Alternate Heresy Community Project

[Wade Garrett]

I like your idea, Cormac.

 

Perhaps the two groups compete against each other in...just about everything, and this can lead to forces made of a mixture between them getting in over their heads when older and wiser Astartes from either camp aren't around to remind them that Daddy loves us all, you know.

 

Yes, even that foul up, Thiel.

 

No, I don't get it either. Dad's just a cool guy like that, I guess.

[Ace Debonair]

Angron gets a proper family?

Bron is SO gonna kill or capture one or more of them to bait Angron into a trap.

I mean, it doesn't have to go to plan, exactly. Angron, instead of reacting in rage and fury, can react like an opportunist and have his Legion blow up something vital to Bron's war effort while pretending he's gone on the rampage at the nearest group of White Scars, or something.

[Wade Garrett]

My thoughts were that this is how Bron gets the upper hand in their personal war:

 

Angron's ethics mean he cannot (okay, will not) abandon the people of the Imperium to Bron's terror tactics.

 

So the Scarred Lord can goad him into reacting by ripping through planets with no strategic value, knowing Angron will be honor bound to respond.

 

In their little battle of "I know that you know that I know ad nauseum", Bron can always be certain the Lions will come to the aid of a threatened world.

[Ace Debonair]

I'm starting to warm up to using The Worldburner as a nickname for Bron, if only so I can use the following line when writing about the White Scars.

 

 

"Worldburner, the Lord of Scars, the Prince of Nightmares. Impaler, Scourge, Monster. A man with a dozen names, none more terrifying than his own. Lasartine Bron."

 

 

I'm also trying to think of a nice advantage to give Angron so that Bron hesitates before using innocent worlds as a target to bait the War Hounds Lions into obvious traps.

[Conn Eremon]

What if he does it once, and he loses because of it? It occurs to him that making them angry isn't the best idea. But, it's still their greatest weakness, as it makes them predictable. So it doesn't degenerate into Bron doing the same thing over and over. It remains the highly technical feint and maneuvering. But Bron is looking for that moment where he can most utilize that weakness to his advantage, and only then.

 

In other words, Bron isn't looking for many battles to hurt Angron with, because he can be hurt just as easily. No, he's looking for that one world with which he can take them out for good. The knockout punch.

 

Not Macragge, though. Bron needs a world important enough that he can capitalize on the mistakes they'd make, but not so important that he turns them into cornered Hulks.

 

For delicious irony, Bron's defeat could be Calth.

[Ace Debonair]

That works for me, if it works for Wade.

Angron rushes in to save the beleaguered world, does something that Bron doesn't expect, and turns what should have been the Lions going to die bravely into Angron and sons tearing up and coming at the White Scars like a bear with chainsaw arms.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

I apologize about the delay, coursework has been crazy.

XVIII Legion "Solar Tigers"

Primarch: Anubis the Ensarhaddon
Homeworld: Prospero
Heraldry: A staff flanked by a pair of tigers rampent
Colors: Dust orange, grey white helmets and pauldrons, veterans helmets platinum.
Battle Cry: "For Emperor and Prospero" (Not to sure, may change)
Specialization: High quality war gear, high number of apothecaries, high quality librarians, high use of plasma weapons and land speeders, defensive strategies, with mobile elements used to deflect enemy focus onto defended areas.

[Conn Eremon]

Nice, Ridcully! Would you mind posting a brief summary of Anubis and the Solar Tigers, like their actions and surrounding events?

[Hyaenidae]

IV Legion: Iron Hoplites

Primarch: Perturabo the Hypaspistai
Homeworld: Chemos
Heraldry: Iron Mask of Chemos, edged in lightning bolts and stylized wings
Colors: Iron, gold and obsidian
Battle Cry: "Honour Within. Iron Without"
Specialization: Shield Walls and swordsmanship. Ballistic weapons avoided when possible, though the legion is known for massed firepower when dealing with alien races.

 

VII Legion: Blackened Fists

Primarch: The Haunted, Rogal Dorn
Homeworld: Unknown (Nostromo)
Heraldry: Obsidian Gauntlet, haloed with thorns
Colors: unpainted ceramite, arms blackened with old blood to elbows
Battle Cry: None known. Vox casts of victims common.
Specialization: Night ambushes and raw brutality. Examples are made of opponents, usually through torture, mutilation, and impalement or crucifixion. Edged weapons considered useless, powered gauntlets and Power Fists most common.

 

 

++++Add more tonight++++

[Noctus Cornix]

Yay, free time! Here we go then:

EDIT:

Left a word out.

 

Fulgrim and the Emperor's Children are the ones who discover Corax's plan to kill the Emperor and rule in his stead. Fulgrim confronting his brother is what really starts the inter-Legionary wars.

The EC are present at the siege of Terra, where Fulgrim and Konrad work together to finally topple the mighty Arch-Betrayer, although Fulgrim's probably gonna get maimed further in the process, because Chaos Corax is all kinds of powerful.

 

 

The White Scars and Lasartine Bron side with Corax and loathe Fulgrim for shattering the one honest chance for galactic peace humanity had.

 

Bron probably does something during the Great Atrocity, but I don't think we settled on anything yet.

 

 

The Astral Wolves and Lupercal don't really formally pick a side. Corax has his allies whisper of Jonson's empire building to Lupercal, painting Jonson as a malicious usurper. Lupercal goes to cast down his brother's tyranny, but Jonson is his equal in strategy and guile, and the battle becomes a long-running war.

 

When the Astral Wolves see how Corax and his other brothers embrace and swear themselves to Chaos, Lupercal and his lads take a third option and find some other corner of the galaxy to lurk in. They stay there and fight all comers, until Lupercal's death, whereupon the Legion shetters into a hundred warbands and goes all over the place.

 

I like this.

[Ace Debonair]

I figured if Chaos Horus is powerful enough to beat up the Emperor, Fulgrim and Konrad are going to have to get their butts handed to them by Chaos Corax, winning only by tenacity, teamwork, and probably a bit of luck.

Also having the Warmaster lie to Lupercal about Jonson made me chuckle, as it's not too dissimilar to Canon Horus twisting Russ' orders about how he should deal with Magnus.

[Noctus Cornix]

Makes sense, mate.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

-FILE ACCESS NUMBER:IIIX/LEGION/XVIII.-

-ACCESS TERMINAL:237583/GAMMA-BETA/RYZA-94840

Recent events have disrupted my work of compiling a treatise on the history and honors of the Emperor's Space Marine legions, however I shall endeavor to finish this work before all records of the beginnings of the crusade are lost my lord. 

And so I come to the XVIII legion, the Solar Tigers of Lord Anubis the Ensarhaddon of Prospero.

The actions of the legion prior to their reunion with the Gene sire was covered in Herdotias's "A History of the pre Primarch legions" to a degree that is beyond my ability to improve, so I shall defer to his coverage.

The XVIII legion, renamed the Solar Tigers upon their finding of their gene father spent the next two years gathering upon Prospero, Anubis acquainting himself with his suns and teaching the rites and arts of his homeworld to those of his sons who could wield the powers of the warp. It was after 26 Imperial terran standard months that reports came of an massive ork WHAAGHH that had somehow been missed by the divided IIX who had passed nearish to the prospero cluster several decades prior.

It was in response to this fully half the legion responded, led by their gene sire who was aiding the navigators in guiding the fleet.

 

 

More to come.

[Conn Eremon]

I'm going to start going through the thread and try yo gather everyone's information, get some order going. Might take some time, because laziness, but thought I'd let you all know.

 

To give some actual meat to this post, here are some rudimentary organization ideas I had for the four Legions of mine. Heathens, if anything rubs you wrong about the Orders (renamed from the Order to accommodate more Orders), let me know.

 

First Legion – Jonson the Palatine, the Jackal

 

Ordered into Cohorts, raised from specific areas and named for those areas. Though tied by name and recruitment, a Cohort is not necessarily tied down to a world or area. Many Cohorts have been raised from populations of worlds they have never seen again, and are updated on only by the tales gleaned from incoming recruits. Following the Atrocity, the Palatine used this network of bases across these worlds, and the ties his Cohorts had to them, to lock down those worlds loyal to him in the face of the war that ravaged the Imperium. Many worlds, and no small number of Cohorts, were lost in assaults by Lupercal and Adra’Melek. However, being a larger than normal Legion at nearly a 150,000 Legionaries, the First Legion is more than capable of meeting these two smaller Legions.

 

1st Cohort ‘Palatium,’ the elite veterans of the First Legion, symbolic defenders of their home world, Mundus Planus, and personal Cohort of the Palatine.

 

131st Cohort ‘Midaem,’ a Cohort raised within the Midas Cluster in the midst of its conquest by the First Legion. The 131st Cohort proved instrumental in the final years of the conquest and continue to draw recruits from the many human worlds within.

 

 

Red Corsairs – Leman Barbedoro, the Golden-Tongued

 

Ordered into Fleets, because it’s simple and obvious, like Leman would like, and because Squadrons would sound ridiculous. Unlike the First Legion, the Fleets of the Red Corsairs vary heavily in size, ranging from a single ship holding a mere hundred Marines, to an array of capital ships carrying many thousands of Marines. These Fleets are very fluid, often being formed wholesale from greater Fleets or gathering together to create a larger Fleet. As such, the total size of the Red Corsairs is difficult to pinpoint, with estimated numbers putting the Legion as high as 95,000 Marines, spread across over a thousand capital ships, though it is believed that they may number higher. As the Red Corsairs have no official Legion Holdings upon any Imperial World, their recruitment programs and subjects are largely unknown. It is suspected that many must come from within the populations of their own indentured crew, though their numbers suggest that there must be other means. Some point to the patterns of movement among the Fleets, which have a tendency to gather or return to areas of Segmentum Pacificus that has been largely unexplored and unmapped, as an explanation. However, no investigation was launched before the matter was proven a moot point by the betrayal of the Red Corsairs.

 

13th Fleet, commanded by Strike Admiral Vongalg aboard his flagship, the Brother in Honor. The fighting men of the 13th Fleet have taken to calling themselves the Honoured Brethren, though, as is typical among the Red Corsairs, it is an informal name important only to those within the 13th Fleet.

 

 

Angels – Sanguinius the God-King, the Angel of Death

 

Ordered into Hosts, named for the heavenly armies of Colchis’ old religions, whose greatest warriors shone so bright that when the sun was gone they would appear as pinpricks of light in the dark sky. The numbers of the Legion of Angels is constantly in flux, with hyper-active recruitment programs building high numbers only to have them reduced drastically in protracted campaigns, though the cause of these high losses are unknown. The last official investigation of the Legion put their numbers at around 115,000 Legionaries, however evidence has shown following the Atrocity that the actual numbers may be more than double that.

 

Nam Uggae, Host of the Red Creed. Named for an ancient apocryphal belief, the Nam Uggae have ever been lesser in their Legion’s eyes, resulting in low recruits and supplies over decades of service. However, their resolute support of the God-King’s ascendancy saw them chosen as the Legion’s heralds to what the Legion has accepted as the True Gods. Since their return, their stars have risen nearly as quickly as Sanguinius’ has.

 

 

Orders of the Sword – Magnus the Ghost Fox, the Red-Maned King

 

Ordered into Knighthoods representing the myriad kingdoms of Caliban who swear fealty to Magnus, their High King. The Legion of the Ghost Fox has never been of great size. Anomolies within the gene-seed dropped their numbers to a single thousand by the time Magnus was discovered upon Caliban. Though the discovery of their Primarch has appeared to have stabilized them, Magnus’ insistence on exacting standards of recruitment, stemming solely from the feudal world of Caliban, has made for a slow build-up of numbers. At the time of the Atrocity, the Order of the Sword numbered 47 Knighthoods, equal to the number of kingdoms that dominated Caliban upon its unification under the Red-Maned King, with a total of 64,000 Legionaries.

 

‘Knights of the Order’ Knighthood, based upon the Order, of no other name, that had first taken in the young Magnus, and from which he had conquered or assimilated all others of Caliban to his banner. The Ghost Fox, in his attempts to peacefully gather the many, often combative, Orders together, considered himself as separate and apart from any one Order. In his stead, he elevated Luther to command the Order. Upon the Imperium’s arrival and the introduction of the XVth Legion to their Primarch, the Knights of the Order became the Legion’s elite, veteran core. Though too old to be implanted with gene-seed, the nonetheless gene-enhanced Luther remains in command. Though second-in-command of the Legion, his inability to operate as many of the sons of Magnus do has begun to create friction, especially between Luther and Ahriman, a powerful Terran Seer whose skills in divination has saw him rise to be only just under Luther in command.

 

‘Seers of Sovereignty’ Knighthood, based upon a small Order that had utilized its esoteric talents towards the governance of its vassal lands, which proved profitable and advantageous. The Legion has often utilized the Knighthood for stabilizing certain worlds that resisted compliance, not moving on until the previously recalcitrant population have been appropriately modified to Imperial standards.

[Ace Debonair]

Ridcully: Interesting stuff so far!

 

Cormac: That's a pretty cool summary, and it's got me pondering ideas again.

 

As in, I'm pretty sure the White Scars would have Brotherhoods still, the Astral Wolves would have Great Companies (but refer to them informally as Crews within the Legion) and the Emperor's Children would have Companies (Maybe then going to Great Companies after the Atrocity? Hmm.)

[Conn Eremon]

Is the term "Millenials," canon EC 'Chapter' organizations pre-Primarch? I think so, but I'm not sure.

 

I would assume the Dragonslayer's Legion would organize themselves like a cross between canon EC's Millenials, led by Lord Commanders, and IH Clans, led by Chiefs, I believe. Commanders-in-Chief of the Thousand Clans? :p

 

Or you can forego that altogether and name them whatever the heck you'd like. My Legions will be, by and large, a cross between their canon pre-Primarch Legion and the Legion based off of that world in canon, where I can do that. Jonson and Leman couldn't, as they are too different from the Primarchs they replace. But the Angels could easily be that, though I found nothing on them from before Sanguinius is found.

 

The Orders of the Sword will be a better melding between the two, with psyker disciplines existing outside the normal hierarchy, but intermixed throughout, like with the canon Thousand Sons, right alongside knightly disciplines, referred to as Wings, just like with the canon First Legion. Separate offices, with their own internal hierarchies, that thread themselves throughout the Orders.

 

Edit: Heathens had Magnus surrender much of his cosmic power for the sake of stabilizing his sons. I've been thinking extending that to his sons, like saying that the means of stabilizing the flesh change was to have their own talents burn out. While Magnus is still a powerful psyker, I'm thinking like Lorgar is when he first begins to uncover his talents, Caliban's recruitment has seen the Legion of Psykers get heavily diluted with plain ol' Ser GI Joe's. It's got a huge, powerful Librarius, but it no longer encompasses the entirety of the Legion. Making an office, called Brotherhoods, I believe, with equal authority and widespread nature as the Wings.

[Wade Garrett]

Let's see....

 

The Imperial Hounds would organize themselves into Squadrons, each one specialized for a different role (orbital blockade, planetary drop pod assaults, pirate/raider hunting, dedicated line combat) and named for the gods, spirits, and devils of their icy home.

 

Celestial Lions...I know Cormac posted about Angron's Legion being Echelons back when they were still War Hounds, but I think I'll have it as "Prides", named for their commanding officers (Orfeo's Pride, Khârn's Pride, etc) with each of them having a little of everything (Terminators, Bikers, artillery, armor, etc) and theoretically able to slot themselves into any role.

 

The Echelons I'll shift to Barabbas, who would prefer his Legion be organized into a few large chunks versus the more divvied up Lions and Hounds.

 

The Minotaurs...is there anything about how the X was organized when they were still the Storm Walkers? I just can't see Ferrus giving enough of a [redacted] to institute sweeping changes to their organization.

[Conn Eremon]

While I like the character it instills having organizations named like that, having Lion Prides does veer a bit into the Wolfgang McWolferson territory of 40k's Space Wolves. I do like it, though. Just please no Thundercats.

 

As for the Xth, I'll look it up right now.

 

Edit: It looks like Ferrus Manus was found too quickly for the Legion to fully distinguish itself without him. The only thing I could find on their organization was that they were led by a Lord Commander. I suspect that the base Legion hierarchy in Massacre is what most fits the Iron Tenth before Ferrus Manus utterly remade them. You can find it on Lexicanum, on the Space Marine Legions page.

 

Which wouldn't be the case here. I think the Xth Legion would have a more distinctive identity. The Storm Walkers was a nickname others had for them that was immediately squashed by their Primarch's immediate discovery. Here, they could actually become the Storm Walkers in truth, like the Luna Wolves, Dusk Raiders and Imperial Heralds. As such, I think you have free reign to name their pre-Primarch organizations as you see fit, though it seems to me that the more dramatic changes are wrought solely by Primarch hands.

[Wade Garrett]

To be honest, I was thinking of Lyon's Pride from Fallout 3 when I had that particular flash of "inspiration", but I think I can make it fit into that culture of Legion rivalry and competitiveness we were talking about the XII having.

 

You aren't just competing against the 42nd Company, you're competing with your brother officer Damocles.

 

Also, would having the Squads be "Claws" a la the canon Night Lords be a step too far?

[Conn Eremon]

Honestly, yeah. At least, to me it'd be a step too far.

 

I think the biggest thing is to make whatever names you give it feel natural to the Legion and the home world. As the War Hounds didn't have Prides, it will have to originate from Macragge. Perhaps from the tribal lands of Illyrium?

[Wade Garrett]

I think I already mentioned that Angron of Maccrage ended up peacefully integrating the hill tribes into his realm of Maccrage.

 

Perhaps the "Prides" were a system they had in place similar to the Zulu "Regiments", and Angron adapted some of their features for his own armies.

[Conn Eremon]

Why would he though? If he went up against them militarily speaking, I could see him adopting aspects of their organization that proved effective against him. But if he peacefully (and I would like to see how he does what Guilliman couldn't) integrates Illyrium, where does he get the idea of adopting their military terms? Why does he? What is wrong with the civilized ways of his country that he overwrites their structure with those of tribal people?

 

Not shooting holes into your idea, just asking questions the idea raises, and will need to believably answer to work. As I see it. If everyone goes "It just does, Cormac, so shut up," I will. :)

 

I'm not providing any potential answers myself because I can't think of any. At least, not any that don't end up 'Like Jonson, only different!'

 

Well . . . Maybe not. So, Konor and Gallan are still a thing, right? Konor is Angron's father and Gallan kills Konor to take over? So, instead of it happening while Angron is out conquering Illyrium, like Guilliman does, it happens after Angron gets them to assimilate. When the takeover happens, Angron is forced into exile among the tribes, where he contemplates retaking his land. He does so, using the aid of the tribes, whose unconventional styles, coupled with a freaking Primarch, proves devastating to those who stand in his way. Following his return, Angron keeps many of aspects of the tribes with him. Though he doesn't become tribal himself, he is still as civilized as Guilliman. He just has a healthier respect for the ancient ways.

 

Hm. What if his adoption thing begins here? He is a powerful leader, ruler of a lot. Maybe it is tradition for a father to give a man such as he their son, to be a son to these leaders. It creates family ties in a different way than traditional marriage hokey, and gives the leader strong sons to continue in his name. The tribes will follow Angron in his war to retake Macragge, but to seal the deal he must take the sons of the many warchiefs as his own.

 

Could also explain some of the later tension within the Legion. Angron calls them sons, but to the first sons that is not the way things are done. A post of mine a bit back about this issue went along the lines of "they weren't there when [insert pre-Discovery event here]" Well, this could be that event.

 

What do you think?

[Wade Garrett]

HOW DARE YOU QUESTION MY BRILLIANT IDEAS I HATE YOU FOREVER!

 

But no, if I appear to be building my houses of cards with too few

cards on the bottom please call me out on it.

 

First of all, we can agree that canon Guilliman is essentially Space Caesar, yes? Veni, vidi, vici also I built roads, aqueducts, schools, etc all of you are Romans now. That sort of thing.

 

While Angron of Maccrage is more Space Alexander, who was

was willing to adopt customs and practices of the locals if it smoothed his way to rule (having Persian subjects call him 'Great King' and instituting that crazy system of bowing they had).

 

Secondly, the Zulu system I mentioned was INCREDIBLY sophisticated for its time and place, so much so that there is a squabble among academics as to whether it evolved on its own or their great war chief Shaka Zulu copied it from the colonial European armies he had contact

with.

 

What I'm trying to say is that canon Rob is a guy who creates his own way of doing things and then tries to get everyone else to follow it, whereas Angron of Maccrage cheerfully borrows from everyone else and then blends it all together.

 

This was the right approach to take with the Hill Tribes, but has had mixed results elsewhere, thus this Battle King doesn't have a 500 world mini empire.

[Conn Eremon]

Okay, explaining it that way makes me feel more comfortable. Honestly, I keep forgetting the whole Space Alexander angle, so feel free to just go "Cormac. Cormac. Cormac. Danger zone!" Edit: DAMMIT, I meant Space Alexander.

 

Aside from that, what about the idea I put up there? I think it can still work, but do you like it enough to want to go with it, or a modified version of it?

 

Edit: I have six pages in Microsoft Word written up. Accumulated from the first four pages of this thread. This thing will be huge by the end of it.

[Ace Debonair]

Is the term "Millenials," canon EC 'Chapter' organizations pre-Primarch? I think so, but I'm not sure.

I would assume the Dragonslayer's Legion would organize themselves like a cross between canon EC's Millenials, led by Lord Commanders, and IH Clans, led by Chiefs, I believe. Commanders-in-Chief of the Thousand Clans?

Oooh, that's much cooler.

I'll be honest, I completely forgot about the canon EC when thinking about the Dragonslayer's EC.

I also had the idea overnight of using the medusan clan-companies like the Iron Hands, but you beat me to that too. Good man!

So it'd be Commander-in-Chief [MARINE NAME] of the [CLAN NAME] Millenial, with Millenials also referred to as Clan-Companies within the legion. Hmm. I think I need a second opinion on that, actually. I can't decide if that sounds good or just overly complicated.

After Jonson's reforms, when there's our equivalent of Chapters, some of the EC 'successors' will have clan companies and others will have Millenials still, for rule of cool.