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Night Lords fall


Ada

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Hi, don't often post outside the WIP forum but I have been looking through Massacre and more specifically the time line of the final years of the great crusade.

 

Now, it states that the Night Lords destroyed Nostramo in 984 M30, if I recal

correctly he did this following a brutal fight with Rogal Dorn which left Dorn hospitalised (so to speak) and slaughtering a whole load of Fulgrims Palatin blade elites.

 

He then fled and destroyed Nostramo.

 

Istvaan was bought into compliance ten years late by the Raven Gaurd, and the drop site massacre happened twelve years after compliance.

 

What the heck were the Night Lords doing all that time, and, why did Dorn send them as part of the second wave??

Surely destroying thier own home world and assaulting fellow legionaries and a Primarch would have been enough to see them ex communicates?

 

Have I missed something here?

 

Apologies if I have missed something vital, the Heresy is quite a lot more complex since I got back into the hobby and I must confes I have not read all of the books, but this really does look like a huge hole in the story to me.

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They were "ex-comunicated" however, the Imperium was by then caught up in administrative stuff that made the capture and punishment of the Night Lords a secondary priority. by the time Horus turned, that was far worse than a Legion gone slightly Rogue, that's why they were in the second wave, where their brutal ways of war was useful.

 

at least that's how I see it (and remember it from various texts)

 

- Luther

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The Night Lords were not considered enemies or traitors after the destruction of Nostramo. As far as the Administrators on Terra knew, Nostrame had jsut defied one of the Primarchs and he chose to destroy it. Not a big issue by itself. The fight with Dorn was a thing amongst brothers, where Dorn had angrily confronted Curze about his nihilistic visions, and Curze had not reacted well to Dorns accusations. Not the best form, but still nothing to be worried about.

However, after the destruction of Nostramo the campaigns of the Night Lords started to get more and more violent. In the past they had been ruthless and strict, but not to a degree of celebrating the destruction of a world. But after the destruction of Nostramo, they became more and more sadistic, raiding worlds who had barely done anything to defy the Imperium, or really had done nothing wrong at all. As more and more reports reached Terra about how the Night Lords were now conducting their campaigns, the Emperor started to become concerned, and now issued the summon for Curze to answer for his actions back on Terra. This may well have been a few years after the desctuction of Nostramo. The older sources do not go into detail. But it may have taken a few years for the independent reports of the Night Lords atrocities to reach Terra.

However, before Curze could be recalled, the attack on Istvaan III happened, and there were suddenly significantly more serious matters to consider than one Primarch's conduct during his still seemingly Imperial persecution of the Great Crusade.

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Cheers for the feedback guys. I guess my original post and the suggestion of a hole was a bit strong. I think FW and Black Library will have their story lines pretty tight.

 

I just thought that when you consider the all of the events together they make for a pretty damning case for Konrad specifically and his legion by proxy to expect some sort of backlash from the imperium.

 

I would have expected Dorn to pursue Curze a little more aggressively, following their fight and all the subsequent increasingly aggressive compliance campaigns during the time leading up to the heresy.

 

I didn't consider the time it takes for information to filter back through the galaxy though so I guess the time line isn't that far fetched.

And of course with events unfolding at the start of the heresy Konrads actions would take a bit of a back seat.

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Agreed when looked at in that light he's almost handing the Emperor the rope to hang him with.

 

I think one thing that ought to be remembered is Nostromo's location. It's way out on the eastern edge of the Galaxy. Hell of a long way from Terra and the warp isn't the most reliable of postage services. It's not implausible that word of a world being destroyed, particularly a legion homeworld, would have taken time to get around.

 

The only thing I'm slightly surprised about is the fact that Russ wasn't dispatched to bring him to Terra if indeed it was known well before Istvaan that Konrad and the VIII were off the beaten track in terms of prosecuting the Great Crusade

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Well here's the thing, unlike with Russ and Magnus, the Night Lords were still contributing to the Crusade. We know that's a major factor since the Word Bearers were censured for just being too slow. So it's entirely possible that they went "Well, we know they're ignoring us, but they're beinging qorlds to compliance and there's no one around to start fights with, let's just leave them alone.
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Agreed, Perturabo's turning always struck me as a little too impulsive. Worse things had been done by Primarchs and forgiven - case in point, most of the Night Lords' conquests and interventions, as well as the World Eaters'.

 

I'd really like to see that side of the Astartes from the Emperor's POV, how he viewed his more monstruous sons and grandsons. Did the Big E really feel that they were necessary or were they put up with because they were his sons and, say what you will about his attempt at fatherhood, the Emperor did care for them.

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He cared not. He turned against his own sons. The Emperor started a galaxy wide war -that means billions of dead people- just because censored.gif you. War means civilian casualties, property destruction, beat, murder. In his case also tiranny, because was to establish a dictatorship -his own. Then some of his sons were going totenkopf nuts and he don't cared much. He send a drunk -one of his sons- to take another one -Magnus- just because he was trying to give him some advice about the treachery. And was the Emperor's fault for not explaining the perils of what he was doing in Terra to Magnus, but who cares, just go and kill your brother, Russ, because he loves me so much that he has disobeyed me in order to give me advice about how my favourite son is going to betray me. Also pissing off Angron, Curze and Perturabo for no reason. Not forget to utterly killing/expunge the two missing brothers.

The Emperor was a jerk, a terrible father, a tyrant, and he deserves well his fate in the Golden Throne.

:D

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Ha, spoken like a true veteran of the long war Maximvs!!!

 

It's a good point about Perturabo though, but I would say with him he wasn't really "bad" in the sense that Curze clearly became. Perturabo was manipulated by Horus and struck out on his home world because he had simply reached the end of his tether. Then of course he was informed of Horus' rebellion and just caved in because he was ashamed of what he had done. In Angel Exterminatus you can clearly tell that he is in the heresy for different reasons to Fulgrim or Angron for instance.

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He send a drunk -one of his sons- to take another one -Magnus- just because he was trying to give him some advice about the treachery.

Unbelievable advice that, on the act of telling, destroyed the greatest thing to come to the Imperium since tanks that run on trees. Besides, Magnus should know that nobody likes a tattletale.

 

And was the Emperor's fault for not explaining the perils of what he was doing in Terra to Magnus,

Who knew the Primarchs needed so much hand holding?

 

but who cares, just go and kill your brother, Russ, because he loves me so much that he has disobeyed me in order to give me advice about how my favourite son is going to betray me.

Don't forget, it was that favoured son that shifted the order from "nab Magnus" to "stab Magnus," contrary to what the Emperor had wanted.

 

Also pissing off Angron, Curze and Perturabo for no reason. Not forget to utterly killing/expunge the two missing brothers.

Interesting that you see how some Primarchs grew at an exponential rate, to a point, and yet here you have three complete babies.

 

The Warmaster was a jerk, a terrible brother, a tyrant, and he deserves well his fate in the Vengeful Spirit.

 

:D

I fixed some spelling errors, nothing major.

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I'm with Cormac on every single one of those. Although I do agree that the Emperor was a tyrant, mileage varies on whether he was the one tyrant to truly be right in his assumption that an iron [power] fist was necessary to guide Mankind to its destiny safe and sound.

 

Of course, even if he was right, the execution of his plans wasn't exactly the best.

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I wouldn't call Angron and Curze 'babies'. The Emperor did nothing to gain Angron's loyalty, and actively planted the seeds for his rebellion... which honestly would've happened with or without Horus. Curze had nothing against the Emperor, in fact he was very faithful. The problem is the environment which he grew up in, and the fact that he had no control over his psychic abilities. Also doesn't help the Emperor publicly condemned the Night Lords while condoning them behind the curtain. 

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I hate people who tears posts by paragraph to dismember an argument laugh.png so old technique.

Still was Emperor's fault, not Magnus. Is not that hard to say "hey kid, if you're messing with warp while I'm fixing the webway you will unleash the hell on Terra".
Russ still a fratricidal drunkard, while also a baby. Anyways, Angron, Curze, Perturabo were not "three babies". Angron was rised in the arena, kidnaped by his father to let his companions being slaughtered -such a brave and honourable act, Curze was tormented with visions of the future -who happened to be right- that his unholy father ignored. And Perturabo was loyal and get constantly pissed off by no reason.

By the way, you have not fixed nothing in the last quote you corrupted, Cormac tongue.png

Your Emperor was one hypocrite of the worst kind, and now he's paying for his sins. Ten thousand years of suffering and since the plot is not going to advance, the last year would be like eternity for him smile.png

I wouldn't call Angron and Curze 'babies'. The Emperor did nothing to gain Angron's loyalty, and actively planted the seeds for his rebellion... which honestly would've happened with or without Horus. Curze had nothing against the Emperor, in fact he was very faithful. The problem is the environment which he grew up in, and the fact that he had no control over his psychic abilities. Also doesn't help the Emperor publicly condemned the Night Lords while condoning them behind the curtain.



QFT^^
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Except that even Magnus recalled how he ans the Emperor talked about the vagaries of the warp and how the Emperor told him not to travel too far into its depths.

 

And frankly, if you dig deep enough, all of the Primarchs are hypocrites of one color or another.

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What is this thread even?

 

Night Lords where at Istvaan V because a whats a planet and a bit of torn flesh in the face of open rebellion?

 

Angron was a baby now? Say wha? I wont rise to the bait, but Betrayer puts it all pretty well.

 

Perturabo wanted to point out the flaws of what the Emperor was doing, he went traitor because of that, at least thats what I got out of it. More a 'hold the king accountable' than 'burn the stars'.

 

Angron went traitor because he was never loyal.

 

Curze went traitor because that was the fate he already saw for himself, self fulfilling prophecy and all that.

 

The Big E was a Tyrant, cant be denied. Was it a required evil? Just like Curze? Just like Angron? Maybe, but he still was.

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I have always thought you can find a lot of similarities between Emps and Konrad, right down to Emps facing Horus because "Sometimes the only victory is to keep your opponent from winning" to Curze letting M'Shen take his head because "Death is nothing compared to vindication".
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Self fulfilling prophecies fail to convince me. Curze was a depressed lunatic on his better days and a rabid thing on the others. Sanguinius had visions too and didn't simply accept their inevitability.

 

And 'babies' isn't that inaccurate. It's one thing to be idealistic, nothing wrong with it on a principle. It's another not to accept that hipocrisies happen throughout life and forgo doing one's part to make things right. What I mean is, Curze used the Emperor's goals to justify him keeping his bloodshed approach.

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Self fulfilling prophecies fail to convince me. Curze was a depressed lunatic on his better days and a rabid thing on the others. Sanguinius had visions too and didn't simply accept their inevitability.

 

And only one of them wound up dead with his gene sons sinking ever deeper into madness and corruption.

 

Oh, wait...:p

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I think arrogance plays a pretty huge part in the Night Lords, Sev being a reflection of his Primarch.

 

Curze lived based on his visions. Especially as the story has progressed.

Sev didnt relate to people because he was 'never wrong'.

 

Curze felt his way was the only way, he 'knew' the future, and it drove him mad. Since he knew the future, he perpetuated actions that would realize that future, because to him, it was a forgone conclusion.

 

The Angel has nothing on Curze in terms of his gift/curse, not from what we have seen so far.

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The thing about the Night Lords that bugs me (and people's post-A D-B adoration of them) is that how in the hell did anyone ever think Kurze should've been anything besides put down?

 

He is never lucid, he can't have normal conversations, he's super creepy, he kills random people ALL the time, he sees how everyone will die (which in no way is some kind of power a Justiciar would have, more like see everyone's crimes like Minority Report), he ATE people growing up (which Im sure A D-B did for shock value :P, why would Kurze need to eat when it's been stated elsewhere they don't need to).

 

I mean I can understand having a 'Punisher' that is super brutal in true Roman fashion, but you don't give the command of the Legion of Uwe Boll film characters to the guy screaming 'the end is nigh' and 'enjoy your heart attack in twelve years, six months, and three days!'

 

 

*This is in no way a criticism of A D-B. Please keep posting regularly.*-Messaged approved by the Council to Encourage Forum Participation by Authors or CEFPA.

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