Debski Bowden Lorgar and the like....

[TheAurelian]

I have been HH fan for about two years now and have read a decent number of books so far. I have recently come to favor books written by Aaron Dembski-Bowden, more so than the other authors. His writing style is unique to HH authors and his books keep me constantly entertained. Not only does he provide depth to characters but he does it so unlike the other authors that the characters take on a new perspective. Particularly in Betrayer I felt for the first time empathy and regret toward characters I normally had an intense dislike for. The way that ADB portrays Lorgar in The First Heretic made me feel sad. Sad i think is a great word to describe Lorgars situation, because through no fault of his own he is driven into an exile to try to redeem himself at least in his eyes. BUT EREBUS on the other hand I have some choice words for . Oh what I wouldnt give to see that worm torn aprt by the hands of some long lost foe whose righteous hatred burns with the power of 10,000 suns. Specificly some hulking Grey Knight with a power maul or a lightning claw. If I could have any way i wanted there would be a side story that brings Argel Tal (the Last Angel) back somehow. He is one of my favorite characters because he has such conviction drawn onto betrayal only by his loyalty to Lorgar who speaks of morals even with a deamon in his hearts. If Lorgar could only be redeemed I know there is a battle at the end of 40K and russ is supposed to return and a bunch of other stuff also can some one elaborate on what the deamon primarchs do in the eye of terror ????

[Balthamal]

IF you really want to see a certain chaplain suffer, there's a lovely little snippet in the epilogue of Fear to Tread. I cheered. Loudly

[AfroCampbell]

^ long time coming. long long time coming.

[Antarius]

Erebus is awesome.

 

Also, you can tell he's well written by the amount of rage he incites :)

[Wade Garrett]

I personally would love to have an Erebus centric novel, if it was by ADB, Dan Abnett, or Chris Wraight....basically someone who would give Destiny's Hand more depth than:

 

"My mustache makes Primarchs rage and fall, rage and fall, rage and fall. Twirling it, cuz I'm more evil than y'all, evil than y'all, evil than y'all."

[Dumah]

Erebus is awesome.

Also, you can tell he's well written by the amount of rage he incites

Too much showboating. The real bad boys don't need to sparkle in the spotlight and instead do their dirty deeds behind the scenes... *cough*Fabius*cough*

[m_r_parker]

If you enjoy ADB's work, then I heartedly refer you to the Night Lords trilogy he did (Soul Hunter, Blood Reaver, Void Stalker) if you can find them - maybe Black Library will put them in a omnibus at some stage, will save me lending out Blood Reaver to everyone. 40k Night Lords dealing with their ongoing crusade against the imperium, without a lot of the bolter-porn in a lot of other BL novels and dealing with some of the more realistic issues affecting a wandering warband after 10,000 years, such as:

• Lack of supplies, ammunition, replacement parts for equipment, and having a ship that's falling apart after many battles without repairs.
• An increasingly dwindling supply of Astartes, with no real means to create more or to recruit.
• Internal warband politics and distrust between various leaders, as well as political jostling with other warbands.
• Coming to terms with the loss of their patriarchal leader (Konrad), and how best to continue his work.

A really worthwhile read in my opinion. I think it show's ADB's depth as a writer where by the end of the third book you feel with sympathy and sadness for a character like Uzas, a Night Lord who is becoming more and more lost down a path towards Khorne worship and actively slaughters indiscriminently, when just before his death comes up with a clarity of sight to see a betrayl in their midsts that no-one else has noticed (I won't say what, as it's a fairly big spoiler).

[TheAurelian]

Thank you balthamal for this I have fear to tread on my shelf and will be sure to give that last bit a re read, fear to tread is one I my favorite books so far. I think Erebus I well written but that does not decrease my dislike for him I hate that he eventually squires the ability to teleport across the galaxy. I wish any other person would have been given this ability. Speaking of fear to tread I think that it is interesting enough that the warp gods preferred sanguinus to horus and that horus was only the second choice hahaha

[Firepower]

Erebus is awesome.

Also, you can tell he's well written by the amount of rage he incites

Too much showboating. The real bad boys don't need to sparkle in the spotlight and instead do their dirty deeds behind the scenes... *cough*Fabius*cough*

And now I will forever be forced to think of Dirty Deeds, Done Dirt Cheap when someone mentions Fabulous Bill, which is coincidentally a moniker I haven't been able to shake since ADB's little silly story on the loss of the Traitor Legions' toys post heresy.

So now Fabulous Bill has a theme song...hm.

[Wade Garrett]

Sanguinus, Sanguinus, Sanguinus, SANGUINUS.

 

I've heard about all I can stand of everyone singing his praises. Did he heal his homeworld like Vulkan and Corax did? Nope, ten thousand years later and Baal is still a radioactive hellhole infested with cannibal mutants.

 

Were the Blood Angels one of the "glory" Legions during the Great Crusade? Nope, that's the Luna Wolves, Ultramarines, Dark Angels, and apparently the Word Bearers. (The First Heretic)

 

When the Primarchs and their Astartes debated the "Space Wolves as Executioners" issue, did they list the Blood Angels as a possible alternative?

 

No, that's the Thousand Sons, World Eaters, Death Guard, Ultramarines, and Luna Wolves. (Betrayer)

 

Sanguinus isn't numbered among the best swordsmen (Fulgrim, Johnson, Khan) or the greatest generals (Dorn, Johnson, Guilliman, Horus).

 

So why in all the infinite Hells of the Warp does everyone keep talking about how he should have been Warmaster instead of Horus?

 

Because he's a sparkling fairy man with beautiful wings? BAH!

[Legatus]

I guess you must have met him to understand.

[Kol Saresk]

Erebus is awesome.

Also, you can tell he's well written by the amount of rage he incites

Too much showboating. The real bad boys don't need to sparkle in the spotlight and instead do their dirty deeds behind the scenes... *cough*Fabius*cough*

And now I will forever be forced to think of Dirty Deeds, Done Dirt Cheap when someone mentions Fabulous Bill, which is coincidentally a moniker I haven't been able to shake since ADB's little silly story on the loss of the Traitor Legions' toys post heresy.

So now Fabulous Bill has a theme song...hm.

Why would you do that to AC/DC? They deserve a better class of Traitor. I nominate Sevatar!

http://th09.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/i/2012/268/2/5/night_lords___sevatarion_jago_by_greyall-d5fvgjk.jpg

Disclaimer: The art is not mine. All credit for making it rightfully goes to the Amazing Greyall

[helterskelter]

Touch too much?

[Conn Eremon]

Nah, that'd be Fulgrim's.

 

"Thunderstruck" for Ace's Medusan Fulgrim.

[Firepower]

Wade- because Horus himself said it should have been Sanguinius. Seems open and shut to me.

Saresk- The traitors can have all the crappy AC/DC songs. Iron Man already bought all the good ones. But if you wanna complain I can always demote you to Guns n' Roses. I have that authority. Bet you didn't know that, now did you?

[Conn Eremon]

I . . . Think you got Angus and Ozzy mixed up, bro.

[Kol Saresk]

Wade- because Horus himself said it should have been Sanguinius. Seems open and shut to me.

Saresk- The traitors can have all the crappy AC/DC songs. Iron Man already bought all the good ones. But if you wanna complain I can always demote you to Guns n' Roses. I have that authority. Bet you didn't know that, now did you?

I could live with Paradise City. It's where all the girls are pretty. :D

[Conn Eremon]

Not to mention Slash's guitar riffs.

[Wade Garrett]

Wade- because Horus himself said it should have been Sanguinius. Seems open and shut to me.

And if the Heresy novels have shown us anything, it's that Horus's judgement was always sound. :p

Unfortunately for Sanguinus, he's suffering from a terrible case of "Show, Don't Tell" in that we have gushing testimonials to how awesome he is in Betrayer and False Gods but precious few examples of him doing awesome things.

And when you factor in that the testimonials are from Horus and Lorgar...

[Karthak]

 

 

Sanguinus isn't numbered among the best swordsmen (Fulgrim, Johnson, Khan) or the greatest generals (Dorn, Johnson, Guilliman, Horus).

 

 

 

Isn't it stated that only Horus or Angron could take him in a one-on-one fight?

[Conn Eremon]

The point he is making is that much is said, but little shown.

[Daddywarcrimes]

Maybe he'll join the list of people who've thrown down with Curze.

[TheAurelian]

Kurze has interested me for some time and i will be sure to check those books out. On the subject of Sanguinius If you read fear to tread he is totally in command at all times, yes he may not be the best strategist or swordsman but he has certain qualities that others lack. He is a leader of men fist and foremost he leads from the front engaging the enemy rather than from a rear command. He inspires those around him. Sanguinius also has wisdom that is lacking in other primarchs he is always calm cool and collected because he makes wise decisions and doesnt hasily run into any situation. His troops loyalty is unwavering even going as far as defying the council of nikea o help sanguinus. Yes they defied the emperors command but their loyalty is a reflection of whom they serve. The blood angels are loyal to sanguinus just as he is loyal to the emperor. In fear to tread we also see his bad to the bone side as he confronts Ka'bandha.

 

Sanguinius. It should have been him. He has the vision and strength to carry us to victory, and the wisdom to rule once victory is won. For all his aloof coolness, he alone has the Emperor's soul in his blood. Each of us carries part of our father within us, whether it is his hunger for battle, his psychic talent or his determination to succeed. Sanguinius holds it all. It should have been his

[GrandMagnus]

EDIT: Damn you Aurealian, you ninjad me right there, I was going to say that he did fight a greater deamon of khorne

[Olis]

If I could have any way i wanted there would be a side story that brings Argel Tal (the Last Angel) back somehow. He is one of my favorite characters because he has such conviction drawn onto betrayal only by his loyalty to Lorgar who speaks of morals even with a deamon in his hearts.

The whole point to his death is that Erebus knew he was a threat to his plans - ergo he had to die. It does, however speak volumes that the death of such a character can strike a chord in you enough to want him back. But, I humbly point out, having him come back would be a bad idea.

His death was a powerful moment and, I also point out, so was Garviel Loken's. Loken's 'resurrection' cheapened his implied death (imho) to the point where the dramatic impact is null and void now I know he lives. It killed a rather climactic moment elsewhere in the mythos for little perceived gain.

To me, when a primary character dies (especially a space marine), it should be a final (with very few exceptional cases). It's their raison d'être (to fight and die). As a narrative device, a character death has huge punch, if delivered correctly. A return made by a true or implied 'dead' character makes the death feel cheap. (There is two ways of lessening this cheapness, I think: 1) Make them miserable. If nothing else, it makes the character somewhat interesting again; 2) It was either part of the plan all along or it's not a real problem. If so, then death is an interesting/frightening/unfortunate... detour.)

Also - don't you just HATE Erebus for doing it?