[HH1.0] Word Bearer's Tactics

[The Scorpion]

There are no contradictions, as you pointed out yourself DotR do never benefit from modifiers from other (allied and / or primary) detachments.

 

Yes, the 'Dark Brethren' RoW is utterly obsolete at this point in time.

 

Man, this hurts to hear. I hope the rumors of the Red Books getting a revamp after Thramas are true. But knowing Forge World, I fear that they will simply change "Codex: Chaos Demons" for "Demons of the Ruinstorm" and call it a day.

 

Horus Heresy was the one place where the Word Bearers used to get some love, but now it seems they are once again being left out in the cold.

Edited April 20, 2020 by The Scorpion

[Gorgoff]

 

 

There are no contradictions, as you pointed out yourself DotR do never benefit from modifiers from other (allied and / or primary) detachments.

 

Yes, the 'Dark Brethren' RoW is utterly obsolete at this point in time.

Man, this hurts to hear. I hope the rumors of the Red Books getting a revamp after Thramas are true. But knowing Forge World, I fear that they will simply change "Codex: Chaos Demons" for "Demons of the Ruinstorm" and call it a day.

 

Horus Heresy was the one place where the Word Bearers used to get some love, but now it seems they are once again being left out in the cold.

You must be kidding.

Word Bearers are an awesome legion with more than great special units and special characters. Apart from Dark Brethren their RoW are great too. Besides you don't need RoW to play the game.

[Unknown Legionnaire]

Precisely. Word Bearers offer some of the coolest combination / unique units possibilities in the game indeed.

[suxdavide]

Precisely. Word Bearers offer some of the coolest combination / unique units possibilities in the game indeed.

what about a few examples? :P

[The Scorpion]

I bet they mean stuff like Chaplais being able to join Ashen Circle, or the ML1 psychic Praetors. But it hardly makes up for having an obsolete RoW, especially when your other RoW is so specialized in Gal Vorbak and drop pods.

 

Not to mention it's not just the RoW that has become redundant, but the ability of the Special Characters to take allied demons as well. They're carrying a dead rule with them.

 

Book 9 is full of stuff like this, such as ruinstorm Samus "not replacing the old profile", but Ruinstorm rules rendering said old profile obsolete per actual RAW.

[Dhar'Neth]

Have anyone used Vorax with Praevian? Hatred seems powerful, however they have 4+ Save only.

[The Scorpion]

I doubt anyone has had the chance to use a Praevian. "Charismatic Leadership" means the legion has to spend 2 of it's HQ slots before starting to select other forces.

 

In fact, to have a Praevian with Dark Channeling one must take a special character: the first HQ slot belongs to the Praetor, the second to the Chaplain/Centurion, and the third to the Diabolist.

[Dhar'Neth]

After errata there is no way to get Dark Channeling on them, but they may take hatred instead - this makes Praevian viable as third HQ

[SkimaskMohawk]

I bet they mean stuff like Chaplais being able to join Ashen Circle, or the ML1 psychic Praetors. But it hardly makes up for having an obsolete RoW, especially when your other RoW is so specialized in Gal Vorbak and drop pods.

 

Not to mention it's not just the RoW that has become redundant, but the ability of the Special Characters to take allied demons as well. They're carrying a dead rule with them.

 

Book 9 is full of stuff like this, such as ruinstorm Samus "not replacing the old profile", but Ruinstorm rules rendering said old profile obsolete per actual RAW.

The tactica area is where you don't want to be spreading misinformation about stuff. Dark brethern has a very clear strategic use, while previously it was just replaced by taking one of three special characters.

 

Do you know what rites you literally don't take? Sagyar mazan. Black reaving. The reaping. Day of sorrows. Logos lectora. Headhunter leviathal. These don't offer any strategic or tactical benefit in the face of their restrictions or are only for shattered legions.

 

Word bearers are in a very good spot compared to emperor's children or salamanders, the true bottom of the bin legions.

[The Scorpion]

 

The tactica area is where you don't want to be spreading misinformation about stuff. Dark brethern has a very clear strategic use, while previously it was just replaced by taking one of three special characters.

 

Do you know what rites you literally don't take? Sagyar mazan. Black reaving. The reaping. Day of sorrows. Logos lectora. Headhunter leviathal. These don't offer any strategic or tactical benefit in the face of their restrictions or are only for shattered legions.

 

Word bearers are in a very good spot compared to emperor's children or salamanders, the true bottom of the bin legions.

 

 

Those rites are bad. But as bad as they are, they do something. Even if it's just for flavour.

 

Take Logos Lectora for example, it's bonuses are mediocre as heck, but not mediocre to the point of granting PE to characters that already have rerolls at the cost of 2 HS and 2 (or more) HQ slots.

 

The rules for Day of Sorrows, Headhunter Leviathal, Creeping Death, and such are lackluster.  Emperor's Childen and Black Reaving really suffered from the transition of 6th to 7th edition. That much is true. But the demon rules of the Word Bearers (or rather, demons of the ruinstorm) are badly written, plain and simple. Not because they are "weak", but because they serve no purpose RAW. Whether the legion is strong or weak does not change the fact that it's the only legion to be this... shallow.

 

Notice how I never complain about the tainted weapons. It's not about gaming, or meta. I don't know if it makes sense, but Demonology is supposed to be the XVIIth's speciality. That is the thing that makes them stand out from the others, not ashen circle and psychic Chaplains (as cool as they may be). What would be the point of buffing the legion to high heaven if at the end of the day they don't feel like the first heretics?

 

TL;DR: I would trade the buffs to Ashen Circle and such for a rework of the demon rules.

 

Sorry for the rants. This is the last time, I promise.

Edited September 1, 2020 by The Scorpion

[Orichalcon]

Hey guys!

 

I'm in the process of getting into 30K, and I'm still trying to pick the army for me, but in the meantime, I kind of... found a bunch of Word Bearers stuff in my closet when I moved in, so I'm starting with a foot in the Arch-Traitor camp already.

 

I know that the 17th is in kind of a rough place because of The Dark Brethren, but if I were to start them up, how would a new player get started?

 

Current Model List (still need to be put together)

40 Mk IV Marines

1 Legion Centurion with Battle Honors

5 Legion Lascannons

10 WB Mk IV Heads

10 Gal Vorbaks

1 MkIC Rhino

Lorgar

[Imren]

Start out with a centurion list. (ca 1500p only infantry, dreadnoughts and speeders allowed).

 

I suggest to build and paint up the following as a starter, play it a few times and then get a feel for what you want to build and paint after:

 

A warmonger (the legion centurion)

A chaplain

20x tacticals

10x plasma vets or plasma support squad (magnetise the wrists and weapons with 2 mm diameter N52 strength magnets).

5x Gal vobak, meltagun and sgt with powerfist

 

Overall game strategy suggestion:

• Your tacticals focus on the objectives.
• Your warmonger deep strikes in within rapid fire range with plasma vets and reduces the most threatening enemy unit.
• Your Gal vorbak deep strikes in and fights dreadnoughts. (the squad has a S10 powerfist and a meltagun)

 

This is a quite strong list, I suggest you magnetise the plasmaguns/combiplasma on the veteran squad to adjust the power of the list (see youtube for magnetising tutorials). At 1500p you can add in some more units, perhaps javelins, or assault troops.

 

The 30k community is quite fluff, modeling and painting oriented. You will enjoy the most respect and goodwill if you put in the hours and effort to paint your army well. So focus on getting the army built and painted first and then play. You will always need 20 tacticas for playing the objectives and a HQ, so start with those units. Leave the GAl vorbaks for last since they are moredemanding to paint (you should learn to paint skin nicely before painting the Gal Vorbaks).

 

There are tonnes of good horus heresy word bearers painting tutorials on youtube you can watch for inspiration.

 

I also strongly suggest to throw yourself into airbrushing and airbrush the army. Space marine armies are as if custom made for airbrushing. Get the two GW word bearers red (one is darker for shades) and also look into weathering such as chipping, oil paint pin washing etc.

 

Good luck and welcome!

[SkimaskMohawk]

It totally depends on your area what the focus of 30k is; some places it's about narrative, some places it's about gaming. In my city for example it's mostly the latter.

 

Additionally, focussing on a fan-made list/subgame is hit or miss. It skews the game quite heavily in terms of what forms a core of your army and what gets collected and isn't actually representative of the game play.

 

The core of your collection should imo be;

 

Bolter marines - use them as either tactical or veterans and give yourself the most fundamental building blocks of a list. A pride list with veterans means you only need 10 marines to fill out troops.

 

Special weapon marines - similar in purpose; give your veterans some punch or make support squads.

 

Rhino hulls - rhinos are great all around and if you leave the top hatch unglued you can swap them to whirlwinds (aka scorpius), predators or a Damocles.

 

Those are really the fundamental things that can act as building blocks for lists, help expand them and prevent things from getting stale, while also being some of the cheaper things to collect. Contemptors are a pretty safe next thing to invest in as you can swap their loadouts a lot, with the dreadclaw being the final "aim to own" unit. They're seriously incredible and accommodate multiple units.

[Lord Krungharr]

I was just looking at the Word Bearers in the Legions book tonight and they have some really interesting and warpified units! 

 

Is an army with Zardu Layak/Blade Slaves, a Diabolist, a couple or few Ashen Circle units, 2-3 Ghara Mals, and some Ghal Vorbaks viable?  I really like the idea of an all mutated army.  Probably need a transport or two too.

 

I'm thinking they could also be used in 40k (if I ever play that again)  for convenient thriftyness.

[Monkeychunks]

Zardu, Ashen Circle and Gal Vorbak are all excellent options that frequently appear in WB lists. Our Legion rule is relatively tame so we have to make up for it with absolutely baller unique units.

Unfortunately the Diabolist and Mhara Gal are generally considered sub-par and rarely seen. The Diabolist suffers because his star ability is done much better by Zardu, so he's a bit redundant. The Mhara Gal suffers from ZM-syndrome where its much better in a niche game, but not so great on an open field.

[The Scorpion]

Can the Mhara Gal take a Kharibdyss drop pod? The wording says "one dreadnought" if I'm not mistaken.

[Bung]

Can the Mhara Gal take a Kharibdyss drop pod? The wording says "one dreadnought" if I'm not mistaken.

No. The Drop Pod FaQ clarrifies which Dreadnoughts can use a Kharibdyss.

He cant have a Dreadnought Pod either as per the Last FaQ.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

Start out with a centurion list. (ca 1500p only infantry, dreadnoughts and speeders allowed).

 

I suggest to build and paint up the following as a starter, play it a few times and then get a feel for what you want to build and paint after:

 

A warmonger (the legion centurion)

A chaplain

20x tacticals

10x plasma vets or plasma support squad (magnetise the wrists and weapons with 2 mm diameter N52 strength magnets).

5x Gal vobak, meltagun and sgt with powerfist

 

Overall game strategy suggestion:

• Your tacticals focus on the objectives.
• Your warmonger deep strikes in within rapid fire range with plasma vets and reduces the most threatening enemy unit.
• Your Gal vorbak deep strikes in and fights dreadnoughts. (the squad has a S10 powerfist and a meltagun)

 

This is a quite strong list, I suggest you magnetise the plasmaguns/combiplasma on the veteran squad to adjust the power of the list (see youtube for magnetising tutorials). At 1500p you can add in some more units, perhaps javelins, or assault troops.

 

The 30k community is quite fluff, modeling and painting oriented. You will enjoy the most respect and goodwill if you put in the hours and effort to paint your army well. So focus on getting the army built and painted first and then play. You will always need 20 tacticas for playing the objectives and a HQ, so start with those units. Leave the GAl vorbaks for last since they are moredemanding to paint (you should learn to paint skin nicely before painting the Gal Vorbaks).

 

There are tonnes of good horus heresy word bearers painting tutorials on youtube you can watch for inspiration.

 

I also strongly suggest to throw yourself into airbrushing and airbrush the army. Space marine armies are as if custom made for airbrushing. Get the two GW word bearers red (one is darker for shades) and also look into weathering such as chipping, oil paint pin washing etc.

 

Good luck and welcome!

Imren, great post. As someone who is working on building up my Word Bearers I found this to be very helpful. I currently have everything you listed minus the GV right now. 

 

Can I have yours and everyone else's opinion on Land Raiders? I would like to include 2 in my Word Bearers Army. 1 for 5-man GV squad and the other for a 5-man terminator squad. I know Word Bearers aren't super in to the mechanized Army thing. If I wanted to stay fluffy, are having a couple assault tanks and a couple rhinos in a list consistent with their fluff? I plan on having at least 1x20 foot slogging infantry unit in addition to the infantry in transports. My army theme is late heresy/siege of terra.

 

Also, just pre-ordered the new Praetor (power armored) because I really liked the model. What would be the best unit to run him with? 

[suxdavide]

 

Start out with a centurion list. (ca 1500p only infantry, dreadnoughts and speeders allowed).

 

I suggest to build and paint up the following as a starter, play it a few times and then get a feel for what you want to build and paint after:

 

A warmonger (the legion centurion)

A chaplain

20x tacticals

10x plasma vets or plasma support squad (magnetise the wrists and weapons with 2 mm diameter N52 strength magnets).

5x Gal vobak, meltagun and sgt with powerfist

 

Overall game strategy suggestion:

• Your tacticals focus on the objectives.
• Your warmonger deep strikes in within rapid fire range with plasma vets and reduces the most threatening enemy unit.
• Your Gal vorbak deep strikes in and fights dreadnoughts. (the squad has a S10 powerfist and a meltagun)

 

This is a quite strong list, I suggest you magnetise the plasmaguns/combiplasma on the veteran squad to adjust the power of the list (see youtube for magnetising tutorials). At 1500p you can add in some more units, perhaps javelins, or assault troops.

 

The 30k community is quite fluff, modeling and painting oriented. You will enjoy the most respect and goodwill if you put in the hours and effort to paint your army well. So focus on getting the army built and painted first and then play. You will always need 20 tacticas for playing the objectives and a HQ, so start with those units. Leave the GAl vorbaks for last since they are moredemanding to paint (you should learn to paint skin nicely before painting the Gal Vorbaks).

 

There are tonnes of good horus heresy word bearers painting tutorials on youtube you can watch for inspiration.

 

I also strongly suggest to throw yourself into airbrushing and airbrush the army. Space marine armies are as if custom made for airbrushing. Get the two GW word bearers red (one is darker for shades) and also look into weathering such as chipping, oil paint pin washing etc.

 

Good luck and welcome!

Imren, great post. As someone who is working on building up my Word Bearers I found this to be very helpful. I currently have everything you listed minus the GV right now. 

 

Can I have yours and everyone else's opinion on Land Raiders? I would like to include 2 in my Word Bearers Army. 1 for 5-man GV squad and the other for a 5-man terminator squad. I know Word Bearers aren't super in to the mechanized Army thing. If I wanted to stay fluffy, are having a couple assault tanks and a couple rhinos in a list consistent with their fluff? I plan on having at least 1x20 foot slogging infantry unit in addition to the infantry in transports. My army theme is late heresy/siege of terra.

 

Also, just pre-ordered the new Praetor (power armored) because I really liked the model. What would be the best unit to run him with? 

 

I do have 2 land raiders:

1 is for 5 terminators with lightning claws

1 is for 5 terminators with 3 chainfists

 

As of my latest game I'll drop the claws for a 8 veteran squad (2 poweraxe, 1 heavy chainsowrd, maybe a fist) + chaplain and apo ;)

 

I'm also looking for finding a spot for an achilles:

I'll try to have the third HQ to be a siege breaker and build the list aroudn phosphex --> achilles with phosphex shells hosting 6 seeker with combiplasma ;)

[The Native]

I was just looking at the Word Bearers in the Legions book tonight and they have some really interesting and warpified units! 

 

Is an army with Zardu Layak/Blade Slaves, a Diabolist, a couple or few Ashen Circle units, 2-3 Ghara Mals, and some Ghal Vorbaks viable?  I really like the idea of an all mutated army.  Probably need a transport or two too.

 

I'm thinking they could also be used in 40k (if I ever play that again)  for convenient thriftyness.

Depending on which missions you play, you'll want some troops. A massive squad of twenty tactical marines with additional close combat weapons and an attached apothecary will be really hard to shift off an objective. Just don't expect them to do much except absorb  incoming shots and charges. Though if someone is silly enough to place a unit in range of a Fury of the Legion attack from your twenty tactical marines then they could potentially be in for a bit of a shock.

[Gorgoff]

 

I was just looking at the Word Bearers in the Legions book tonight and they have some really interesting and warpified units! 

 

Is an army with Zardu Layak/Blade Slaves, a Diabolist, a couple or few Ashen Circle units, 2-3 Ghara Mals, and some Ghal Vorbaks viable?  I really like the idea of an all mutated army.  Probably need a transport or two too.

 

I'm thinking they could also be used in 40k (if I ever play that again)  for convenient thriftyness.

Depending on which missions you play, you'll want some troops. A massive squad of twenty tactical marines with additional close combat weapons and an attached apothecary will be really hard to shift off an objective. Just don't expect them to do much except absorb  incoming shots and charges. Though if someone is silly enough to place a unit in range of a Fury of the Legion attack from your twenty tactical marines then they could potentially be in for a bit of a shock.

 

Speaking of schock.

I had a game against Raven Guard the other day and fielded a blob marines with attached apo with augury scanner and he indeed deep striked directly in front of my mob.

I furied a huge chunk of his seekers to death which was really nice.

[SkimaskMohawk]

 

 

 

 

I was just looking at the Word Bearers in the Legions book tonight and they have some really interesting and warpified units!

 

Is an army with Zardu Layak/Blade Slaves, a Diabolist, a couple or few Ashen Circle units, 2-3 Ghara Mals, and some Ghal Vorbaks viable? I really like the idea of an all mutated army. Probably need a transport or two too.

 

I'm thinking they could also be used in 40k (if I ever play that again) for convenient thriftyness.

Depending on which missions you play, you'll want some troops. A massive squad of twenty tactical marines with additional close combat weapons and an attached apothecary will be really hard to shift off an objective. Just don't expect them to do much except absorb incoming shots and charges. Though if someone is silly enough to place a unit in range of a Fury of the Legion attack from your twenty tactical marines then they could potentially be in for a bit of a shock.

Speaking of schock.

I had a game against Raven Guard the other day and fielded a blob marines with attached apo with augury scanner and he indeed deep striked directly in front of my mob.

I furied a huge chunk of his seekers to death which was really nice.

Which you can't do, since the movement phase isn't the shooting phase.

[MichaelCarmine]

 

 

 

I was just looking at the Word Bearers in the Legions book tonight and they have some really interesting and warpified units!

 

Is an army with Zardu Layak/Blade Slaves, a Diabolist, a couple or few Ashen Circle units, 2-3 Ghara Mals, and some Ghal Vorbaks viable? I really like the idea of an all mutated army. Probably need a transport or two too.

 

I'm thinking they could also be used in 40k (if I ever play that again) for convenient thriftyness.

Depending on which missions you play, you'll want some troops. A massive squad of twenty tactical marines with additional close combat weapons and an attached apothecary will be really hard to shift off an objective. Just don't expect them to do much except absorb incoming shots and charges. Though if someone is silly enough to place a unit in range of a Fury of the Legion attack from your twenty tactical marines then they could potentially be in for a bit of a shock.

Speaking of schock.

I had a game against Raven Guard the other day and fielded a blob marines with attached apo with augury scanner and he indeed deep striked directly in front of my mob.

I furied a huge chunk of his seekers to death which was really nice.

Which you can't do, since the movement phase isn't the shooting phase.

 

Well, RaW - yes he can.

Since it is different to the interceptor rule, which specifically allows you to fire a weapon at a target.

But the (errata't) Augury Scanner allows you to fire "as if it were the controlling players shooting phase".

 

Unit didn't move in that player turn- check.

Unit didn't arrive via Deep Strike in that player turn - check.

Unit didn't disembark in that player turn - check.

Shoot, as if it were the CPs shooting phase - check.

 

Edit: you could prevent them from Fury, if a Deep Striking vehicle would "make them move", like a Termite Assault drill, or a tank shock. =]

 

Fury with interceptor rule -no.

Fury with Overwatch - no.

 

Since they just allow you to fire (a) weapon(s). They do not specifically mention the CPs shooting phase.

 

Don't really know, why you wouldn't grant them Fury. =]

Edited August 31, 2021 by MichaelCarmine

[Gorgoff]

 

 

 

 

I was just looking at the Word Bearers in the Legions book tonight and they have some really interesting and warpified units!

 

Is an army with Zardu Layak/Blade Slaves, a Diabolist, a couple or few Ashen Circle units, 2-3 Ghara Mals, and some Ghal Vorbaks viable? I really like the idea of an all mutated army. Probably need a transport or two too.

 

I'm thinking they could also be used in 40k (if I ever play that again) for convenient thriftyness.

Depending on which missions you play, you'll want some troops. A massive squad of twenty tactical marines with additional close combat weapons and an attached apothecary will be really hard to shift off an objective. Just don't expect them to do much except absorb incoming shots and charges. Though if someone is silly enough to place a unit in range of a Fury of the Legion attack from your twenty tactical marines then they could potentially be in for a bit of a shock.

Speaking of schock.

I had a game against Raven Guard the other day and fielded a blob marines with attached apo with augury scanner and he indeed deep striked directly in front of my mob.

I furied a huge chunk of his seekers to death which was really nice.

Which you can't do, since the movement phase isn't the shooting phase.

 

Well, RaW - yes he can.

Since it is different to the interceptor rule, which specifically allows you to fire a weapon at a target.

But the (errata't) Augury Scanner allows you to fire "as if it were the controlling players shooting phase".

 

Unit didn't move in that player turn- check.

Unit didn't arrive via Deep Strike in that player turn - check.

Unit didn't disembark in that player turn - check.

Shoot, as if it were the CPs shooting phase - check.

 

Edit: you could prevent them from Fury, if a Deep Striking vehicle would "make them move", like a Termite Assault drill, or a tank shock. =]

 

Fury with interceptor rule -no.

Fury with Overwatch - no.

 

Since they just allow you to fire (a) weapon(s). They do not specifically mention the CPs shooting phase.

 

Don't really know, why you wouldn't grant them Fury. =]

 

Yupp, this.

You could argue but that's way too much into semantics and not about actual rules.

I shoot like in my shooting phase and Bob is my uncle.

Bolter goes DAKAKAKAAKAKAKAKAKAKAKAKAKAKA

 

Even more important is the fact, that is hell lot of fun to do.

I shot like 64 shots.

Me like throwing that many dice at once.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Michaelcarmine your entire argument is flawed because despite making an attack as if it were the shooting phase, Fury requires you to be actually in the shooting phase. It's notably the movement phase and that's the RAW of it; Movement =/= Shooting.

 

@gorgoff the rules are full of weird stuff that just works the way it does because that's how rules work. You gotta use the actual rules as the basis for discussion in a tactical; I don't talk about the house rules I use as if it were a contributing factor for units strengths and weaknesses.