Alternate Heresy Community Project

[Conn Eremon]

Well, not everything needs to be mutual. Lorgar could respect Lupercal's love for freedom in spite of Lupercal's friendship with Barbedor, and even though Lupercal himself might not reciprocate the same respect.

[Wade Garrett]

Fair enough.

 

And now I'm wondering if I'm not having Angron tread in Fulgrim's territory with the whole "self doubt" thing.

 

Perhaps instead he should be brash and cocky..."Don't tell me that it can't be done, that there is no other way! There is always another way, a different option, as long as you believe in yourself and your friends!"

 

Whereupon he gets smacked in the goolies by the universe because he lives in the Heresy, not Naruto. :p

[Ace Debonair]

Lupercal's probably got enough in common with both Lorgar and Leman to work well with either of them, to be honest.

Of course, he's also bright enough not to try and work with both at the same time, if only to avoid the unrelenting snark and bickering that would ensue.

I just figured that more of the other Primarchs would choose to befriend Lorgar over Leman, and decided the two pirate-inspired guys should be on good terms.

That said, being pals with Lorgar would open the scene for some truly fantastic dialogue between the two once the Atrocity rolls around.

Bron's respect for Lorgar's efforts to create peace can totally be a one-way thing. If anything, it's probably more admiration for the goal than the man himself.

And now, to finish editing my last post.

[Conn Eremon]

No wonder Jonson doesn't take sides. Poor forever alone Primarch. :p

 

He does need more respect. You might not like the guy, but he is among their greatest leaders.

 

But I can always use my own Primarchs for that, if necessary.

[Wade Garrett]

I don't mind having Angron look up to Jonson a bit, something like canon Rob and Lion.

 

Barabbas respects him as well, but I can't see either of them being bros with anyone, each other included.

 

Also, I kinda feel like Sanguinus should be more well regarded by his brothers if he's going to be a major Traitor player during the Heresy.

 

On the other hand, his views are diametrically opposed to Cleftjaw's and I see he and Roboute's problem as "There can't be two Prom Queens, and you can have my tiara and bouquet when you pry them from my cold dead hands."

[Conn Eremon]

Problem with Sanguinius is that he's unrepentant. I was a God among mere mortals, dammit. But, he is damn charismatic. Hard not to like him, even if you don't agree with him.

 

We can go the Fear to Tread route, and have him fear becoming another empty plinth everyone averts their eyes from. So he bottles it all up, unleashing his true nature only when Corax takes over and becomes more amenable to his plans. Leading to a "S-sanguinius? This isn't you, brother!" "You don't know me! *Angelslap*" Heresy. Literally, Primarchs are utterly caught off guard that Sanguinius, the Angel himself, is a traitor.

 

Considering the Night of the Axes and much later post-Heresy event, I think I'd rather have Konrad and Jonson be the bros, rather than Angron. Konrad going Executioner on Angron gets Jonson to go, y'know what, Corax? I get it. All yours. And later, Angron has to swallow bile in getting everyone to follow Jonson.

 

We need to know more about the AdMech, but when I finish my next Liber Adtartes piece I want to focus on the Ullanor moot next.

[Wade Garrett]

If I remember correctly, the canon Mechanicum threw in with Horus because he promised to lift all those restrictions on AI, studying xenos tech, and devices that use the Warp the Emperor put on them.

 

I really don't see why Warmaster Corax would change that.

 

Unless you fellows want something like Lanista putting MORE restrictions on the Ad Mech because there are quite enough semi independent powers running around in MY Dad's Imperium, causing the Fabricator General and his mad science faction to back Perturabo and Anubis while the conservative "There are things man was not meant to know" bunch side with the Traitors.

 

Perhaps our "Dark Mechanicum" becomes something like the Alpha Legion post Heresy, a network of insurgent cells that blow up universities, assassinate scientists, nuke data archives, and only tolerate the Chaos Legions because they're the best shot at stopping those fools on Mars before they rebuild the Iron Men, wake up the Enslaver plague, or do some other stupid thing to wipe out mankind.

 

With the "Dark" label a derogatory term hung on them by Mars because they would prefer to let fear keep mankind in the darkness of superstition and ignorance.

 

Oh, new idea! If we don't want our 40k era Imperium to be "Golden" Age of Technology level due to actually using things like the scientific method for ten thousand years, instead of a civil war on Mars, during the Siege of Terra the conservative faction blows up the planet.

 

All that know how and resources are gone, and it's only due to having the more flexible minded majority of the Ad Mech hierarchy on their side that the Imperium is able to recover from such a devastating blow.

[Conn Eremon]

Might be a nice way to differentiate between universes, the latter alternative. In canon, Horus gets the AdMech to his side because freedom. Isn't it just better when I'm in control? Look at all that you can do when you're not being held down under dad's totally unnecessary restrictions. Guilliman Heresy was unable to get the AdMech to join either side, but ends up going full Chaos in response to the Imperium's post-Heresy response of "Twenty year war, you decided you wanted to be neutral? No, you're our slaves now. Put on the chains or we open fire." 

 

Corax, solidifying his control, cracks down on some of the more independent factions, of which the Priesthood of Mars factors in at the highest.The Techpriest's grow resentful, and so when Fulgrim starts yelling Mel Gibson quotes and putting on blue facepaint, because it's the only movie that survives twenty eight thousand years, they start swinging their way. Sure, the loyalists suffer some horrendous losses, but look at all these new toys they get.

 

Jonson'll probably have a big presence of Mechanicum, too. Not as a set-up to another GH Khanate, but as a rationalization of how great a threat he's meant to be. 

[Wade Garrett]

What do you think of having the Dark Mech be the "No! You fools! Your tinkering has transgressed into the Omnissiah's domain!" faction of the Tech Priests who become Luddite Al Quaeda after the Heresy?

 

They'd still be hanging with the traitors, but their fortresses in the Eye have huge Gellar fields at their hearts and it's not nearly as rosy a relationship as canon Abaddon has with his pals on Ghalmek and elsewhere.

 

It does, however, explain why the Traitors are at the same tech level ten thousand years later, because they got all the "Show me the STC template for this thing or prepare to suck plasma" Tech priests.

 

As for Mars...blowing it up would be a bit detrimental to Terra not being a dead world, so instead when the reactionary insurgency breaks out on the Red Planet, it ends with the Archive (position that locks up very nasty DAoT superweapons so they aren't used) triggering a Von Neumann device from the vaults.

 

For the uniformed, a VN device is just nanomachines that break things down into more nanomachines. And don't stop. It's often described as a grey goo apocalypse. The red planet is now a lifeless metal sphere.

 

The Dark Mech points to this incident as "See? See how dangerous all this forbidden stuff is?" while the majority is going "If only we'd actually studied that weapon instead of locking it in a box, maybe we would have known how to turn the nanobots off before they ate everything."

[Conn Eremon]

I always feel like I come off as snide for bringing up the Guilliman Heresy, but planetary Gellar Fields being built by a traitor Mechanicum force that is more like the canon Mechanicum than anything else happens to be our explanation for the White Scars being able to headquarter themselves around and within the Maelstrom (though stealing Eldar and Imperial Webway routes helps as well).

 

Once again, not saying this as a "original, do not steal" statement. But I know many people tend to prefer going routes unexplored or avoid appearing like a rip-off of something else (which again, I'm not saying is the case), so I'm mentioning it is all. If we continue down this route, I won't mind it a bit (and I doubt Olisredan will).

 

Besides, there's that age-old phrase "There's nothing new under the sun" to consider.

[Wade Garrett]

Well, I considered having them be a secretive, almost Inquisition like organization acts to retard innovation from the shadows, but the guys in the Eye have to get their toys from somewhere, no?

[Conn Eremon]

Stealing it from the Imperium is always on option. Daemonforges another. "Warp did it" always works.

 

 

Might be interesting to explore a Chaos force that will hunt you down and erase all signs of your existence, usually by burning down everywhere or everyone you have at some point crossed paths with, within an AU radius, for reinventing the toaster. Doesn't mean they can't provide for the traitors, just that they might take severe offense when you return something because it's "too old."

[Wade Garrett]

I was seeing them as something like the Brotherhood of Steel from the Fallout games and something like the Alpha Legion (back when the Alphas were special forces guys who trained armies of guerilla and terrorists instead of being everybody everywhere.)

 

They wouldn't call themselves "The Dark Mechanicum"...I'd almost like to name their Post Heresy organization something inocuous like "Agentes en Rebus" (Those Who Are Active In Matters) with them using "A little knowledge is a wonderful thing" as a codephrase to identify one another. Kind of like the Cognitae. Actually, "Cognitae" might be a more appropriate title for this faction.

 

Because...they like thinking and people call Techpriests "Cogboys" and...stuff. I may be overthinking this.

 

Anyway, their goals are to recover and secure the STC technology of the Ancients so those lunatics in the Order of the Dragon can't taint it with their *gasp* innovations, and sabotage the tech heresies of the main branch ("People of Baal, I present my new design for a water purifier that will enable our children to have fresh, clean water even in this radioactive hellhoOH MY MACHINE GOD THALLAX COMBAT SERVITORS ARE MURDERING EVERYONE!")

 

Before and during the Heresy they'd get on well with the Thirteenth Legion, although that might sour once the Sons go full

wizard grandpa, and I can see them working with the Astral Wolves post Heresy because organizing tech thrall uprisings is always fun.

 

Now, the Minotaurs, who are either compulsively modifying their equipment or smashing it because ALL I WANT IS A BATTLE GAUNTLET THAT SHOOTS A PLASMA BLAST AT WHATEVER I PUNCH WITH IT WHY WON'T IT WORK ARRRRGHHH!...they won't like them. At all.

 

Although they could also be one of the more grey Chaos factions.

 

"No, you fool! Don't meddle with that!"

 

"Bah! Your kind are like the dinosaurs, clinging to the decaying ideals of traitors and heretics! With a push of a button I will OH NO I WOKE UP THE FLAYED ONES THIS WAS A HORRIBLE IDEA AHHHH!"

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Must admit I will right more after my essays are finished, but an idea I've had is to try and take elements from Horus and set's battles and the Epic of Gilgamesh into the Anubis's death/disappearance, either in the scouring or at the seige, say during the seige he keeps encountering/duelling with one of the traitor primarchs, and then either it ends with them killing each other near the end of the seige, or during the scouring with more encounters happening.
Just not sure if having the Onyx prince falling at Terra fits in with Prosperoian Buddhism/Zorathostrianism religion becoming  a major religion.
Love the idea of a reactionary dark mechanicum. Could another idea be that instead of nanobots, iron men are unleashed? 

[Wade Garrett]

I was going with nanomachines because it was the only way I could think of to take Mars (and all the knowledge it holds) off the board without the kind of devastating kerblooie that would wreck Terra too.

 

Iron Men...on one hand, you'd need a heck of a lot of them to wreck the Red Planet that thoroughly. On the other hand, if it was Men of Iron who destroyed the accumulated knowledge of the Martian archives it gives a reason for Perturabo and the Ad Mech to accede to Jonson's "No more Iron Men! Or things that are close to Iron Men!" post Heresy.

[Conn Eremon]

Iron Men show promise, but that might be delving into areas better left obscure, like the lost Legions.

 

Destroying Mars by innovation (newly invented nanotech) could explain the Cognitae's behavior.

[Wade Garrett]

Thought:

 

The Cognitae claim Mars was wiped out by the Mechanicum deploying a newly created prototype superweapon to quell the guerilla war that went out of control.

 

The Mechanicum say it was due to the reactionaries cracking open ye forbidden vault of DAoT superweapons they didn't actually understand how to operate because they were desperate.

 

And the truth is the Red Corsairs did it. ;)

[Wade Garrett]

If we can talk about Prospero's Wiccan-Jedi-Buddhism for a second...perhaps we could tie it in to the "Enumerations" the canon Thousand Sons use to control their emotions when psyking? "The Enumerations" is less of a pain to type than Zoroastrian-Hindu-Zen-Daoism, for starters.

 

Tenets being something like self denial, not being unduly influenced by emotion, and the belief that the Materium and Immaterium alike are part of the Great Illusion that can be pierced only by study and meditation?

 

And also the 40k Imperial Army having Shaolin Monk Chaplains that punch Orkz to death with their bare hands.

 

Unless Rune Priest feels this in no way, shape or form fits with his vision of Anubis's Prospero.

 

And if I can jump ahead in the timeline a bit, I think we should have an Vraks/Armageddon style War of Faith between the Catherics and the Lectio Divinatus on the Shrine World of Ullanor.

 

(Both see it as a holy place, because I think the Catherics would probably canonize Emps as a saint post Heresy. Which would of course tweak the Lectio's nose greatly, THE GOD EMPEROR IS GOD!)

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

To be fair that's what I was going for, as I have no idea where the idea of the prosperonean religion/philosophy came from/who suggested it, but the idea I had after it was introduced that as Prospero was always a scholar society, and so it is easy to imagine the initial colonists bringing as much of the old philosophies and religions with them (That and the regions, philosophy and ideologies of the ancient near east are fascinating and it branches the prosperoneans from more then just egypt in space).
Plus it gives opportunities for the fortresses and warships of the Solar Tigers including zen garden style features for meditation and reflection.

A thought I just had, cannon Magnus communicated with the emperor before he was found,  so I'm thinking it could be interesting to the Ensharaddon and the Ghoast fox communicate pre discovery? I'm thinking it could be an interesting point in that whilst both believe in the use of the warp in a controlled and structured way, they each see flaws in the different ways each goes about it.

[Conn Eremon]

Is your not-Vulkan a psyker? I kind of assumed that he, like Barabbas, could not utilize such talents himself, but saw the merits in their utility nonetheless (though for vastly different goals in mind).

 

As far as I know, canon Vulkan shows no talents, but then they are all supposed to have some form of latent power, so I can see a Prosperonan upbringing lending Vulkan minor talent.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

That's what I was thinking, he wouldn't be anywhere near as powerful as cannon mangus, but growing up on Prospero would have allowed to him to use what abilities he had as it seem they all had some to an extent.

[Wade Garrett]

Hathor Ma'at uses the toad style. It's very strong, and immune to any weapon. When used properly, it's almost invincible.

 

Sorry, couldn't resist. (Okay, I'm not really sorry). I doubt anyone wants to see the Solar Tigers go full wuxia, but them having a couple of Cults (or whatever their unique sub Legion formation is) that focus on inner harmony via animal emulating fighting styles (Mantis Warriors, anyone?) could be neat.

[Conn Eremon]

I was going to mention at some point that the Mantis Warriors would make a great Solar Tigers successor.

 

There's a bit in A Thousand Sons where Magnus breaks something valuable, and everyone learns magic from looking at it from different perspectives. I think I can merge that with an idea I had been thinking about recently.

 

So, Anubis names his Legion after the Prosperonan Tigers, an apex predator he skins as a gift for the Emperor. There has been no mention of such animals on Prospero that I have ever seen, and I'm pretty sure Ridcully just went "He found a tiger, because I say Prospero has tigers." Which is totally cool and all, but I'm going to run with the idea that Prospero doesn't have tigers. Or bears. Or flamingos. Sloths. Elephants. Deer. Alligators. Komodo Dragons. 

 

Sure, Prospero has creatures of its own, but not those things. But Prospero is a vast collection of knowledge from way back when. It's been mentioned that this collection could be the source of Prospero's spiritual beliefs that spread offworld in the coming centuries. I'd been thinking of using that knowledge too, but for something different (they can of course work together. I'm not saying "No, go with this idea").

 

Genetics. The genetic heritage of Old Earth. Anubis is the Primarch of Life in our universe. The Apothecariarch. So he grants the varied life of now extinct Earth, which as far as he knows may be a dead world by now, to Prospero. 

 

So there are no tigers on Prospero.

 

Until the Ensarhaddon brings them back to life.

 

 

Could be a nice play on the whole "There are no wolves on Fenris" quote. Couple that with the highly active scholar society of Prospero, and you get a lot of latent psykers studying the habits of animals that haven't lived for millennia, but are before them now. The knowledge they glean, and the applications of said knowledge, can be extensive.

 

 

Plus:

"Dear God, the Psychneuin! Everyone, run for your lives!" the Prosperonan villager shrieks, rather girlishly considering his actual gender.

 

"Nah bro, s'cool," Anubis tries to nonchalantly calm the hysterical villager, pointing to a different part of the skies. "Dude. Rocs."

 

Go to wikipedia and read up on the impact that invasive, non-native species have on environments. The results, while perhaps negligible to us, are pretty horrific.

[Wade Garrett]

Wikipedia my foot. Here in the South we have kudzu and fire ants, so you're preaching to the choir.

 

And then Anubis was John Hammond?

[Conn Eremon]

Pfft.

 

 

Marty Stouffer.

 

But in all seriousness, does the idea have merit? What do you have to say, Ridcully?