Alternate Heresy Community Project

[Conn Eremon]

Yeah, that sums up the original way it was.

 

New/Current/Still being worked on way is:

 

Corax, Dorn and Ferrus are being very naughty boys in the Palatinate.

 

Perturabo and Konrad all go out there to talk them down.

 

Leman and Lorgar are supposed to join up with them, but that never happens.

 

There's surprise treachery, then Dorn decides to be all heroic and ruin the trap, and the Executioners and Iron Hoplites escape annihilation.

 

That's really actually much more similar than I thought. The main distinction is in the very beginning. Is Corax playing at having lost control over these two berserk Legions? Is he pretending to be "with" Konrad and Perturabo at first, only to surprise backstab? Or is he actively leading the way with these two berserk Legions, allowing Perturabo and Konrad to get close for a parlay, only to surprise backstab?

[Adra'Melek]

What's the point of the shattering? The massacre in canon is partly to symbolise the betrayal and partly to heavily weaken the loyalists, allowing Horus to reach Terra. If they were equal numbers it would have been harder to get there. At least that's how I saw it.

 

For this version it feels more like a civil war rather than a betrayal. So less calculated and more by 'accident' (with Sanguinius as the architect perhaps). The 'bad guys' are the ones that turned to chaos to strengthen their hand, rather than those that engined a betrayal.

 

If this is right, and that was just a feeling, it would work 'better' if the Dorn and Ferrus do what they do and Coraax et al go to 'bring them to heel'. Something happens to ignite a fight between the 5, somebody challenging Corax's response (with Sanguinius' whispers in ears). This then escalates and soon everyone is fighting everyone throughout the galaxy with there only being loosely described two sides. Corax tries to coordinate thing but it's chaotic, with various legions going off to do their own thing and settle their own scores. The war is a stalemate rather than an unstoppable rampage as in canon.

 

Perhaps this fits with the post coup galaxy where there isn't that overall co-ordination.

 

In this case the Shattering doesn't have to be a trap or result in more mass slaughter (unless it is felt there is a need for an Isstvan V). It's the spark, the thing that fixes in iron that there will be civil war. Once Corax's side turns to chaos to gain the upper hand he can't allow the Emperor to recover.

 

Er...well that was a lot of waffle. Let me know if anything makes sense and/or is agreeable. I end to sleep.

[Wade Garrett]

Really, the whole thing sounds like a call noctus cormix should make, what with Corax being his baby.

[Conn Eremon]

So, take away Corax planning Vilamus and make it a true event of handling the VII and X that got out of hand, five Legions tearing into each other?

 

Edit: Agreed, Wade.

[Wade Garrett]

New question:

 

With Cthonia now Primarchless, does that mean Lorgar is now the first Primarch found?

[Conn Eremon]

This was the new Discovery Order I slapped togwther in light of that. It was in the summaries, but I think it was just skimmed over because nobody made a comment.

 

DISCOVERY ORDER OF THE PRIMARCHS

1) =][= REDACTED =][=

2) Lorgar 'Cleftjaw'

3) Lanista Corax / Ferrus Mordrax

4) Fulgrim Dragonslayer

5) Angron

6) Principio Etiamnus

7) Jonson the Palatine

8) Adra'Melek

9) Perturabo the Hypaspistai

10) Anubis the Ensarhaddon

11) Leman Barbedor

12) Rogal Dorn the Haunted

13) Konrad Dominus

14) Magnus the Red-Maned King

15) Roboute Barabbas

16) Sanguinius

17) =][= REDACTED =][=

18) Lasartine Bron

19) Lupercal

 

Considering a big part of what made Horus the favored, the Warmaster, was how much time he spent with the Emperor before any other Primarch. I thought it appropriate that, with the way we have the first batch up to Corax described, that the first found be a Missing Primarch.

 

Heck, Cthonia might even have been his home world. Though that will never be substantiated.

 

Edit: Maybe move Fulgrim up one?

[Wade Garrett]

Something I've been thinking about for a while is how I'd represent my Legions on the tabletop.

 

Thunor's using the Salamanders as his Infernal Guard, and Cormac said the First Legion would be the Tyrant's Legion list.

 

So, what about the Imperial Hounds, Celestial Lions, Sons of Barabbas, and Minotaurs?

 

I've pondered and pondered...and I at least have an answer for the Imperial Hounds.

 

The Death Guard Legion List.

 

My reasoning is as follows:

 

The killing cold, monster haunted iceflows of Fenris bred a far different Primarch than the deserts of Colchis.

 

The Cleftjaw's psyker gift turned inward, fortifying its wielder from external threats instead of reaching out for prophecies, and the harsh struggle to survive yielded not a fey scholar, but a giant as tough as the rocky roots of Asaheim, with calloused hands and shoulders broad enough to bear the burdens of his people.

 

He won his wars against the sea reavers by armoring himself and his followers in heavy plate to trump the mail and shieldwall of their foes...but it came at a price.

 

Where a mail coat can be quickly slipped off, the armor of Lorgar's warriors was a certain death by drowning should they fall overboard, something that nurtured a grim fatalism and unflinching acceptance of mortality in their ranks.

 

It is an attitude Lorgar brought to his Legion. Others may be more savage, more skilled, tactical in their approaches and cunning in their stratagems.

 

But when the Seventeenth set themselves on a course of action, there is little that can divert the relentless tread of their march.

 

They are known to posses a higher than average amount of both Mark III Armor and Terminator warplate, which are ideal for the boarding actions and space hulk purges that constitute the bulk of their battles.

 

As a void warrior, the Cleftjaw favors similarly straightforward tactics, positioning his vessels to trade punishment with the enemy until they capitulate or are destroyed.

 

When he takes to field himself, the Emperor's Hound wields a relic halberd that some say was the template for the guardian spears of the Adeptus Custodes, but instead of the underslung bolter wielded by the Emperor's praetorians, Stormqueller has a lightweight plasma cannon wedded to its killing edge.

[Conn Eremon]

Sounds like some logical development. I heavily approve of the flavor it lends to the Seventeenth and their shepherd lord.

[Wade Garrett]

It adds a dimension to his rivalry with Barbedor as well (I think).

 

If we were talking about boxing instead of void war...I see Leman as being like Muhammad Ali, he's got slick moves, he's fast, he gets in your head. Lorgar is more in the vein of Rocky Marciano, who'd just wade in with left hooks and overhand rights and rely on his head being harder than yours.

 

And Lorgar thinks Leman is an underhanded backstabber who doesn't have the guts for a stand up fight, and Leman thinks Lorgar can't spell "strategy" and is incapable of grasping tactics more complex than "Take a beating like a man and try to give some back."

 

Both are right, and both are wrong. The Hounds may favor simplicity, but that doesn't make them stupid, and the Corsairs may be raiders, but they're also an Astartes Legion.

[Conn Eremon]

That fits with my image of Leman. I actually imagine Leman himself preferring light, non-powered armor. Like leather armor. It allows him to utilize his great speed and strength unhindered, and in the close quarters of ship to ship fighting he is quite simply as deadly as they come. I see the Red Corsairs having armor, and being in it whenever in battle. But outside of battle? Not even when in parade dress. Some think it's too informal, a lack of respect for the Legionary equivalent to a uniform. The Red Corsairs just don't find it necessary. You don't hold a gun unless you intend to shoot it. You don't put on armor unless you intend to get shot at. So, in their case, I see them willingly replacing a lot of their older armour for marks that allow for more freedom of movement. Very few Terminator suits, but what they do have are pretty much solely Tartaros suits.

 

It's interesting, because when you think of heavily armored behemoths, you think of Angron, Vulkan, Ferrus Manus. Not Death Guard Lorgar. But it does fit, as we have it so far.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Finally stripped the model I'm using so should have some pics of the first Solar Tiger over the weekend.

[Adra'Melek]

@Ridcully, awesome.

[Conn Eremon]

Indeed, awesome. Looking forward to seeing the Solar Tigers given life.

 

I'll be sure to have links to both of your guys' WIP threads in your Legion summaries. I will also try and include any Space Marine Painter images people have, for some visual effect.

[Wade Garrett]

Well, according to Index Astartes

the canon Seventeenth's "relentless advance is a terrifying sight" and their "conviction that they alone can save mankind has seen them marching towards certain death,

yet unwilling to take a single step back".

 

As for the chem munitions, rad weapons, and phosphex...

 

"Fascinating! I had no idea people killed by such things are rendered more dead than those slain by bolt rounds or chainblades!"

The Cleftjaw to Fulgrim Dragonslayer, when the later tried to rebuke him for using such 'dishonorable' tools.

 

More seriously, the Imperial Heralds seem to have possesed more than their far share of Destroyer Squads (the better to burn your holy books with).

 

Lorgar simply took skills that were already there, and repurposed them to fit his preferred style of an inexorable advance instead of lightning shock attacks practiced by the "Iconoclasts".

 

Unsaid is that the Hounds's grinding approach also offers an enemy more time to come to their senses and surrender than the Heralds' s zeal driven charges, although those who resist to the end are purged just as thoroughly.

[Conn Eremon]

The Destroyer squads kind of clashes with their personality, as I recall it. The kind of attitude that hates swords because you can only ever use it for war? Wouldn't Destroyer squads and their gear fall under the "swords" category?

 

Or perhaps they have no such conviction where xenos are concerned? Xenoclast?

[Wade Garrett]

"Peace is the natural state of mankind, war is the exception. The ultimate object of all modern war is the return to a state of peace. Therefore, the more vigorously wars are prosecuted, the better it is for humanity. Sharp wars are brief."

-Abraham Lincoln, General Order

No. 100, 'The Lieber Code'

 

The Hounds don't see Destroyer weapons as any more or less evil than the usual Astartes killing tools.

 

Not to mention that since they fight the majority of their wars in the void, a lot of the issues about poisoning planets for generations are neatly side stepped.

[Conn Eremon]

The Hounds don't see Destroyer weapons as any more or less evil than the usual Astartes killing tools.

Which they think of as pretty evil, right?

 

I mean, didn't you say they repurpose equipment as weapons because they don't like things that are just weapons?

[Wade Garrett]

Oh, wait!

 

Cormac, I think you're mixing up the Hounds with the Sons of Barabbas.

 

They prefer equipment that fufill a variety of roles because of Roboute's obsession with efficiency.

 

I think the example I used was that a sword kills, a shovel digs holes, and instead of wasting scarce resources by giving his warriors both, the XIII would order it's artisans to create an entrenching tool that can both kill and dig, and then issue it to everybody so that whether they need to dig a ditch or hack off a head they're covered.

[Conn Eremon]

Huh. Alright, fair enough. :D

[Wade Garrett]

It's my take on the fanon that Roboute GUILLIMAN ruined the Space Marines by getting rid of all their awesome specialist units in favor of generic Tactical Squads who were mediocre at everything.

[Conn Eremon]

When you go from a hundred thousand to a single thousand, you need fewer specialists and more jacks of all trade.

[Wade Garrett]

You know that. I know that. But a vocal segment of the fandom apparently disagrees.

[Adra'Melek]

Nathaniel Garro 'the Cursed'

 

Nathaniel Garro, born in Albia on Terra became a Marine in the XIV Legion and he quickly became a leading figure in the renamed Dusk Raiders. After their reunion with their Primarch, Adra'Melek introduced new traditions into the Legion; the most important was the Prometheqn Rite. A secret process required to ascend the elite 8th circle, testing a candidate's mental and physical endurance to the limit. Many die in the process, a sacrifice Melek demands to ensure only the strong pass through. These few go on to form the leadership and elite units of the Legion's expedition fleets. Garro, took part in the Promethean rite, and became one of the few failed but did not die. These marines become somewhat outcast and join the Vorlaren Haap, looked down on by the rest of the Legion for having no honour. They fight in the shadows and are used as suicide assassination squads. If they survive their mission against the odds they may attempt the Rite once again. Garro has succeeded many times where others have failed a and redeemed himself time and time again. But each time he attempts the Promethean Rite, he fails...and survives. He now leads the Vorlaren Haap, never giving up, and bearing the disfiguring scars on this failed attempted to rise in the Legion.

 

Basically he's a Vigilator and the Vorlaren Haap (a bit meh on the name) are made up of reconnaissance and seekers. Black armour, no legion markings. Perhaps a different marking. This harks back to the original Peklenc, who took the souls of sinners and sent them to kill corrupt governance.

[Wade Garrett]

Hmmm...is Ace using the Brotherhood of the Phoenix for his Emperor's Children?

 

Phoenixes would incinerate themselves and then rise from the ashes of their own unmaking, which seems like the idea you're going for with Garro and his men.

[Conn Eremon]

Interesting. Garro was quite the glorified figure before Melek's discovery. Given a title and armor from the Emperor himself.

 

That is quite a fall.

 

I see him resenting the tactics and role he is forced to use, and eventually lead. Constantly trying to bring it more in line of what he feels a Space Marine force should be, but only ever receive orders to assassinate. To sabotage.

 

Edit: I don't think so Wade. I think, per the discussion about the Legion symbol, that he is not keeping it with his Legion.