly an Exorcist I'd pretty much be covered.

[Lucien Eilam]

Yeah, they're still casting. They only have two warehouses - one in Lenton, one in Memphis. There's no possible way to ship between those two more cheaply than just casting more miniatures at either end, and they're direct only so there's no stock sitting in stores or anywhere else. Miniatures going in and out of stock guarantees current production,

 

The idea that they could be sitting on a huge pile of unsold stock is, I'm sorry, absolute desperation. They've had the best part of a decade to run the stock down, most of that while selling a huge range of metal miniatures for much more popular armies, and at any time could recast the existing stock as something else. Pewter is basically endlessly recyclable and, thanks to the current price of tin, has decent value even as scrap. Miniatures being removed from sale most likely just means the mould is worn out and it's not economical to make a new one from the masters.

 

If you buy a Sisters of Battle miniature recently, it's in a modern white Citadel blister. Anyone seriously think they paid out to repackage everything from the old blue/grey 40k ones? Or suddenly decided, just a couple of years ago, to produce a mountain of stock in the new ones for a slow-moving direct only range? Of course not. There are case studies still floating around the net from when they built their new just-in-time warehouse and years of annual reports showing drastic reductions in how much unsold stock they have sitting on the books.

[Lucien Eilam]

That is complete bollocks. The same push every other army got?

 

When was the last time they got a printed standalone codex? 2003.

 

How many new kits were released with that codex? 3? (A plastic sprue for the Immolator, the Exorcist, the Penitent?)

 

Show me a single plastic Sister of Battle, anywhere, that has been produced by Games Workshop, and you can keep that remark. Otherwise, it's nonsense.

Nope. You're dead wrong. Note that I said "at launch". There was absolutely nothing unusual about the Sister of Battle range when they were originally released, nor when Witch Hunters was released. Most armies were majority metal at the time of both. And both got an absolute ton of coverage in White Dwarf, on the web, etc. They still failed. We know they failed, because as much as we might disagree with GW's policies, they're not dumb enough to abandon an army that was making them a bunch of money.

 

Grey Knights were all metal too, for example, when Daemonhunters was released. But people actually bought them, unlike Sisters.

 

But please, do insult me again.

[Fibonacci]

 They are no longer making metal sisters, as they are no longer producing metal models.

Yes, they are.  I guarantee it.  Over time metal molds are prone to warps and cracks until that mold has to be decommissioned.  They are not making any more metal molds, but they are still using those that can be used and casting metal figures.  There is not enough demand to keep a line running continuously and this causes problems because it is a hassle to break down a working line, rig it for metal and run production for a few days only to break it down and go back to plastic or resin again.  It is limited, infrequent and not on any sort of schedule but they are still producing some metal figures.

 

Not that it really matters at all in the grand scheme of this thread.  Sisters of Battle are still limited supply, high cost models to the point that fair condition second hand models sell on ebay for more than retail SM tacticals.  I want new plastic models as much as anyone but the more people say they will never buy a metal army or pout about a digital only codex  the more I like my rare, metal army with its electronic codex.  I'm proud of my army and i plan to keep expanding it. 

 

Or maybe its just my schadenfreude.

[Hellios]

I think we will see plastic sisters, although I fear they will come in a box of 5. I was not expecting their release with this dex. Doing the sisters range is as big a deal as the Dark Eldar; if they do it, it will be a proper job.

[Naminé]

 

That is complete bollocks. The same push every other army got?

 

When was the last time they got a printed standalone codex? 2003.

 

How many new kits were released with that codex? 3? (A plastic sprue for the Immolator, the Exorcist, the Penitent?)

 

Show me a single plastic Sister of Battle, anywhere, that has been produced by Games Workshop, and you can keep that remark. Otherwise, it's nonsense.

Nope. You're dead wrong. Note that I said "at launch". There was absolutely nothing unusual about the Sister of Battle range when they were originally released, nor when Witch Hunters was released. Most armies were majority metal at the time of both. And both got an absolute ton of coverage in White Dwarf, on the web, etc. They still failed. We know they failed, because as much as we might disagree with GW's policies, they're not dumb enough to abandon an army that was making them a bunch of money.

 

Grey Knights were all metal too, for example, when Daemonhunters was released. But people actually bought them, unlike Sisters.

 

But please, do insult me again.

You mean how they were trickled into 40k as an Imperial unit through WD?  because that is not the same as other armies (with the exception of necrons).  Sisters have always been treated as the niche, even with the witchhunters codex, GW admitted it was designed to be Inquisition first and they weren't sure how to approach it.

 

The main reason  Sisters of battle have never taken off is because they have been made in confusion, with a confusing purpose and a confusing aesthetic from the uninitiated looking in.

[*Furyou Miko]

Ok, so what we really need is someone with a press pass to break in and interrogate the warehouse and manufacturing staff...