[HH1.0] Word Bearer's Tactics

[Runefyre]

Have you guys ever thought about taking Armoured Breakthrough? You can avoid taking tacticals and focus on doing what makes WB's unique: their friends from the warp.

 

Preds/sicarans/a typhon will give a good amount of shooting and staying power while Layak and Erebus+tzeentch allies can perform their little rituals to boost you numbers.

 

My brother plays WB's so I know this can be effective. He generally piggy-backs Layak and Erebus with some vets and outlfanks them, that coupled with deep striking horrors means I can't touch his psychic phase at all before he gets at least one phase of summoning. He takes a DCR for reserves insurance as well.

[Argel Tal]

I run Lorgar in a dreadclaw with a plasma squad. To trigger all the combo he needs to cast precog to tank all damage, prescience to assure the hits for the squad and perfect timing if needed to negate cover. If the squad is in mele trouble foreboding is a good way to prevent it. And that's only for Lorgar, some other biomancy power can be quite good for the burning lore guy with the gal vorbaks or some Tzeentch powers for the horrors. 

 

Maybe I'm a bit crazy with psy but it's usually how i run them if I have daemons in the army. 

 

 

For the DCR if I run a Gal Vorbak deathstar I usually want to get a primus medicae with them wich leaves no room for this but you can also have your own psychic DCR if you cast scrier's gaze which is even better than a DCR :) 

Edited February 14, 2017 by Argel Tal

[ronin_cse]

How well would Lorgar in a large blob of tactical marines perform while taking levitate with Lorgar in order to get them close enough to do damage? Maybe throw our required chaplain in there as well?

 

Trying to decide how best to run Lorgar until I can afford a Dreadclaw or Spartan

Edited February 14, 2017 by ronin_cse

[Marshal Loss]

I run Lorgar in a dreadclaw with a plasma squad. To trigger all the combo he needs to cast precog to tank all damage, prescience to assure the hits for the squad and perfect timing if needed to negate cover. If the squad is in mele trouble foreboding is a good way to prevent it. And that's only for Lorgar, some other biomancy power can be quite good for the burning lore guy with the gal vorbaks or some Tzeentch powers for the horrors. 

 

Maybe I'm a bit crazy with psy but it's usually how i run them if I have daemons in the army. 

 

 

For the DCR if I run a Gal Vorbak deathstar I usually want to get a primus medicae with them wich leaves no room for this but you can also have your own psychic DCR if you cast scrier's gaze which is even better than a DCR

 

That is an interesting way of doing it. :)

[ronin_cse]

Posted up my planned initial HH list if anyone here would be kind enough to comment on it: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331026-initial-word-bearers-2500-pt-list/

[Wolf of Russ]

Man, I gotta read through this as I work on getting my Word Bearer Heresy army sorted.

[Sete]

How do you think Samus would fare against Custodes?

He is a LoW for WB right?

[Runefyre]

How do you think Samus would fare against Custodes?

He is a LoW for WB right?

Yeah he's a LoW for WB's, but if the custodes even sneaze adrathic weaponry in his direction he's a goner.

 

The biggest boon he would grant is inhibiting Custodes reserves if they're deep striking dudes.

[Sete]

Well to be fair anything hit by it is a goner.

Yeah he's missing EW.

From what I can see I will have to use DA with poison bolters and those fancy stasis grenades to make a dent on custodes.

[Runefyre]

????????

 

It just double posted my reply, then when I edited one of them to an ignore, it returns to only one post

 

So now my response is gone. smh

Edited February 24, 2017 by Runefyre

[Runefyre]

Anyway, I was saying Typhons should do good work against custodes considering Aera-shrikes only protect against barrage weapons.

[ronin_cse]

Wouldn't a decent answer to Custodes, as it is for so many other things, just be more Gal Vorbak?

 

I could see this being a decent time to take a tainted weapon on the leader as well, rending with ID would be pretty good against these two wound models

 

Edit: there's always just the option of tying them up the entire game with some super cheap units. Summon or take some daemon units and just keep them occupied the entire game. Their low AP weapons and such don't mean much against masses of 1 wound models with nothing but a 5++

 

Edit 2: Just keep thinking of more, last edit ;). Taking pink horrors would probably be the way to go actually! They probably won't kill anything but since they now split into blue horros and brimstone horrors the custodes will never get out of combat with them unless they are extremely lucky.

Edited February 24, 2017 by ronin_cse

[Withershadow]

You can't use the new pink horror profile in 30K, those are 40K rules in a 40K supplement. You'd be stuck using the Codex version.

[Runefyre]

You can't use the new pink horror profile in 30K, those are 40K rules in a 40K supplement. You'd be stuck using the Codex version.

Wrath of Magnus specifically says the new Pink Horror profile replaces the codex version, essentially making the new version the codex version. So I don't see why you couldn't use the new profile in 30k.

[Withershadow]

*shrug* that's the ruling that was made by several of the FW events I have coming up this year.  40K supplements are wholesale ignored regardless of what they say. The codex is allowed only because it's mentioned by the WB rules.

[Runefyre]

I guess it could be argued either way. I'm not gonna sweat it lol. Just leave it up to players to decide which profile to use.

[ronin_cse]

I'd say it's definitely not clear cut since it's a straight 40k codex, hopefully it's cleared up better once Angelus comes out.

 

Regardless that's just the most tar pit unit if it can split. Taking another cheap Daemon troop should have decent results as well. Plaguebearers to tie them up or maybe Bloodletters/Daemonettes to maybe kill one if you're lucky? I'll mess with the math here in a minute.

[ronin_cse]

So just real quick if a unit of 5 custodes charges bloodletters they will kill 5 to 6 the first turn (assuming 2 extra hits with their special rule) which will then drop to 2-3 killed each turn after that. So a 10 model unit would tie them up for 2 turns assuming they get the charge.

 

In return the bloodletters with a bloodreaper, if they manage to get the charge, should deal 2 wounds so they should kill one, and then they should do 0-1 wound each turn after.

 

I did a 5 man unit of custodes with spears for this example as I think that will be the most common. Considering the Daemons would be 105 points vs 330 points I don't think this is a bad trade. Obviously this is all in a vacuum and there are way more variables, like the bloodletters getting shot at first, but still I think it's a decent way to figure out how effective it would be in a perfect situation.

 

Edit: as far as Gal'Vorbak and if you should do a PF or a tainted weapon: looks like the PF still wins out. You should do 2 wounds with a PF but you should only expect 0-1 rends with the Martyr so the PF will be more consistent

 

Edit 2: oops! I forgot that custodes have a 5++....well cut my numbers by a 1/3 then :(....I'm less confident about my plans now

Edited February 24, 2017 by ronin_cse

[Runefyre]

So just real quick if a unit of 5 custodes charges bloodletters they will kill 5 to 6 the first turn (assuming 2 extra hits with their special rule) which will then drop to 2-3 killed each turn after that. So a 10 model unit would tie them up for 2 turns assuming they get the charge.

 

In return the bloodletters with a bloodreaper, if they manage to get the charge, should deal 2 wounds so they should kill one, and then they should do 0-1 wound each turn after.

 

I did a 5 man unit of custodes with spears for this example as I think that will be the most common. Considering the Daemons would be 105 points vs 330 points I don't think this is a bad trade. Obviously this is all in a vacuum and there are way more variables, like the bloodletters getting shot at first, but still I think it's a decent way to figure out how effective it would be in a perfect situation.

 

Edit: as far as Gal'Vorbak and if you should do a PF or a tainted weapon: looks like the PF still wins out. You should do 2 wounds with a PF but you should only expect 0-1 rends with the Martyr so the PF will be more consistent

 

Edit 2: oops! I forgot that custodes have a 5++....well cut my numbers by a 1/3 then ....I'm less confident about my plans now

Power fists all the way with GV. That sweet Str10 will ID Custodes.

 

You can also leverage army buffers like Layak to cast cursed earth to give them a 4++

 

A mhara ghal might not be a bad choice either, it's tainted power claws will mince Custodes like there's no tomorrow (plus a tankibune will not be able to re-roll his 3++, though he won't have to re-roll successful, the rules cancel out). Plus it's a match for Custodes dreads.

[Syrex]

So just real quick if a unit of 5 custodes charges bloodletters they will kill 5 to 6 the first turn (assuming 2 extra hits with their special rule) which will then drop to 2-3 killed each turn after that. So a 10 model unit would tie them up for 2 turns assuming they get the charge.

 

In return the bloodletters with a bloodreaper, if they manage to get the charge, should deal 2 wounds so they should kill one, and then they should do 0-1 wound each turn after.

 

I did a 5 man unit of custodes with spears for this example as I think that will be the most common. Considering the Daemons would be 105 points vs 330 points I don't think this is a bad trade. Obviously this is all in a vacuum and there are way more variables, like the bloodletters getting shot at first, but still I think it's a decent way to figure out how effective it would be in a perfect situation.

 

Edit: as far as Gal'Vorbak and if you should do a PF or a tainted weapon: looks like the PF still wins out. You should do 2 wounds with a PF but you should only expect 0-1 rends with the Martyr so the PF will be more consistent

 

Edit 2: oops! I forgot that custodes have a 5++....well cut my numbers by a 1/3 then ....I'm less confident about my plans now

Semantics but a 5man squad of Spear custodes is only 275pts (285 with Arae Shrikes).

I know you specifically said you weren't including shooting/etc, but just for reference, 5 spear custodes shooting would kill 3-4 bloodletters (18" range).

Demonic Instability could really hit you hard after that first round of combat too.

Cult Horde/Tainted Flesh Levi squads would of course be amazing, but also a fair bit of effort if you don't already have the models.

 

Given the lack of unit tax on custodes, it wouldn't surprise me to see 3-4 man squads be the norm, rahter than 5+. Then Valdor/Shield Captain in a larger squad of Hetaeron Guard or Aquilons.

 

Fortunately their lack of assault transport makes it a lot easier to try and dodge them - Even if they deep strike you get a turn to try and thin them out (A well placed Vindicator shot or two would sure go well).

Edited February 28, 2017 by Syrex

[Syrex]

 

So just real quick if a unit of 5 custodes charges bloodletters they will kill 5 to 6 the first turn (assuming 2 extra hits with their special rule) which will then drop to 2-3 killed each turn after that. So a 10 model unit would tie them up for 2 turns assuming they get the charge.

 

In return the bloodletters with a bloodreaper, if they manage to get the charge, should deal 2 wounds so they should kill one, and then they should do 0-1 wound each turn after.

 

I did a 5 man unit of custodes with spears for this example as I think that will be the most common. Considering the Daemons would be 105 points vs 330 points I don't think this is a bad trade. Obviously this is all in a vacuum and there are way more variables, like the bloodletters getting shot at first, but still I think it's a decent way to figure out how effective it would be in a perfect situation.

 

Edit: as far as Gal'Vorbak and if you should do a PF or a tainted weapon: looks like the PF still wins out. You should do 2 wounds with a PF but you should only expect 0-1 rends with the Martyr so the PF will be more consistent

 

Edit 2: oops! I forgot that custodes have a 5++....well cut my numbers by a 1/3 then ....I'm less confident about my plans now

Power fists all the way with GV. That sweet Str10 will ID Custodes.

 

You can also leverage army buffers like Layak to cast cursed earth to give them a 4++

 

A mhara ghal might not be a bad choice either, it's tainted power claws will mince Custodes like there's no tomorrow (plus a tankibune will not be able to re-roll his 3++, though he won't have to re-roll successful, the rules cancel out). Plus it's a match for Custodes dreads.

 

Sorry for the double post, tried to edit my other one but strange things happened.

 

As much as i love GV, they're one unit I'd be trying to keep away from Custodes. Custodes will end up striking first (Same WS, so they get +1I), and even their worst weapons cut through GV Armor. They can also easily get S10(unwieldy) on pretty much any infantry squad other than Custodian Guard which could end badly.

Any unit with Shields is only getting hit on 5's which is rough as well. 

 

The Mhara Gal is interesting being WS6/I5 (Hitting at the same time as Custodes, and hitting on 3s, or 4s for shielded units). I'd still be worried given how easily they get AP1 MC Fists, so you'd really have to pick your battles (Which is of course easier said than done).

 

Those guys certainly are terrifying in CC

[Runefyre]

But GV have 2W a piece (3 on the martyr), so even if the Custodes strike first, you stand a good chance of at least 3 surviving. If they've taken gauntlets, then you have the initiative (except if you give the martyr a power fist, in which case he'll be trading blows, but insta-killing custodes).

 

I'm not saying it's guaranteed, but GV are probably one of the only units in HH right now that can hope to match Custodes.

 

Of course WB players also have the option of daemon tarpits, which may be the most efficient way of neutralizing Custodes lethality.

[ronin_cse]

 

So just real quick if a unit of 5 custodes charges bloodletters they will kill 5 to 6 the first turn (assuming 2 extra hits with their special rule) which will then drop to 2-3 killed each turn after that. So a 10 model unit would tie them up for 2 turns assuming they get the charge.

 

In return the bloodletters with a bloodreaper, if they manage to get the charge, should deal 2 wounds so they should kill one, and then they should do 0-1 wound each turn after.

 

I did a 5 man unit of custodes with spears for this example as I think that will be the most common. Considering the Daemons would be 105 points vs 330 points I don't think this is a bad trade. Obviously this is all in a vacuum and there are way more variables, like the bloodletters getting shot at first, but still I think it's a decent way to figure out how effective it would be in a perfect situation.

 

Edit: as far as Gal'Vorbak and if you should do a PF or a tainted weapon: looks like the PF still wins out. You should do 2 wounds with a PF but you should only expect 0-1 rends with the Martyr so the PF will be more consistent

 

Edit 2: oops! I forgot that custodes have a 5++....well cut my numbers by a 1/3 then ....I'm less confident about my plans now

Semantics but a 5man squad of Spear custodes is only 275pts (285 with Arae Shrikes).

I know you specifically said you weren't including shooting/etc, but just for reference, 5 spear custodes shooting would kill 3-4 bloodletters (18" range).

Demonic Instability could really hit you hard after that first round of combat too.

Cult Horde/Tainted Flesh Levi squads would of course be amazing, but also a fair bit of effort if you don't already have the models.

 

Given the lack of unit tax on custodes, it wouldn't surprise me to see 3-4 man squads be the norm, rahter than 5+. Then Valdor/Shield Captain in a larger squad of Hetaeron Guard or Aquilons.

 

Fortunately their lack of assault transport makes it a lot easier to try and dodge them - Even if they deep strike you get a turn to try and thin them out (A well placed Vindicator shot or two would sure go well).

 

 

Well it's not really semantics, it was me using incorrect point vales :p. I think maybe I was using the Sagittarum Guard numbersby accident. I think what has become clear is that Custodes will be tough to deal with no matter what you use. I'm still liking the idea of swamping them with cheap daemons but you're correct that they will get thinned out fast and it may only help for a turn or two.

 

 

 

So just real quick if a unit of 5 custodes charges bloodletters they will kill 5 to 6 the first turn (assuming 2 extra hits with their special rule) which will then drop to 2-3 killed each turn after that. So a 10 model unit would tie them up for 2 turns assuming they get the charge.

 

In return the bloodletters with a bloodreaper, if they manage to get the charge, should deal 2 wounds so they should kill one, and then they should do 0-1 wound each turn after.

 

I did a 5 man unit of custodes with spears for this example as I think that will be the most common. Considering the Daemons would be 105 points vs 330 points I don't think this is a bad trade. Obviously this is all in a vacuum and there are way more variables, like the bloodletters getting shot at first, but still I think it's a decent way to figure out how effective it would be in a perfect situation.

 

Edit: as far as Gal'Vorbak and if you should do a PF or a tainted weapon: looks like the PF still wins out. You should do 2 wounds with a PF but you should only expect 0-1 rends with the Martyr so the PF will be more consistent

 

Edit 2: oops! I forgot that custodes have a 5++....well cut my numbers by a 1/3 then ....I'm less confident about my plans now

Power fists all the way with GV. That sweet Str10 will ID Custodes.

 

You can also leverage army buffers like Layak to cast cursed earth to give them a 4++

 

A mhara ghal might not be a bad choice either, it's tainted power claws will mince Custodes like there's no tomorrow (plus a tankibune will not be able to re-roll his 3++, though he won't have to re-roll successful, the rules cancel out). Plus it's a match for Custodes dreads.

 

Sorry for the double post, tried to edit my other one but strange things happened.

 

As much as i love GV, they're one unit I'd be trying to keep away from Custodes. Custodes will end up striking first (Same WS, so they get +1I), and even their worst weapons cut through GV Armor. They can also easily get S10(unwieldy) on pretty much any infantry squad other than Custodian Guard which could end badly.

Any unit with Shields is only getting hit on 5's which is rough as well. 

 

The Mhara Gal is interesting being WS6/I5 (Hitting at the same time as Custodes, and hitting on 3s, or 4s for shielded units). I'd still be worried given how easily they get AP1 MC Fists, so you'd really have to pick your battles (Which is of course easier said than done).

 

Those guys certainly are terrifying in CC

 

 

The Mhara Gal does look promising, as you say though actually getting it into combat with the target you want will be challenging. I suppose you could tie them up with the cheap daemon units ;)

 

But GV have 2W a piece (3 on the martyr), so even if the Custodes strike first, you stand a good chance of at least 3 surviving. If they've taken gauntlets, then you have the initiative (except if you give the martyr a power fist, in which case he'll be trading blows, but insta-killing custodes).

 

I'm not saying it's guaranteed, but GV are probably one of the only units in HH right now that can hope to match Custodes.

 

Of course WB players also have the option of daemon tarpits, which may be the most efficient way of neutralizing Custodes lethality.

 

Having 2W is really the only thing that makes them viable here since they just have a 3+ save :(. You don't actually have initiative since the Custodes get 1+ I for having the same WS

[unerde]

Get the grimoire and cursed earth or lorgar with 4+ invuln psychic power for GV to beat the golden boys :D maybe evil, but effective.

[Plaguecaster]

If only Argal Tal had rules as it would be awesome throwing him and some Gal Vorbak into some Custodoes :D god I hope FW make him a character eventually