Alternate Heresy Community Project

[Noctus Cornix]

Well, does it have to be a Chainsworn? The Astral Wolves, Red Corsairs, and Celestial Angels are all possible sources for the Warmaster to arise from.

 

And yes, the Nucerian Legion is going to be tricky...we either need original characters or for Noctus and myself to divvy up Skane, Delvarus, Kargos, Esca,

Tagore, etc.

 

It doesn't HAVE to be Chainsworn, but I would certainly enjoy building up the Protege of a Primarch, Heir to the Carrion King and Tyrant Prince no less. However if someone else has an idea I'm all ears and will bow to the will of the council.

 

As far as what he would be, I'd build this boy from the ground up. It would be HIGHLY unlikely that he'll be a named individual from the preexisting lore.

[Wade Garrett]

I'd be interested to see what you come up with, I'm just saying there's no need for us to say "X must Y because canon!"

 

Which is not to say that if someone has a good idea that dovetails with canon it should be thrown aside sight unseen because we are unique special snowflakes making our unique and special Alt Heresy.

[Conn Eremon]

Like my Red Corsairs and First Legion, you gotta make up characters. Neither Iron Hands or Raven Guard have revealed notable Terrans, and there are no known Nucerians. All known Iron Hands or Raven Guard are under Ace's purview, within his White Scars and Astral Wolves, if he wants them to be.

 

As for having someone else be the Warmaster, rather than a Chainsworn, I can deal. Sanguinius is a prime choice.

 

You mentioned Red Corsairs, though, so I'll run with that possibility. I could see a Fleetmaster, Ferryman type of character. Binds the other Legions to him, loads them up and unleashes them upon the Imperium. He'd be the terror of the void, distant and terrible, unknown. The dark man whose shadow unleashes a swarm of death, destruction.

 

Ace can contemplate a potential Warmaster of his own, we'll see what we go with.

 

Edit: Unless we do go with a Chainsworn. Whatever works.

[Wade Garrett]

Continuing to stumble drunkenly from subject to subject:

 

We can agree that Leman and the Corsairs maul the Imperial Hounds at the Boros Gate, yes?

 

Also, we should pick a planet for the Shattering to take place on. Given that off the top of my head I have no idea where Chog...Mundus is, are there any named areas in the vicinity of Jonson's empire that get anyone else's synapses crackling?

[Noctus Cornix]

I think that one thing we should keep within our alternate universe that is the same within canon is the lack of Primarchs. I feel that Primarchs should no longer play a key role in the universe once the heresy has ultimately ended. Even those that still yet live and have ascended to daemonhood, their mark on the Mortal galaxy is insignificant in the grandeur of it all. This is the Long War, continued on by those who put their blood, sweat, tears, and brothers into the grinder. The era of the Primarchs is at an end and no longer will the Legions bare the Corpse-God's sons upon their back. This is their war now and soon it will be their Imperium.

[Conn Eremon]

Mundus Planus, and it is nearby the Maelstrom. Pretty much any world in that vicinity could work.

 

Hell, we could use Badab.

 

 

I agree with noctus cornix. The Warmaster should be a Marine Commander.

[Wade Garrett]

If it's near the Maelstrom...is Vilamus an option? Perhaps with Sanguinus causing its star to flare as Huron's magi did in Soul Hunter, rendering the loyalists blind and deaf before the murder stroke?

 

Of course, when Dorn becomes a DOUBLE traitor the lack of effective communication hampers the Traitors just as badly.

 

Edit:

Barabbas isn't close to a candidate for Warmaster, but he will not be pulling a Lorgar and sitting at home for the next ten thousand years.

 

After all, he turned to Nurgle and daemonhood because the Imperium's fall was inevitable. Every century it lurches on is one more twist of the blade in his guts, telling him that maybe he was wrong, maybe if he'd kept faith...the Imperium has to fall! It is much more tolerable than admitting he made a mistake!

[Conn Eremon]

Pulling a Lorgar, or a Mortarion, or a Magnus, or a Fulgrim, or a Perturabo or an Angron? Because by and large, there are little to no Primarch activity among the Traitor Legions in canon.

[Wade Garrett]

First War for Armageddon?

 

Magnus attacking the Fang?

 

Magnus using the Spear of Russ in an attempt to resurrect his Legion?

 

Mortarion making a misguided attempt to defect back to the Imperium only to be sucker punched by Draigo?

 

Huh. Never realized Mags was the most pro-active Daemon Primarch.

[Conn Eremon]

Hence my concession from 'none' to 'little to none.' :)

[Noctus Cornix]

 

Mortarion making a misguided attempt to defect back to the Imperium only to be sucker punched by Draigo?

 

 

Wait... he did what?

[Wade Garrett]

Matt Ward has his explanation for how that fight went down, and I have mine. :p

 

More seriously, I'm not saying that every thousand years like clockwork Roboute comes storming out of the Eye for his annual "Get banished back to the Warp by the Grey Knights" but I think he should have a couple of major actions under his (daemonic skeleton) belt.

[Conn Eremon]

No prob, bro.

[Wade Garrett]

And now I want to take our Imperial Hounds derived Valkyrie SoB knockoffs and make THEM the awesome Daemon hunting get all the cool toys faction, with the...not the an actual Grey Knights group as such, but...

 

Perhaps a faction of "Black Templars" initially comprised of Astartes from the Legions that sided with Corax, but supplemented with failures, cowards, the remnants of renegade and Traitor chapters, Cursed Foundings, and so on, who stain their armor black, remove all insigna, and hurl themselves into forlorn hopes, last stands, and every other brand of suicide mission you wouldn't throw away regular Marines on?

 

Mixing a little of the Deathwatch Blackshields, a little Black Legion, a little of the fan theory origins about the Grey Knights, and of course a little of the best Dorn successor, God Emperor worship and all. Call'em the Black Watch.

 

Rumors that the Knight Captain of the Brides of the Emperor bathed in Black Watch blood to become immune to Daemon Prince of Tzeencht Bron's sorcery so she could get close enough to teleport in a squad of Brides in Terminator armor and send him back to the Warp are probably untrue.

 

Perhap the Black Watch's genesis involves Konrad giving the Crusader Host on Terra the chance to prove their loyalty and find some measure of redemption, as opposed to summary execution by his axe?

[Ace Debonair]

Ace can contemplate a potential Warmaster of his own, we'll see what we go with.

The thought occurs:

Canon Corax did crazy genetic experiments to rebuild his legion.

Maybe Lanista does crazy genetic experiments to build a suitable successor for when he ascends into the realm of the Gods.

We're gonna have to pretty much avoid having Bron and Leman work together pre-heresy if you steal the Phalanx.

I can't see Bron having a short memory for vengeance!

Also the Black Watch sound pretty darn cool.

[Conn Eremon]

Ace, I posted that summary faster than I had intended to. Broken cat appeared in my yard, in a very bad way and in pain, so I had to take care of it.

 

Remainder, shortened further:

I'd need to rewrite the bit where Lupercal is attacked, since that vessel is not to be used for offenses. Instead, Lupercal stumbles upon it. He recognizes the giant vessel from Bron's stories and orders an attack and boarding. Then, it goes the way the attack was described.

 

Afterwards, Lupercal tells Bron the tale of Leman's discovery.

 

Bron confronts Leman, Phalanx nowhere in sight, going all LEMAN. MAH SHIP.

 

Leman's response: Hey, what ship are you referring to? Oh, that thing Lupercal attacked? Nah, man. Space Hulk. Cleansed it of Orks and all. It's gone now, though. Got blown up by Eldar or something. Never heard of a Fail Angst. You can tell by all these thumbs I'm twiddling.

 

 

I am still using Phalanx as a placeholder name. Bron would probably call it something different, and Leman would rename it all over again.

 

That said, I am all for animosity between Bron and Leman over this.

[Wade Garrett]

Hmmm...what if instead of Heart of the Pack blowing up, Leman makes a gift of it to Bron after the Shattering (he's just acquired a large chunk of Lorgar's fleet and his own kingship. Surely he can afford to be generous?) putting the animosity between them to rest...for now.

 

Returning to the Black Watch for a second, like the Templars, they have numbers above what Jonson decreed was acceptable for a Marine Horde, and they have no homeworld, instead being spread throughout the galaxy on their quest for atonement.

 

They are seconded to the Inquisition, but unlike canon Deathwatch this is so the Inquisitors can make sure they court martyrdom instead of, say, hanging around the heart of the Badab system doing nothing.

 

And if the glorious deaths various Inquisitors help them find advance the personal goals of said Inquisitors....well. Sometimes the Emperor works things out like that.

 

They do, however, have a Mob Master as Jonson's strictures dictate. A Contemptor Dreadnaught, all in black, who remembers things as they once were, before the fall.

 

Nicodemus, the former Warden of Olympia. What's that? I can't prove Nic was a Terran born member of the Thirteenth? Well, can you prove he wasn't? All right then.

 

Plus Nicodemus, Barabbas, it's Biblical, it fits.

[Wade Garrett]

And now I'm considering having the Hounds entire Terminator contingent be female.

 

My reasons are as follows:

 

1. We know regular humans can use modified Terminator armor.

 

2. The strength, speed, endurance and durability of geneforged Astartes don't count for as much in TDA, just like driving a Land Raider (except for that one variant that is as nimble as regular power armor. And it's rare.)

 

3. Operating Terminator armor is a bit different than the regular kind. Surely an argument can be made for having a force trained exclusively to use TDA, instead of one that has fought for centuries in normal power armor and has to adjust?

 

4. POST HERESY ALL TERMINATOR SISTERS OF BATTLE. SUCK IT, DEATHWING!

 

5. It's an interesting paralell to Lorgar and semi mortal Terminator armored Kor Phaeron in canon?

[Conn Eremon]

I'm starting to rethink my dislike for differently named Marine groups. First Legion Cohorts, Emperor's Children Millenials, War Hound Echelons, Imperial Hound Battlefleets, Order of the Sword Orders, so forth.

 

That said, if we could agree on a term, I'd be all for that.

 

Other than that, I like the idea of a THEY MUST NEVER KNOW Niconought, though iffy on him running the show. In the beginning, no prob. But eventually, the inevitable drain of being a Dreadnought takes its toll. Eventually, he'd be unfit for command. Bjorn, for instance, is only woken once a century to tell a story.

[Wulfkry]

sorry to side track... but what is his TDA you speak of that is as nimble as regular power armor??!?!?

[Wade Garrett]

Tartaros pattern Terninator armor. According to the Forge World website, it's as mobile as Mark IV power armor while being as durable as the more common Indomitus Terminator armor. Because Forge World.

 

Cormac:

I've studied on it, and you're correct. Nicodemus should be the Black Watch's Bjorn equivalent:

 

Most of the time he's kept in stasis aboard their flagship, but when they gather in force he's awakened to tell them the tales of treachery and redemption.

 

Then I started wondering why a group devoted to dying for the Enperor ASAP would keep this Heresy era guy around for forever, but I recalled a bit from a book I read about one of the early founders of the Christian church, whose name escapes me at the moment, but I do remember the line that he "endured the slow martyrdom of a hard life, long lived." Which is enough of an explanation for me.

 

For their 40k Cohort Master (Praetor?) I'm thinking Sarpedon. An alternate Sarpedon, who responded to the "revelation" that his original Echelon's real Primarch was the cursed traitor Rogal Dorn (said revelation delivered by a scheming Celestial Angel as part of a Machiavellian plot) with "YOU WON'T TAKE ANGRON AWAY FROM ME!" then purging the Angel and the rest of the Echelon singlehandedly and Taking the Black in lieu of suicide. (Ghost of Nostromo Dorn: "Yeah. That...totally proved you aren't descended from me.")

 

I say the Black Watch has a First Legion Cohort organization because I was imagining that Jonson put something in that his Legion (and later their successors) would provide all the Chaplains to keep the disgraced failures as spiritually pure as possible until they succeed in getting themselves killed.

 

Which in practice turns into them having a dual command structure of Inquistion/Jonson descended Chaplains, which becomes a "duel" command structure on occasion.

[Wade Garrett]

Let's really get crazy (yes, crazier than Sisters of Battle in Terminator armor.)

 

Canon 40k and the Dornian Heresy end up with the Ecclesiarchy. The Guilliman Heresy has the Imperial Truth and the Adeptus Agnostica.

 

What if we have, say, four major religions vying for influence in the Imperium post Heresy, I suggest the Catheric Church, the Lectio Divinatus, Generic Space Buddhism from Prospero and the Solar Tigers, and...I have an idea for Generic Space Judaism from the Imperial Hounds but I don't want to hog the everything for my Legions.

 

Thoughts?

[Conn Eremon]

That's . . . Actually an interesting concept. What if the fourth was a new religion building in power off of some of the older ones? Like a splinter cult gaining way too much momentum.

[Aqui]

Let's really get crazy (yes, crazier than Sisters of Battle in Terminator armor.)

I haven't had chance to digest everything that has been posted here, but is there/will there be an equivalent version of the Grey Knights in this alternate Heresy? If not, why not have the Sisters take on the role of Daemon hunting, Terminator armour wearing...Psychics? A complete 180 from their conventional counterparts

If not, I'll just crawl back into me crevice and carry on lurking...

[Conn Eremon]

You know, 17 pages before people forget the whole "Post only in the Discussion" thread really isn't bad at all. :p

 

It's an idea, though. I don't want to say yes because I would like us to explore other options for a Grey Knight force. Magnus' own Order(s) could do it, for instance. Or the Imperial Hounds face down the Wolves of Hell.