Alternate Heresy Community Project

[Wade Garrett]

Hmmm...I don't want to step on Bron's toes by having the Sons be "The Wizard Legion", but I do like the idea that Barabbas was a supporter of the Librarius program and am putting a bit in my section of him on Olympia where he has Typhon and his other Librarians turn Damnekos into a puppet ruler in the most literal sense.

 

Also...

"An old power is rising in the galaxy, Anubis. We cannot hope to stand against it...that strength is beyond men, Astartes, or even Primarchs. But if we join with it and guide it..."

[Conn Eremon]

My initial thoughts actually had you two with swapped Gods.

 

Well, I can see both working towards the Librarius program, like the Khan and Magnus in canon. Perhaps have Barabbas more interested in magicks that are more to Nurgle's liking. Corrosive, debilitating, eroding, demoralizing.

[Ace Debonair]

Hmmm...I don't want to step on Bron's toes by having the Sons be "The Wizard Legion", but I do like the idea that Barabbas was a supporter of the Librarius program and am putting a bit in my section of him on Olympia where he has Typhon and his other Librarians turn Damnekos into a puppet ruler in the most literal sense.

Also...

"An old power is rising in the galaxy, Anubis. We cannot hope to stand against it...that strength is beyond men, Astartes, or even Primarchs. But if we join with it and guide it..."

Use as much sorcery as you like.

The mentality behind the two legions is different, even when their methods are similar.

Bron does what he does to try and create galactic peace under the red team's banner, even if that means killing the hell out of a planet that refuses to join him.

He wants more power so he can destroy any resistance utterly, and deliberately creates a terrifying reputation to scare planets into submission. Casting terrifying spells and summoning monsters from the very depths of nightmare to do his dirty work is only going to boost his already terrifying reputation.

Eventually it becomes Bron's weapon of choice, alongside the usual fast attack and aggressive methods the White Scars have always had.

Roboute would probably use magic rather more sparingly, since it's a bit intangible and unpredictable, and the last thing Rob wants is stuff not going according to plan for any reason.

My initial thoughts actually had you two with swapped Gods.

Well, I can see both working towards the Librarius program, like the Khan and Magnus in canon. Perhaps have Barabbas more interested in magicks that are more to Nurgle's liking. Corrosive, debilitating, eroding, demoralizing.

This has my approval - Magnus and Bron are probably pretty good friends before the Atrocity anyway.

I could see Roboute's interest being more in 'taming' magic than searching for new and powerful magics, which would be Magnus and Bron's shared interest. Of course Bron's going to go too far in his quest for power, and Magnus is going to be the more level-headed of the pair this time.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

I'm thinking a possible spark for the "Heresy" if we go with the Emperor already being on life support, could be the possibility of a cure being found? Say Magnus has a vision and/or Anubis has been working on a device/improvement to the golden throne that would heal the emperor, arch traitor doesn't want that, and ambushes the one/s with the potential cure, hoping to kill them and then blame it on xenos. Only problem is they survive, or possibly in a twist, maul the arch traitors legion, and alert the rest of the imperium, forcing the other legions to declare their loyalty.

[Conn Eremon]

Original idea is to have Fulgrim discover that Corax is sabotaging their attempts to heal the Emperor. That could go alongside it. Magnus seeks to rebuild the Emperor's mind and spirit, Anubis seeks to heal his body, Fulgrim seeks to maintain the life-maintaining Throne. Together, their efforts show no progress, no sign of recovery. Someone has a breakthrough, let's say Anubis since it was your idea. It is sure to work and does, albeit slowly. Word spreads that the Emperor may return, and Corax's agents gets a bit sloppy in his next sabotage attempt, trying for something more damaging.

[Wade Garrett]

To Barabbas, the Warp is just another tool in his arsenal. Something like when canon Magnus told Mortarion the powers of a psyker were like Manreaper and Lantern, it's HOW they are wielded that matters. And it isn't as if psykers/sorcery are uncommon on Barbarus.

 

True, he can't use it, but he can't pilot a Titan either. Doesn't mean he won't incorporate Titans into his battle plans if they're available.

 

And I imagine his Librarians would focus on powers that enhance the capabilities of their battle brothers. It fits with his ideals that everyone is a little cog in a big machine, and will lead them to the embrace of the Grandfather quite nicely.

[Ace Debonair]

Cool. So they both utilise magic but there's still a lot of differences between Bron's boys and Rob's mob.

 

I totally approve of Anubis having a breakthrough that might actually heal the Emperor, and that being enough to worry Corax into acting rashly.

[Wade Garrett]

I'm toying with the idea their Legion "cult" unit post Heresy provides several benefits everything grouped together with it (something like Typhus turning all your cultists into zombies).

 

With a drawback that if the grumpy old bearded guy gets killed (or the units wander out of his range of influence) the stuff he's been blessing/buffing starts to rot into big piles of tumorous sludge.

 

Which is Chaos's way of being ironic about Rob's micromanagement tendencies and his belief the great herd of ordinary stupid people can't survive without the elevation of the exceptional few.

[Ace Debonair]

I dunno what I'd do with the Scars post heresy, in terms of cult units.

 

The Thousand Sons have the Rubric, but that's not something I'd seek to emulate. I don't think the whole 'slow and purposeful' thing fits well with Bron's legion.

 

Perhaps an assault squad with some kind of sorcerous weapons? Something akin to Daemon weapons, only not as powerful and not as likely to self-destruct your squad.

 

It'd be easy enough to also add Aspiring Sorcerers to squads instead of Champions, with the bonus of being able to cast spells and the penalty of exploding when they die or something like that.

 

 

 

I could see Bron and maybe Adra'Melek being the ones to sideline Magnus. Bron would try to sway the Ghost-Fox to Corax's side, and when Magnus refuses, Adra'Melek's Infernal Legion and the White Scars launch an ambush and put a beating on the Order of the Sword.

Sound any good?

[Adra'Melek]

Anybody fancy putting up a rough timeline (doesn't need times)? I'm getting a little confused with all the suggestions.

[Ace Debonair]

I'm not sure we've figured out any sort of time scale for any of this yet.

Right now, it all just sort of happens.

I'll admit this thread can be wonderfully confusing though, since we're trying to do everything at once and in no real order.

[Wade Garrett]

Been thinking about Barabbas's fall.

 

Sanguinus shows him a way in which he can get to wherever our Isstvan equivalent is at the same time as the other Team Red Legions, but via Warp "pfft, linear time?" his trip will be longer so he has more time to plan everything out.

 

The Angel neglects to mention exactly HOW much longer...and at the Drop Site Massacre the Thirteenth come pouring off their ruined, space hulk like ships, their armor patched togather and rusted, skin wrinkled to leather and hair whitened by century after century of drifting within the Warp's tides...

[Conn Eremon]

Interesting, fo sho.

 

Would that mean there is some animosity here? Sanguinius pretty much backstabbered him. Could be one of the set ups for the post Heresy Legion Wars within the Warp.

[Wade Garrett]

I think I already mentioned Sanguinus seeing Roboute as a potential rival for the Imperium.

 

My understanding is Sang wants to sit in the big chair because "It's good to be the God-King." Roboute wants the seat so he can organize EVERYTHING into his ideal vision of how it should be, and then everyone will live happy productive lives full of rainbows and unicorns. (I exaggerate slightly for comedic effect.)

 

We've got a conflict of ideals, with an option of Sang never intended Roboute to emerge from the Warp but Poppa Nurgle had other ideas. You better believe this will go south post heresy.

[Wade Garrett]

A few more things:

 

I imagine the White Scars Tzeencht cult unit as being the terrifying mixture of a Destroyer squads, Warp Talons, and Horrors/Flamers of Tzeencht.

 

Then again, I also see Bron's Legion as having the canon Death Guard's "We need phosphex, radioactive shells and grenades, chem-munitions, and a copy of the Geneva Convention to use as toilet paper" approach. With added sorcery.

 

Back to Barabbas:

Would anyone like to volunteer their loyal Primarch to be taken captive by him so he can relate his tale (in a manner not at all inspired by "Rime of the Ancient Mariner") in an attempt to get them to see why Chaos is inevitable and they should switch sides?

 

With a possible jailbreak by someone like Omegon or (alternate universe has sense of humor) Curze?

 

And this is jumping way ahead, but regarding him offing Fulgrim:

Roboute lures him into a battle and then has his fleet virus bomb the planet before Fulgrim can throw a single strike at him.

 

Among the black goop left by the Life Eater, a crowned skeleton astride a steed of bones lifts a tarnished silver spear from the bubbling corruption.

 

Even after the success of his perfectly plotted ascension to Daemon Princedom, Roboute shows no joy, merely a grim and terrible resolve.

[Wade Garrett]

Did someone ask for a timeline?

Here's what I recall from the previous thread.

 

THE ROAD SO FAR

(begins to play some Kansas)

 

The Emperor is almost killed by the Orkiest Ork what ever Orked on Ullanor, and interred within the Golden Throne.

 

Lanista Corax becomes Warmaster to keep the Great Crusade going, Fulgrim remains on Terra to keep the throne working.

 

One of Corax's men is caught trying to sabotage the Throne, but before this can be dealt with news comes in that the Legions of Dorn and Ferrous are running amuck in Jonson's part of the galaxy.

 

Corax sends everyone still listening to his orders to reign in the two crazy guys.

 

Surprise! It's a Drop Site Massacre!

 

The Imperial Hounds and two other Legions are shattered, but the damage is less than it could have been because Rogal Dorn and his sons attack the traitors, rescuing Perturabo in the process.

 

Dorn and Ferrous die fighting each other.

 

Lupercal and his Astral Wolves are left to keep Jonson out of the fight, everyone else heads for Terra.

 

At some point before the Siege, the Red Corsairs blow up Fenris and are in turn mauled by the vengeful Imperial Hounds.

 

Siege of Terra, Corax dies, possibly Konrad Curze also, Traitors run away to the Eye of Terror.

 

Jonson's independent empire rejoins the wider Imperium, his price is that he gets to push certain reforms and adjustments on the other Loyalists.

[Conn Eremon]

Magnus and Anubis are prime suspects for the 'captured' bit. If we want Konrad to swoop in for some alternate reality humor, Anubis would be a prime choice for some added hilarity.

 

Since Perturabo is present at the Shattering (as opposed to the Massacre? Still clearly labels the event, and it's the moment where Imperial Peace is 'shattered'), should he and his be one of the Shattered Legions? Perhaps like the canon Raven Guard, he is still alive and he wants his Legion to remain in the fight. Maybe remove the genetic tampering to recuperate losses and the fixation on Raven Guard style tactics.

 

If the Iron Hoplites are added among the Shattered alongside Imperial Hounds, perhaps the other potential Shattered are the Solar Tigers, War Hounds  or the Order of the Sword. Automatically, I think the Solar Tigers are pretty ripe for it, but that might be a bit much. War Hounds might be interesting, considering they could be the "Raven Guard" type that rapidly tries to boost its own numbers, only by way of rushing recruits through five hundred worlds instead of arcane genetech.

 

I was thinking about the Legion of the Damned. I know that Thunor's_Hammer wanted them to be loyalist Infernal Guard, but I think they might fit better as Blackened Fists. As a potential rumor as to their nature.

 

Y'know what just occurred to me? Magnus' Order of the Sword has both Luther and Ahriman. That's just interesting.

[Wade Garrett]

I remember Heathens talking about the Iron Hoplites fighting alongside Mechanicum constructs due to their depleted numbers.

 

Perhaps post Shattering the Lord of Iron accelerates the process and ..hmmm. For some reason I'm picturing an enormous war robot, like Incarnadine from TFH, asking Pert "Does this unit have a soul?"

 

No idea where to go with that, though. None that are thematically correct, any way.

 

Contemplative Edit:

 

Actually, Pert would just say "Yes" and roll on. After all, canon Incarnadine was inducted into the Word Bearers for the fierceness of its warrior spirit.

 

Perhaps post Heresy, Jonson sees Perturano's Robot Hordes as too close to the Iron Men of old and demands their destruction, with the Shield of Mankind retorting that they are as much his sons as any Legionary, and Jonson can go boil his head.

 

A compromise is reached, where Pert seals his sleeping machine sons within one of his special mazes.

 

After vanishing into the Eye of Terror/sacrificing himself on the Sword of Sacrilege/whatever, the Hoplites discover their father hid relics all over the galaxy, and if they find all of them they will be able to navigate the Labyrinth and awaken an army of the IV Legion's greatest heroes.

 

What do you fellows think? Insufficient grimdark?

 

Edit the Second:

Now I'm sad there will never be a fight between the Minotaur Ferrous and the Hoplite in a maze. Any chance of a "Night of the Wolf" event between them Pre Heresy?

[Ace Debonair]

A few more things:

I imagine the White Scars Tzeencht cult unit as being the terrifying mixture of a Destroyer squads, Warp Talons, and Horrors/Flamers of Tzeencht.

Then again, I also see Bron's Legion as having the canon Death Guard's "We need phosphex, radioactive shells and grenades, chem-munitions, and a copy of the Geneva Convention to use as toilet paper" approach. With added sorcery.

This sounds positively lethal, and therefore exactly the sort of thing Bron would want in his army.

You've pretty much nailed their approach to warfare. Any weapon that does a ton of damage or leaves horrific psychological scarring on anyone unfortunate enough to see it being used on a human being is a weapon the White Scars have room for.

And this is jumping way ahead, but regarding him offing Fulgrim:

Roboute lures him into a battle and then has his fleet virus bomb the planet before Fulgrim can throw a single strike at him.

Among the black goop left by the Life Eater, a crowned skeleton astride a steed of bones lifts a tarnished silver spear from the bubbling corruption.

Even after the success of his perfectly plotted ascension to Daemon Princedom, Roboute shows no joy, merely a grim and terrible resolve.

I like it. If there's some suggestion that the skeleton in question might not actually be Fulgrim, so much the better, if only to fuel wild rumours and speculation across the Imperium that the Dragonslayer might yet return one day.

EDIT: I also wholeheartedly approve of having Konrad save Anubis from Roboute's crazy tortures. It's just twisted enough to be brilliant!

[Wade Garrett]

The skeletal rider was actually supposed to be Barabbas's daemon form.

 

He takes the spear out of either some twisted respect for Fulgrim or because "Hey. The weapon that killed Corax, whom I hated. Cool beans!"

 

Why is he a rider? I'm contemplating that Barbarus is the anti Medusa, instead of breeding tech obsessed "The flesh is weak" types, it inculates a "When the going gets tough, the tough get going!" approach and an appreciation for low tech, simple solutions.

 

And thus the Sons of Barabbas use gene mod giant mules as transports/mounts, kind of like the Death Riders of Krieg.

[Adra'Melek]

Re: Legion of the Damned, I think they would fit pretty well with the Blackened Fists. Those guys seem pretty well damned but staying loyal at the end.

[Wade Garrett]

So...can we confirm War Hounds, Imperial Hounds, and Iron Hoplites as the Shattered Legions? (It doesn't get the Massacre name because thanks to Dorn Loyalist casualties aren't as severe?)

 

The problem is those three seem the type to tell Corax to pound sand, though....

 

Ah-hah! Corax double bluffs them! He announces that as Warmaster he intends to wipe Dorn and Ferrous out, and Angron interjects himself into the proceedings, stating the two rogue Primarchs will be brought back to Terra alive to stand trial if at all possible?

 

Suggested Forces Involved In Shattering:

 

The Bait:

Blackened Fists

Minotaurs

 

The Suckers:

Iron Hoplites

Imperial Hounds

War Hounds

 

The Backstabbers:

Chainsworn

Sons of Barabbas

White Scars

Red Corsairs

 

Sanguinus and his Celestial Angels, Lupercal and Alpharius are off doing other things elsewhere. Lupercal specifically is dispersing his Legion to tear Jonson's fiefdom down for FREEEEEDOM!

 

That still leaves the question of how Barabbas managed to snag Anubis, though. Perhaps the Solar Tigers send a Retribution Fleet to (Planet Shattering Occurs On) and run smack into the full Thirteenth.

 

Also, requesting we take the idea of Perpetual Anubis out behind the barn and shoot it with fulgrite bullets.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Spoilers sweetie :P (I'm an archaeologist, I can say that :p ) 
Could it be that the thirteenth launch an attack on Prospero under orders from the warmaster to take out the developed cure? Prospero is not destroyed, and whilst taking loses, the legion is not shattered. However, Anubis is captured/spirited away, possibly with a high casualty rate in his officer cadre?
I'm guessing that Anubis/Vulkun is a perpetual, I would say he would need to be as to not be killed before Curze can save him.

[Brother Heinrich]

So...can we confirm War Hounds, Imperial Hounds, and Iron Hoplites as the Shattered Legions? (It doesn't get the Massacre name because thanks to Dorn Loyalist casualties aren't as severe?)

 

The problem is those three seem the type to tell Corax to pound sand, though....

 

Ah-hah! Corax double bluffs them! He announces that as Warmaster he intends to wipe Dorn and Ferrous out, and Angron interjects himself into the proceedings, stating the two rogue Primarchs will be brought back to Terra alive to stand trial if at all possible?

 

Suggested Forces Involved In Shattering:

 

The Bait:

Blackened Fists

Minotaurs

 

The Suckers:

Iron Hoplites

Imperial Hounds

War Hounds

 

The Backstabbers:

Chainsworn

Sons of Barabbas

White Scars

Red Corsairs

 

Sanguinus and his Celestial Angels, Lupercal and Alpharius are off doing other things elsewhere. Lupercal specifically is dispersing his Legion to tear Jonson's fiefdom down for FREEEEEDOM!

 

That still leaves the question of how Barabbas managed to snag Anubis, though. Perhaps the Solar Tigers send a Retribution Fleet to (Planet Shattering Occurs On) and run smack into the full Thirteenth.

 

Also, requesting we take the idea of Perpetual Anubis out behind the barn and shoot it with fulgrite bullets.

 

Alarming how often Konrad and the Executioners get left out lol.

[no I'm alpharius]

Suggestion: XX and XXI are both perceived as unpredictable. Corax tampered with orders to send them both to Signus Prime, where their emnity should spark off a civil war. Sanguinus decides it needs more daemons, so the two legions are faced with all four colours of chaos. Carnage ensues, complicated by the brothers deep-seated hatred.

 

Some elements of the legions team up, others can't, some turn, others fight to the death. 

 

I'd personally prefer something different to one turns, the other stays loyal, but will try to work around it. Given Alpharius has a rather aggressive lieutenant with a distinctive topknot, perhaps his men can succumb to Chaos? 

 

After the battle, the different factions realise they've been played and rush back to Earth... But I guess the warp is an unpredictable thing to rush back through.One faction could bump into Anubis along the way then reveal their true colours ...