Alternate Heresy Community Project

[Conn Eremon]

So, since I've renamed the XV Legion from Order of the Sword to Orders of the Sword, I've discovered an error in the gaelic translation. Apparently, the term Ordu means "order" as in a command. The whole phrase actually translates to "The sword order," as in the random imperative from the President of the United States directing all armed forces to be equipped with short swords for hand to hand combat is known as the "Sword Order."

 

I'm looking alternatives now. I'm thinking we can keep the English name as the Orders of the Sword, but the Irish translation need not be exact.

1. Knighthood of the Sword - Ridireacht an Claíomh

2. Brotherhood of the Sword - Bráithreachas an Claíomh (Brothers by association, like religion, warriors, not siblings. Alternatively, Bráithre an Claíomh for just "brothers")

3. Magic of the Sword - Draíocht an Claíomh (Druidic Art)

4. Soldiers of the Sword - Saighdiúirí an Claíomh (Apparently same word for archers, so this also means Archers of the Sword :D )

 

So which do you guys like? Personally, I like Brothers of the Sword, or Bráithre an Claíomh. Draíocht an Claíomh is my second choice.

 

To pronounce Bráithre an Claíomh, it is:

BRAW-her uh KLEE-uv

 

Interesting tidbit of information, that the Irish word for "brother," though not as a sibling, is incredibly similar in structure and pronunciation of the English word "brother." I am curious to know which one is etymologically first.

 

Edit: Ace, I was actually joking around with that title, what with the Commander-in-Chief being the military rank of the President of the United States. It'd be like . . . I'm not sure actually, but I suppose I could say it'd be like using the Prime Minister as the highest ranking officers of the Emperor's Children successors.

 

But I don't really mind it being used, I guess.

[Ace Debonair]

Edit: Ace, I was actually joking around with that title, what with the Commander-in-Chief being the military rank of the President of the United States. It'd be like . . . I'm not sure actually, but I suppose I could say it'd be like using the Prime Minister as the highest ranking officers of the Emperor's Children successors.

But I don't really mind it being used, I guess.

In that case, maybe Lord Commander [MARINE] of the [CLAN NAME] Millenial might be slightly better, if only for the sake of suspension of disbelief.

I really didn't know the President of the USA had an official military rank. Interesting stuff!

EDIT:

Brotherhood of the Sword gets my vote. Sounds pretty awesome.

That said, I'd be ok with Order of the Sword staying as it is - there's no reason the language on Caliban has to be identical old Irish, after all.

[Conn Eremon]

. . . That's true, it could still be Ordu. Well damn, now I'm not sure if I should go through with the renaming.

 

Well, I'll narrow the vote. Ordu (an) Claiomh, or Braithre an Claiomh.

 

One of the Presidential powers is that he is the Commander-in-Chief of the United States military. I could be wrong calling it a "rank," in the strictest sense of the word.

 

Edit: Finished going through the thread. Now I just need to organize what I got a bit, and then our thread will have an official summary. That's about 18 pages long. Bite me. I'll probably put it up in the second post, but I'll declare it here as well.

 

Edit the 2nd: 20 to 21 pages . . . >.>

[Conn Eremon]

And the post is up.

 

Linky:

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282390-alternate-heresy-community-project/?p=3504931

[Wade Garrett]

I notice that in the "Discovery of Primarchs" Timeline Jonson is listed as "The Palpatine".

 

Ummmm....

 

"Yes, yesss Adrah'Malek! Let the hatred FLOW through you!"

 

"Now, Lupercal, witness the POWAH of this FULLY OPERATIONAL BATTLE STATION!"

 

And now to edit in some signal to go with that noise.

 

Regarding the XIIIth Legion:

 

Barabbas's Legion is split into sixteen of Echelons, and only in the most rare circumstances do they ever split their forces into sections smaller than that. (16, 1 + 6 = 7, Poppa Nurgle's favorite number.)

 

As for the battle with Fulgrim, I had pictured the Dragonslayer heroically breaking through a bodyguard of Great Unclean Ones to confront...a pathetically withered husk of a man, whose overuse of Nurgle's gifts has rendered him ancient even beyond his gnarled aspect at the Siege of Terra.

 

"What's wrong, brother? Allow me to speculate...you came here to kill a monster, and instead you confront a dying man."

 

Fulgrim says something noble about pitying Roboute for what his treachery has turned him into, only to be Iinterrupted by the Tyrant's wheezing laughter as the Sic Transit Gloria unleashes its payload of virus bombs, engulfing them both in necrotizing pathogens.

 

Fulgrim is consumed and slain, but Roboute is reborn as a crowned skeleton with eyes of blazing green plaguefire.

 

Regarding the Imperial Palace:

 

Instead of being fortified by just Lorgar and Ferrus, what if its defenses were a collaborative effort by all nineteen Primarchs, after the Emperor is brought back from Ullanor? With each one putting his own personal stamp on a section of the fortifications as they met with the Lords of Terra to decide who would lead the Great Crusade from now on?

(Spoiler: It's Corax)

 

And instead of a Crusader Host, in addition to Fulgrim's Legion all of the Primarchs have committed a token force to guard their fallen father, the PRAETORIAN Host.

 

Regarding Calth:

 

As it stands, it seems too similar to Fenris (Traitor Primarch holds helpless world hostage, it blows up in his face. Possibly literally.)

 

Instead, I propose this. (Subject to the approval if Ace et al, of course.)

 

The "Blood Game" opens up with Bron inviting Angron to meet with him on a world within (catchy name for Angron's collection of interconnected worlds).

 

Angron travels down to the planet's surface and into an abattoir, where the Scars have impaled the entire populace of a Hive on its spire towers.

 

The White Scar tells Angron if he surrenders now, he can spare all Ultramar this fate.

 

Well. That goes rather differently than planned, with Angron gaining the upper hand in the ensuing throwdown before the Scars and Lions break up their dueling daddies a la "Savage Weapons".

 

Bron's ego has taken a slight hit, but on the plus side he's seen a weakness in Angron: Beserker rage may win fights but it's hell on grand strategy.

 

Jump ahead a year or two. The feinting, skirmishing, raiding, and general small scale actions both Primarchs have engaged in thus far have resulted in a deadlock, but the Scars have slaughtered quite a few minor worlds because the Lions can't be everywhere, with Bron leaving taunting messages for his brother at the massacre sites.

 

To counter, the Lions have begun evacuating populations and concentrating them in heavily defended systems like Calth, with its famed defense grid.

 

Throwing themselves at a world like Calth or Armatura would be almost certain destruction between the

defenses in place and the inevitable Lion counterattack.

 

But....

 

The Scars begin with a string of raids on nearby systems, ensuring the skies above Calth are choked with refugee fleets running for safety.

 

So choked that the soft hearted Celestial Lions will be unable to fire the defense grid when the real attack, led by Bron himself, drops out of the Warp.

 

Using the refugee ships as human shields, the Scars land significant forces on Calth and begin cracking open the great underground civil defense bunkers Angron has made of the cave systems.

 

Angron's retribution force crashes into the system...and Bron's sorcerers break the barrier between Hell and reality, leaving the inbound Lions and the already in place defense fleet to contend with Flamers, Horrors, Shriekers, and Lords of Change appearing en masse within their ships.

 

Planetside, Bron's forces finally brush aside the combat servitors, Dreadnaughts, and aged veterans to reach the heart of Calth's arcology...to find nothing but a note from Angron, telling the White Scar he already moved the civilians to the Lion vessels in orbit.

 

With the Scars in the depths of Calth's underground, the grid fires for the first and last time, targeting the system's star and causing it to go nova.

 

The Scars take significant losses extracting themselves, but the refugees Angron sought to spare with his ploy and his sons likewise take a beating because "Suddenly, daemons EVERYWHERE!"

 

Following Calth it's back to circling and feinting, with Bron having a newfound cautious respect for Angron as a strategist and Angron on guard because of the previously unknown capabilities and tactics the Scars utilized at Calth.

[Wade Garrett]

Regarding the Brides of the Emperor and other stuff:

 

The canon Grey Knights symbol is a sword and book. If the Brides are our GK stand in, I propose that their emblem be a sword and shield, which symbolizes the merger of the Silent Sisterhood and the warrior women societies within the Imperial Hounds during the Heresy.

 

I propose that many of these societies were all psyker groups, but more akin to the uxors from "Legion" than the lightning tossing army breakers of the Librarius.

 

I further propose that sometime after Ullanor, Magnus, Malcador, and others station contingents of the Silent Sisters within the Legions to monitor their Librarius, because you can be sure a Legion planning to misuse psyk and sorcery will NOT be able to make it's first misuse "Turning our embedded watchers into sock puppets" if said watchers are the Silent Sisters.

 

The Hounds were stuck with a large number of them because a superstitious Legion that babbles about Uppland and the Underverse while hauling around a bunch of psykers who don't even have the Librarius guidelines to hold them back set off all kinds of alarm bells for Magnus et al.

 

(The Sisters assigned to Legions like the Angels or Scars probably had tragic accidents.)

 

At first there is a great deal of tension between the two greats of extremely lethal females, but a great deal of that evaporates when

the Sisters prove crucial

in rescuing Lorgar at Boros and the fighting that follows.

 

1000heathens had suggested John Grammaticus as the one who organizes the Daemonhunters (if we're still having Malcador assassinated by Corax pre Heresy) so that might give us an excuse

to pull the Geno's uxors in as a source of ready recruits as well.

 

Which leads us to the Cabal. I'm not a fan, but at the same time I feel we should do more with them than "Sanguinus kills them all offscreen in a very humiliating fashion". We're better than that, right?

 

Regarding a somewhat off the wall idea I had:

 

Malcador is offed on Corax's order, and in the depths of the Petitioner's Quarter an old warrior has a package delivered to him.

 

Arik Taranis is startled to find that the Sigilite had kept tabs on him, and even more stunned that Malcador's message entrusts HIM with some vital information the Regent of Terra had uncovered.

 

Taranis lived through Old Night, the wars with the cognoscynths, and other horrors at the Emperor's side, he doesn't have to be convinced of the nightmates that will follow if those days come again. At the same time, he has his own grudge against the Emperor...

 

The Thunder Warrior arrays himself in his old armor and uses the codes Malcador provided to slip into the palace, only to be tripped up by some of the added security.

 

But neither mortal guards nor Custodes stop him from making his way to the Throne room, where he stands with a drawn sword in front of his former liege

lord until Fulgrim confronts him.

 

A duel follows, with Fulgrim taking him down and putting the spear to his throat. Arik reveals his idenity and how he got into the palace, and also turns over Malcador's evidence.

 

He further states while he will never fight for the Emperor again...he will fight for humanity.

 

Basically, I'm envisioning Arik, Grammaticus, and perhaps Oll taking Malcador's place in the Shadow War during the Heresy.

 

Also Taranis telling Fulgrim he is worthy of the title "Lightning Bearer" and passing on the same standard he carried at the head of the Thunder Warriors.

[Conn Eremon]

Fine, fine. Barabbas kills them all off-screen, because Wade wants the spotlight.

 

No, seriously. Cabal approaches Barabbas, for they feel that he and the Sons are pragmatic and willful enough to follow the Cabal's plans and kill humanity.

 

Barabbas listens. He ponders. He then tells the Cabal that upon Barbarus, he railed against the rule of his adoptive father. It was inefficient, wasteful and, by those sins, worthless. So he toppled it.

 

He speaks of when the Emperor arrived, he showed Barabbas an entire galaxy to be brought under one rule. So Barabbas conquered it for him. But time and time again, the Emperor revealed traits unbecoming of a galactic Emperor. The mistakes began to accumulate, and then the Emperor fell.

 

He talks of the son of the Emperor, a brother, who demands the right to rule and takes it, as true rulers must. The mistakes of the Emperor are washed away by the progress of the Warmaster. That he had become certain that he would follow his lead until the end.

 

Barabbas almost tells them that he believes them. That humanity is now doomed, for nothing can stand in the face of what they have shown him.

 

So they ask him to kneel before them, break his own will and become the willing servant of those who would use him to lead his people to extinction? For what? So that they, and other xenos breeds across the galaxy,can live in freedom over Humanity's grave?

 

Barabbas says none of it. His next words are a truth learned long ago, irrefutable and indomitable. "But . . . the end is only another beginning."

 

The Cabal are far from foolish. At the utterance of these words, they knew they had lost their prime choice for a pawn. They raise their guns and fire upon him, but, as has always been the case, the Sons fire first.

 

 

 

Or, y'know, something else that is actually well-written instead.

 

Edit: Taranis' story sounds alright, but why the bit of him fighting his way to the Throne to kill the Emperor? Considering he is carrying evidence of a plot to kill the Emperor to his protector.

 

Edit the 2nd: Realized your last post had a lot of edits too. Pretty much the whole thing gets my approval. We'll wait and see what others, especially Ace for the battle of Angron's Home Worlds, have to say about it.

[Wade Garrett]

Because I thought it was cool. And in my head, he hadn't decided on whether he was going to kill the Emperor, save the Emperor, or just check in on him and say hi.

 

Idea! What if instead of that poorly concieved notion, he's racing to the Throne to try and stop the sabotage attempt Corax's minions are making on it?

 

And as far as the Cabal goes, what I meant was that we should do more with them than "Alt Primarch X killed them all by being so awesome their heads exploded in his presence".

 

Possibly they make the struggle in the shadows a three way dance between agents of Taranis/Grammaticus, agents of the Traitor Legions, and the Cabal that wants to see both sides lose?

[Conn Eremon]

So . . . Pretty much leave the Cabal like in canon, sans Alpha Legion?

[Wade Garrett]

It just seems...spiteful? Childish? To take a faction that's a major player canonically and off them in a paragraph. And yes, it was my idea to do that. I have off days too, okay?

 

At the same time, this is the story of Jonson, Corax, Fulgrim, etc. Not the Cabal. Whereas in canon...

[Ace Debonair]

Wade's Calth is best Calth.

That whole Bron vs Angron thing is just made of awesome.

In that scenario I could even see Bron afterwards getting annoyed with himself for overplaying his hand - Angron will take a lot of strategic and tactical information from that battle, whereas all Bron's learned is that a Warrior-Philosopher is still a Warrior, and that Angron only ever gives you information that he wants you to have, up to and including his own 'weaknesses'.

[no I'm alpharius]

Sorry, work, life, etc. Ugh.

 

As the XX/XXI are found first, it seems only likely that they're at the very extremes of the crusade, but deliberately kept apart because of their childhood.

 

I'll dig out the armour colors and stuff and have a play with a small summary but I'm struggling with the XX part. XXI part I sent a brief summary in a PM to Cormac for his approval.

 

Err, sorry again.

[Wade Garrett]

I've been thinking about Angron's early life ever since Cormac quizzed me about it, particularly the whole Konnor/Gallan/Hill tribes thing.

 

I was finally able to dig up something claiming to be the original IA: Ultramarines on this site called "Red Elf", and I am somewhat pleased to see that canon Guilliman was actually able to win the loyalty of the Hill tribes by becoming a blood brother to their High Chief after defeating them in battle (as this means Angron of Maccrage isn't

totally a "Look how much more awesome my alt Primarch is than normal Guilliman!" because of his peaceful union of Maccrage with Illyrium.)

 

Thought:

In my Calth idea, Angron seems like a very deceitful, almost manipulative fellow.

 

What if he was raised to be that way by the ambitious politician Gallen, instead of the straightforward warrior king Konor?

 

With a conflict between him and his adoptive father because in spite of his raising he sees the people he commands as MORE than pawns to be moved around at a whim, and his insistent idealism partly due to being plagued by self doubt that in his heart of hearts he is nothing but a power hungry schemer like Gallen?

 

On the one hand this brings him closer to Lanista Corax, but this need not necessarily be a bad thing, with them looking at one another like canon Curze and Corax, each seeing the other as a twisted reflection of what might have been.

[Conn Eremon]

The idea of Gallan raising the Macraggian Primarch, with all the negative side-effects that entails, is something I explored in the Guilliman Heresy, with Guilliman seeing the Emperor as just another Gallan as time wears on.

 

Not saying "Original, do not steal,' just commenting.

 

You know, you don't need to be raised by Gallan to know how to think like him. Canon Guilliman, raised by Konor, wars against Gallan and defeats him. As Angron tries the more peaceful path than even canon Bobby, perhaps Angron's more a battle of the wits. He out-thinks and out-maneuvers, and he knows that in order to ensure the safety of all, he must be willing to sacrifice some. Though he recognizes this truth, and acts upon it, it weighs heavily on his soul.

[Wade Garrett]

I knew you had Rob as Gallan's son in the GH, and I didn't Iintend to reach into your refrigerator without asking permission. ;)

 

I just had the idea of Gallan sitting alone in his office, abandoned by his supporters and with all his plans in ruins, when Angron steps out of the shadows with a drawn dagger.

 

"Would it be strange if I admitted I have never been prouder of you, son?"

 

"There is nothing you could say that would disgust me more."

 

The dagger drives down...into the flinching Consul's desk, as Angron's soldiers step in to drag him away to stand trial for his crimes.

 

Angron refuses to become his father, but he will not slay him out of hand either.

[Conn Eremon]

What I mean is that, as Angron is not Guilliman, his trials can be the same while the lessons imparted different.

 

But I am not against Gallan getting another son.

[Wade Garrett]

I was also thinking that since Gallan already had some dealings with the Hill tribes (which is how he roused them against Konor) Angron's introduction to their ways could be his father sending him to be fostered with his ally Bardylis (canon Rob's blood brother) for a season.

 

Gallan intends that Angron gather information so that the tribes will be more easily crushed later, but he does not anticipate the boy forming true bonds with the Hill folk.

 

And this would explain Angron's distate for Jonson, his constant referral to him as "Jackal", and the copious amounts of bile he must choke down when lobbying for a peaceful solution to the Palatinate problem post Heresy.

 

Switching subjects:

What did you think of the idea that fortifying the Imperial Palace becomes a family affair with every Primarch pitching in?

 

I was imagining a scene during the Siege when a furious Kor Phaeron voxes the Sons about some key information regarding the Barabbas built section of the defenses that was somehow not passed along to the Colchisian Angels assigned to attack them.

 

"Hidden sally tunnels allowing for counterattacks from the rear, you say? Huh. I could have sworn we passed that VITAL PIECE OF INFORMATION along to you fellows. Talk to you later, fighting Executioners!" replies Battle Gaoler Grulgor of the Seventh Echelon, as he severs the link.

[Conn Eremon]

I was also thinking that since Gallan already had some dealings with the Hill tribes (which is how he roused them against Konor) Angron's introduction to their ways could be his father sending him to be fostered with his ally

 

He did? I thought it was "Hey, these people don't wanna conform. You want to be a Consul like us? Go conquer them. {beat} HAHAHA, while you were out conquering the primitives, I killed your FathOHGOD NOT THE FACE."

 

Bardylis (canon Rob's blood brother) for a season.

 

What? Seriously? I need to re-read my copy of the IA . . .

 

. . . and did. You're right, Gallan deals with the tribes to get them to attack. Bardylis is one of the chieftains that Roboute wins to his cause, naming him blood brother. If you go with my idea of the 'adopted sons' tradition beginning with Angron's dealings with the tribes, here is your perfect opening.

 

Gallan intends that Angron gather information so that the tribes will be more easily crushed later, but he does not anticipate the boy forming true bonds with the Hill folk.

 

And this would explain Angron's distate for Jonson, his constant referral to him as "Jackal", and the copious amounts of bile he must choke down when lobbying for a peaceful solution to the Palatinate problem post Heresy.

 

I had made Angron the guy who finally convinces what is left of the Imperium to go along with Jonson, but I had completely forgotten that I had instilled a bit of distaste in him from back when I first wrote Jonson. God, that just makes all this just beautiful.

 

Switching subjects:

What did you think of the idea that fortifying the Imperial Palace becomes a family affair with every Primarch pitching in?

 

I was imagining a scene during the Siege when a furious Kor Phaeron voxes the Sons about some key information regarding the Barabbas built section of the defenses that was somehow not passed along to the Colchisian Angels assigned to attack them.

 

"Hidden sally tunnels allowing for counterattacks from the rear, you say? Huh. I could have sworn we passed that VITAL PIECE OF INFORMATION along to you fellows. Talk to you later, fighting Executioners!" replies Battle Gaoler Grulgor of the Seventh Echelon, as he severs the link.

 

Family affair? Awesome. Every Primarch pitching in? Might be a bit of a stretch. Hell, only a third of the Primarchs even showed up to Ullanor in canon.

 

Maybe change it to "Many Primarchs laid their hands upon the Imperial Palace, shaping it to their indomitable wills. Of those who did not attend to it personally, many sent token forces to lend their own expertise."

 

If Fulgrim gets thrashed at Vilamur and retreats to Terra to ensure the Emperor's safety, I can see him using the time adding extra fortifications and straight wrecking those areas modified by now Traitor Primarchs/Legions. Now, that doesn't mean fully half of the Palace is bulldozed because of who built it, or modified it, but Fulgrim would make an attempt to mitigate the advantages they could get over it.

 

A furious Kor Phaeron voxes the Sons about some key information regarding the Barabbas built section of the defenses that was somehow not passed along to the Colchisian Angels assigned to attack them. The tunnels had been collapsed and Kor Phaeron had only just escaped the killzone at the tunnel mouths with his life, though many of his Host were not so fortunate.

 

"Collapsed, you say? Huh. I could have sworn we passed the VITAL PIECE OF INFORMATION along to you fellows that we had constructed those tunnels with the aid of the Headsman. I'm afraid I can't dally too long, we happen to be in a struggle against his sons at this very moment." replies Battle Gaoler Grulgor of the Seventh Echelon, as he severs the link.

[Wade Garrett]

I saw it more as Roboute had added some exits where the defenders could sally out and hit an attacking force from behind, but because he and his Legion still have the teensiest grudge about the Angels not giving them the full 411 on the "Stuck In The Warp" thing, they conveniently forget to mention that feature to the Sanguinary Host assigned to attack that particular part of the palace.

 

Either the defenders don't use the tunnels because they know Barabbas knows where the exits are, so no harm done, or Solar Tigers pop up and shoot some unsuspecting Angels in the back.

 

It's a risk Barabbus is willing to take.

[Conn Eremon]

Wasn't a shoot down, just re-using it as an example of what I would think the our Sentinels of Terra would try to accomplish during the time between the Heresy's start and Terra besieged.

 

Essentially try to negate any advantages the traitors could have for being among the Palace's fortifiers. Which they should only be moderately successful in themselves. Certain changes weren't documented, certain changes couldn't be adequately neutralized without adding further vulnerability, so forth and so forth.

 

So you get instances where the Executioners are cussing like mad because somehow the Sons have already made the walls, and in some cases the Solar Tigers just cheerfully gun down a bunch of Angels thinkin' they be sneaky.

[Wade Garrett]

Ah, I gotcha now.

 

I think.

 

And because I abhor short posts, a color quote from Lorgar Cleftjaw:

 

Man is a hunter, a killer. We build great cities, yet our nature is that of the wolf. The strong dominate the weak. Oh, we may call our leaders jarls, or kings, or generals, but the effect is the same. We create the pack, and the nature of the pack is to hunt and kill. War, therefore, becomes inevitable.

[Wade Garrett]

I'd also like to take a moment to talk about this "Night of the Axe" with Konrad and Angron.

 

I believe I had already posted about Angron's policy being to bypass independent minded human civilizations like the interex or the "False Imperium" in favor of claiming everything around them.

 

Such "contained" human polities can then be peacefully integrated into the Imperium via commerce and politics at the empire's leisure, even if it takes decades to do so.

 

This results in his Ultramar having some large independent chunks in it, and it goes sour on him when several of these encircled realms ally with one another and launch an anti Imperial crusade of their own that sees many worlds in Ultramar and the Crusade sectors of other Legions attacked.

 

In the wake of this disaster, Konrad Dominus and the Executioners are sent to chat with their errant brother.

 

The two Primarchs meet face to face when Angron answers a scream for help from one of the independent worlds in his Ultramar (which hadn't taken part in the...I almost want to call it the Jyhodh to differentiate it from the Crusade).

 

There he finds his brother covered in the ash of burning cities and their inhabitants. When Angron rages at him for this naked aggression, Konrad answers by snarling the names of those who died in a war that would have never happened if Angron had prosecuted the Crusade as he was meant too, telling him that cold corpses speak louder than abstract ideals.

 

Angron's response is to strike Konrad across the face with the flat of his axe Humility. This blow from a brother plunges Konrad into a nightmare vision of the Imperium burning as the Legions turn on one another, and he attacks Angron with all the feral savagery another Konrad once turned on another Rogal Dorn.

 

Angron is not as taken unaware as the Praetorian of Terra was in another galaxy, and fights back as the Lions and Executioners go for each others throats amid the embers of a dying world.

 

But for all Angron's skill, when Konrad's sanity returns he is standing over a bleeding monarch...but the remnants of the planetary defenders emerged from their hiding places to tip the balance of the larger battle in favor of the Lions.

 

Beaten but unbowed, Angron tells Konrad he will not let fear of what might be compromise who he is, and the Emperor's Red Right Hand returns to his ship the survivors of that horrible night negotiate a union with Maccrage.

 

Brother Heinrich, your thoughts?

 

I was trying to keep the same feel of the original NoW, with Angron's leniency with the people vindicated but at the same time the reason they throw themselves into the Imperium is because of Dominus's assault.

 

Plus the whole "Win the duel, lose the battle" aspect. Except I think the story that gets out is that the Executioner beat the weakling to a bloody pulp then walked away unscathed, with Angron forbidding his Legion to speak of those events (which means they don't set the record straight) and thus Barabbus, Jonson, etc. despise him even more.

[Wade Garrett]

Meanwhile, on the Alternate Bolter and Chainsword:

 

"Angron was totally holding back and trying to disable Konrad. If he'd been seriously trying to kill him, he would have."

 

"Oh yeah? Well, Konrad was fighting all crazy and stuff. If he'd been in his right mind, Angron wouldn't have gotten two swings in!"

 

"Maybe Angron was really Erebus in disguise? Or Konrad was?"

 

"Don't be silly. They both were. EREBUS IS ALL AROUND YOU!"

 

"How can a Non Astartes force make a difference in a fight between Legions? That was a stupid idea by that author."

[Conn Eremon]

Perhaps neither side speak of it? The thing that Konrad gets the most from that fight is his vision, which I don't see him blabbering about. So the Night of the Axe (It was a working title, please feel free to cone up with a better name), like the Night of the Wolf, is kept largely between them.

 

Later, you can have Lorgar talk to Konrad about it (for deliciousness, how about when Angron speaks in favor of Jonson) in the same way the real Lorgar speaks to the real Angron.

 

Or, if you want to show that Angron, while virtuous and has high ideals, is in the wrong (because in the grimdarkness of :cuss youhammer 40k, you don't get to be a good guy and walk away happy), you can keep it as Lorgar speaking to Angron.

[Wade Garrett]

Well, I did consider something like "The Executioner's Song", but that really made no sense, plus it was the night both Primarchs used their axes against a brother for the first time.

 

As for the whole thing being a secret...with two Legions plus the survivors of (Shrike? Terra Nova?) witnessing it word would get out even if the two Primarch's don't speak of it.

 

As for who's right and who's wrong....

 

Konrad was correct about the fact the fact that if Angron had conquered the planets instead of surrounding them and "letting them ripen" the loss would on both sides would have been less than what happened in the Jyhodh.

 

BUT that doesn't make him a good guy for dropping onto another "independent" planet and rolling over it with his Legion.

 

Or, as ADB once put it, "In the grim darkness of the far future everyone is wrong in different ways".

 

And depending on how serious and far reaching we want this counter attack to be, it could be what makes Barabbas throw in with Corax as an alternative to those who see an inabilty to make the necessary sacrifices for humanity to survive as a virtue.