greggles Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Anyone else notice we're desperate allies with black templars but in the marines codex it says we;re best buddies? Technically we are "allies of convience now. Since the BT got rolled into SM, the old allies matrix no longer applies. But most people will play as SOB as battle brothers due to the fluff. Most people won't have an issue with it, outside of tournaments. I actually love the revamp, as I'm running a 1500 point sis/templar list, where the templars go choppy choppy, and the sisters go burny burny. Something like this.... Captain with SS and relic blade 2x ironclads in drop pods 1x 9x BT CCW/pistol crusaders with sword brother, power maul, power sword in DP 1x 10x BT CCW/pistol crusaders with sword brother, power maul, power sword in DP Canoness 2x 5x Sob with bolters/hvy flamer in immolators (MM) Exorcist points left over for... Scouting dominon squad in an immolator or thunderfire cannon, plus upgrading to Marshall or pimping out canoness or stormtalon or predator/vindicator Fun times! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282146-now-that-the-new-codex-is-here-might-as-well-dance/page/2/#findComment-3501293 Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Technically we are "allies of convience now. Since the BT got rolled into SM, the old allies matrix no longer applies. But most people will play as SOB as battle brothers due to the fluff. Most people won't have an issue with it, outside of tournaments.Nope, sorry. There's a sidebar in the C:SM book that states that "any references to Codex: Black Templars in other rulebooks refer to a Codex: Space Marines army with Chapter Tactics: Black Templars." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282146-now-that-the-new-codex-is-here-might-as-well-dance/page/2/#findComment-3501321 Share on other sites More sharing options...
cypher371 Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Anyone else notice we're desperate allies with black templars but in the marines codex it says we;re best buddies? Technically we are "allies of convience now. Since the BT got rolled into SM, the old allies matrix no longer applies. But most people will play as SOB as battle brothers due to the fluff. Most people won't have an issue with it, outside of tournaments. I actually love the revamp, as I'm running a 1500 point sis/templar list, where the templars go choppy choppy, and the sisters go burny burny. Something like this.... Captain with SS and relic blade 2x ironclads in drop pods 1x 9x BT CCW/pistol crusaders with sword brother, power maul, power sword in DP 1x 10x BT CCW/pistol crusaders with sword brother, power maul, power sword in DP Canoness 2x 5x Sob with bolters/hvy flamer in immolators (MM) Exorcist points left over for... Scouting dominon squad in an immolator or thunderfire cannon, plus upgrading to Marshall or pimping out canoness or stormtalon or predator/vindicator Fun times! not a bad idea i'd say thunderfire and pimp out canoness Are you the same greggles from librarium? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282146-now-that-the-new-codex-is-here-might-as-well-dance/page/2/#findComment-3501323 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fibonacci Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Anyone else notice we're desperate allies with black templars but in the marines codex it says we;re best buddies? Technically we are "allies of convience now. Since the BT got rolled into SM, the old allies matrix no longer applies. But most people will play as SOB as battle brothers due to the fluff. Most people won't have an issue with it, outside of tournaments. There is even a quick mention of BT in the new codex. 833.M41 THE BATTLE OF FIRE AND BLOOD During the Vinculus Crusade, Black Templars join forces with the Order of the Bloody Rose to purge the heretical warrior-cults of the Peleregon cluster. The BT row in the ally matrix stays the same and is explicitly mentioned in C:SM Codex: Adepta Sororitas, on the other hand, has no entry on the ally martix. :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282146-now-that-the-new-codex-is-here-might-as-well-dance/page/2/#findComment-3501387 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greggles Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Furyou Miko, Well that's some poop. I'd say I hope GW faq's that, but GW can't faq a way out of a paper bag. So I'm wrong. :( I guess I'll just stick to local battles then, since the local guys say it makes perfect sense that they should be allies...both in fluff and in their rules. (heck they both even come with admantium will!) cypher, Yup it's me! doing more templar stuff since my ork walker list gets shot off the table faster then I can finish placing the models down. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282146-now-that-the-new-codex-is-here-might-as-well-dance/page/2/#findComment-3501388 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collective Consciousness Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 I'm happy that there are 6 strong sisters squads with 2 weapons, and heavy flamers and exorcists and immolators went down in points, and that dominions can take 4 meltiguns. I did not think that they could screw up acts of faith anymore than they did, but they managed to do it. Sisters still at 12pts each. And no sky fire upgrade for exorcists. Well, it is time to wait for the next update. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282146-now-that-the-new-codex-is-here-might-as-well-dance/page/2/#findComment-3501531 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Session Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 I got to play a couple 1850 point games today, both against the same Eldar army. Furyou Miko mentioned the Dominion outflanking "melta bomb" being pretty good so I gave them a try. The squads were armed with 4 meltaguns, 1 combi-melta and I took a priest with no upgrades. One squad got a twin linked heavy flamer Immolator and the other took a twin linked multi-melta. The first game, which was "Big Guns Never Tire", both squads came in on the sides they needed to and it went really well. I'd say the Dominion squads turned the tide of battle in my favor, a perfect Celestine solo deep strike helped too. The second game was "Purge the Alien" and I didn't fare so well, but that's how it is with a bunch of Armor 11 tin cans rolling around. My army list was much more suited for objective missions. The Dominions didn't do so hot either as I somehow forgot the Avatar was immune to flamers and meltas but I placed my models and i wasn't going to take it back. They died admirably, getting torned limb from limb by one seriously pissed of God of War. I gotta say the Acts of Faith seem much more reliable, although they are single use. The Laud Hailer came in handy, in future lists I won't be placing them on all my vehicles as it just seems to be massive over kill. The one thing that really stood out, Priests are beastly! The war hymns are something else and they alone change the way I look at assault now. Not to mention he makes your squad Fearless and gives them Hatred! Next I want to try a Priest with his own personal Battle Conclave in a pimped out Rhino or Immolator! One more experiment I tried was Jacobus with a 5 "man" Repentia Squad and 2 Priests in a Rhino. I was hoping I could get both Priests War Hymns rolling but the squad never made it into assault and more or less spent both games cruising around the battlefield just taking in the scenery. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282146-now-that-the-new-codex-is-here-might-as-well-dance/page/2/#findComment-3501735 Share on other sites More sharing options...
cypher371 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 A thing i've been thinking is perhaps to use the more aggressive faith powers early on to get an edge withe the first lot of kills... if that makes sense? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282146-now-that-the-new-codex-is-here-might-as-well-dance/page/2/#findComment-3501858 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 They're a bit similar to the Ultramarine Chapter Tactics; use them when they'll make the most difference not at the first opportunity. You should be aiming to get your units into position to use them as soon as possible but your opponent will likely have other ideas, so you shouldn't fire it off unless you don't think you'll get a better chance. I'm liking the War Hymns, I didn't really bother with Priests that much before but that may well change now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282146-now-that-the-new-codex-is-here-might-as-well-dance/page/2/#findComment-3502016 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naminé Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Priests were something I always wanted to make use of, but at 45 points a pop it was a bit ridiculous. Now they're cheaper and 10 times better, probably the closest thing in the new codex to an auto-take. Now if only they'd done more with celestians... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282146-now-that-the-new-codex-is-here-might-as-well-dance/page/2/#findComment-3502054 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 I really hope Celestians get the love they deserve next time :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282146-now-that-the-new-codex-is-here-might-as-well-dance/page/2/#findComment-3502072 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naminé Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 I think if they gave Celestians some kind of special bolters... like Salvo 3/5 at 24". Same stats as now but with an act of faith that makes them relentless, that could be quite fun. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282146-now-that-the-new-codex-is-here-might-as-well-dance/page/2/#findComment-3502090 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigrid Of Asgaror Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Celestians don't really need much to become worthwhile. I think GW just needs to decide what it is they are going to be for, because at the moment it is half melee half shooting. I regularly run them, because I really like the concept. They don't do anything amazing, but they aren't worthless. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282146-now-that-the-new-codex-is-here-might-as-well-dance/page/2/#findComment-3502100 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 I find it hard to treat something as even half melee when they don't have a CCW. Nobody is saying they're worthless - they're just not worth as much as we'd like :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282146-now-that-the-new-codex-is-here-might-as-well-dance/page/2/#findComment-3502152 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigrid Of Asgaror Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 That is kind of what I meant. GW gives them an extra attack and a melee focused AoF, but then instead of giving them access to cc weapons, instead they can have guns. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282146-now-that-the-new-codex-is-here-might-as-well-dance/page/2/#findComment-3502191 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rizara Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 they should just split the celestians into two types of units, similar to the way power armored marine vets form two units. One for dedicated assaults, the other for dedicated ranged fire fights. They could have celestians that basically have either all storm bolters as base, or combi bolters upgrades, something to make them stand out at ranged. I wouldn't want to see them have special ammo like sternguard, but even a salvo bolter would be amazing, basically they can get extra shooty bolters to make up for their skill with the bolter. The melee unit could run with all chain swords and pistols, be given options to upgrade the pistol to a plasma, inferno, or hand flamer, and their chain sword to a powersword/maul/axe, or both for an eviscirator. Maybe even allow them options for jum packs and create a real assault unit as well. I even thought about a melee ecentric unit designed to well, clear out heretics who are in fortified positions, basically a unit with storm shields, and pistols or some sort of stun mace. Maybe have the unit be 3-6 tops, max out at 6, and have two of them upgrade to taking a hand flamer, and the superior basically can upgrade a stun mace to a power maul. Basiclaly have the stun mace as a +1 str melee weapon with concusion, ap -, would give them some strength and knock down ability, but not make them overpower. The storm shields would be the survivability aspect, but it makes no sense for a combat shield since the idea would be having a movable wall so they can break into a room and knock out the heretics or purge with fire. Just hope they add some more flavor to a real codex update, as the sisters could use some more diversity, and it would give them a reason to make plastic kits if they made dual kits for an old unit and a new unit. It does currently stink that basically every army of sisters you will see is nothing more than basic sisters (2-3 squads on average), dominions (2 squads), seraphim (1 squad), exorcists, and now the new flavor of the month, command squad with canoness and toss in some priests, with the occassional retribution squad, lots of immolators/rhinos, and every now and then penitent engines and conclave stuff. Celestians are almost never on the field, they just simply aren't worth their points. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282146-now-that-the-new-codex-is-here-might-as-well-dance/page/2/#findComment-3502285 Share on other sites More sharing options...
cypher371 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 I thought that maybe celestians should have "blessed ammunition" or something giving all their bolters ignores cover... or imagine that as a general unit upgrade like grey knights psybolts... Also i think the handflamer and inferno pistol should just be outright added to the wargear list... and the blade of abmonition should be 5pts cheaper.... its not near enough to the axe of blind fury to warrant it's points cost... also would be nice to be able to hav both the blade of admonition and the mantle of ophelia....Would also be nice to have zealots (an imperial reflection of chaos cultists) and arbites.... and bring back the confessors....D3 flakk missile shots as say a 10-20pt upgrade for exorcists... and maybe tweak the faith for repentia to be used in enemy shooting or either assault.... make dominions twin linked again and make it so at beginning of game roll a d3 and that's how many times each unit can use faith or martydom gives all units a free faith use?and 11pts a basic sister.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282146-now-that-the-new-codex-is-here-might-as-well-dance/page/2/#findComment-3502458 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RolandTHTG Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 At the risk of keeping this a "what we want next time" listing already, what about Celestians just come with Stormbolters. Have a little more firepower than the regular sister squad, but can still follow up a salvo with a charge, so they can use their assault abilties. Plus it makes that poor SB sister suddenly valuable. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282146-now-that-the-new-codex-is-here-might-as-well-dance/page/2/#findComment-3502479 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigrid Of Asgaror Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 At the risk of keeping this a "what we want next time" listing already, what about Celestians just come with Stormbolters. Have a little more firepower than the regular sister squad, but can still follow up a salvo with a charge, so they can use their assault abilties. Plus it makes that poor SB sister suddenly valuable. Give them chainswords as standard too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282146-now-that-the-new-codex-is-here-might-as-well-dance/page/2/#findComment-3502584 Share on other sites More sharing options...
cypher371 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 or a free swap for bolter, and add handflamer/inferno pistol to special weapon options... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282146-now-that-the-new-codex-is-here-might-as-well-dance/page/2/#findComment-3502608 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Afrikprophet Posted October 22, 2013 Author Share Posted October 22, 2013 At the risk of keeping this a "what we want next time" listing already, what about Celestians just come with Stormbolters. Have a little more firepower than the regular sister squad, but can still follow up a salvo with a charge, so they can use their assault abilties. Plus it makes that poor SB sister suddenly valuable. TJWyrm that is a good idea that I hadn't thought about before. One positive is that you can do this with the current codex for a couple of points. I just pulled out all of my sisters and tried to think of what I can do with the storm bolter minis that I never field as storm bolters. Since I tend to take a mutually-supporting-units strategy when I play I could easily pair the stormbolter Celestians up with a sob squad let the SoBs shoot/burn up a unit and the Celestians finish the job with shooting and assault thus freeing up the scoring SoB unit to move on to the next objective/target. Could have them run behind the rhino carrying the Sisters of Battle and save the cost of a transport. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282146-now-that-the-new-codex-is-here-might-as-well-dance/page/2/#findComment-3502872 Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 I just field my Storm Bolters as special-issue Heavy Bolters. An extra CCW won't fix Celestians, they'll just suffer from the same problem as Flayed Ones - 3 attacks and no chance to use them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282146-now-that-the-new-codex-is-here-might-as-well-dance/page/2/#findComment-3502980 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinnerBeta Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 So I heard a lot of people say that Priest is almost an auto-include, but could someone explain to me why ? Granted I'm currently a bit busy so I didn't have the time to test him out yet. From what I see in the codex he got cheaper and more interesting, but he still needs to be in close combat to use his new skills (unless the wording in epub is different again) and with the exception of Repentias I don't want any of my Sisters in close combat and even these buffs won't save them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282146-now-that-the-new-codex-is-here-might-as-well-dance/page/2/#findComment-3503286 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greggles Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 He makes the unit fearless, and gives them hatred, in addition to his battle hymm abilities in CC. Add to large sister group, charge something to tarpit it for a good portion of the game. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282146-now-that-the-new-codex-is-here-might-as-well-dance/page/2/#findComment-3503316 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fibonacci Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 I would not say priests are auto-include but they do have some benifits that you can use. More so if you design your army around close combat. When added to a BSS, you can add another special weapon plus given them a little more resiliance if they are assaulted. Good for forward objective capturing units. I would consider taking them with 9 battle sisters and a rhino like this. They can be used to open up to 5 battle conclaves. A priest, 3 Crusaders and 3 DCA can still kick out a lot of damage for just over 100 points. They will get shot up but all you need is for oneunit to make it into base contact with a Tau gunline or even a Necron warrior blob to see some carnage. If you normally play agressive with this army a priest is a handy set of bonuses. If you prefer to stand back and shoot, they are little more than a plasma gun. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282146-now-that-the-new-codex-is-here-might-as-well-dance/page/2/#findComment-3503322 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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