Returning to the hobby with a new BA army

[LongGone]

I've been coming to the B&C for years, but beyond a post here and there, I've basically been lurking the entire time. I was drawn into the 40K universe by the fluff (I've got my own Black Library forming here in my apartment) but I've been an on again, off again tabletop general. I've had two small (500pts) armies in the past, DA and BT, but the last one was over five years ago. I'm looking to get back into it, and I'm hoping to improve my painting skills. That's always been my big issue, my one weakness in the hobby that keeps me from being more involved. My DA's were dark green blobs with the details lost in thick paint, and my BT were basically sprayed black with a few 'details' globbed on. Hopefully I've soaked up enough knowledge from the forums here to change that.

I've decided to build a DIY chapter of Marines based off the Blood Angels dex. There's just something about their fluff, and all the beautiful plastic awesomeness available to us. I'm thinking about calling the chapter 'The Host' and basically playing up the angel imagery (enter Wikipedia's entry on the hierarchy of angels). The SG would be the Seraphim, the DC could be Nephilim, and so on. I almost feel like that would be a little OTT with the 'angelicness', but they're my little plastic men dangit. Plus it's not like the fluff in my head really has an impact on the table.

The basic idea for my paint scheme is below. I know it's a little...ballsy I guess, for a novice painter to go for a mainly white scheme, but it's something that I've always thought looked amazing if done right. What do you guys think? My plan is to prime white, wash with nuln oil, and then layer white back on top. Any tips you guys have would be awesome.

Really hope I did that right, that's the first time I've tried to post an image.

Anyways, the plan is to use this WIP blog to bolster my motivation and basically hold me accountable to finish the army and continue to put paint on plastic. I've picked up most of the supplies I need, and ordered the rest. I plan on doing up some test models this weekend during the Veterans Day 96. I'll post some images when they're done.

Wish me luck.

LG

[LongGone]

Once I get the test models sorted out, my plan is to build a librarian, two 10-man assault squads (Fist and 2 Melta/Fist and 2 Flamer), and a ten man bolter DC. Thoughts? 

 

What do you guys think about the different types of force weapons for libbies? Mephiston has a sword, but what are you guys running your standard librarians with? 

 

I plan on putting together some fragiosos, but what models should I focus on once I get the basic HQ and Troops choices taken care of?

[Memento Of Prospero]

Power fist sergeants are not a good idea in assault squads, as they just die before inflicting any damage in challenges. Magnetize your special weapons so you can swap in between them easy same with backpacks/jump packs!

 

Drop pods are great additions to any marine force, as they can deliver various units.

[Terrahawk]

Welcome aboard, you made a fine choice.

I don't think the heavily emphasized Angel aspect is going to cause any problems, since the 1st founding chapter already draws heavily from that. They most certainly will be distinguished as a BA successor.

As for the painting, one tip I can give you that might be of use, is that instead of washing the whole model with Nuln Oil only wash the recesses in the armour. That way you have less areas to cover with your second white layer(s) and will increase your paintbrushmanship (what a word ).

Your planned army list sounds very solid, but I personally would swap Fists for Power Swords, so they have a chance in challenges. Also, the Bolter DC might enjoy a Rhino, or even better a Drop Pod. Maybe a project for the future?

Anyways, good luck with your project, and may the Angel help you bring ruination upon the enemies of Man.

[knife&fork]

Fists are not awful, they are still the best power weapon on a sergeant IMHO, you just need to make sure they don't end up in a challenge with something they don't want to fight. 

[Xenith]

Good ideas, although they look a tad Dark Angely, with the squared emblem and colouration.

 

As per Terra, do not wash the model with nuln oil, you'll just wreck it, use a fine brush and paint the nuln oil into the recesses, then you just need minor touch ups with the white, as opposed to a whole new coat, which may splodge onto the wash :/

 

Army composition seems good also, seconding the pod for the bolter DC. Get at least one powerfist in the DC unit too.

 

Then think about some long ranged support for your dudes.

 

Welcome to the Tower of Baal.

[infyrana]

I've seen a lot of white come out very gritty / bitty.  May I recommend you do a little research with other paint companies like P3 and Vallejo to see what their white paints are like in terms of smooth finish.

 

I agree with the wash, you will darken everything so quick and it will be more effort to get your white finish back without more painting over the top - thin brush into the recesses with the wash.

 

There was someone who had a white DC unit, with other colours for his main BA's, I felt it looked quite nice.  Running the whole force in white - will you go with a different colour for your DC?

[Father Mapple]

I was worried about your decision to do white until I saw you were just spraying, washing, detailing. That's the way to do white. If you get the smallest of small brushes, like a 000 size, and then make sure it's not a long one, but a short 000 you'll be golden. Or white-en. 

The other thing I would recommend is use the spray and pot-paint from the same company, no matter the cost in the long run. If you buy GW white spray, but the same white in a pot. Same goes for Vallejo, or P3, or Army Builder, etc. The difference in tint/shade is very telling if you use one company's white to clean up another company's spray, etc.

 

The list is good! If you have two assault squads, I'd recommend 1 priest for them. Put an Axe on the priest as well as the librarian. It means you have, math-hammer-wise, 26 marines, which is worth the investment of the priest and jump pack. (6 more assault marines costing 108, priest + jump pack + power weapon costing 90). The S5 on the charge for the two units helps a lot, and the 8 S6 AP2 attacks from the Librarian and Priest will swing a lot of combats your way at the 1000 points and lower range.

[Xenith]

I'll add in that I've had very good results from Ceramite white over a black undercoat. It covers very well, dreybrushed on, it goes a little grainy (as with all paints), but watered down and painted on its extremely smooth.

[LongGone]

Thanks for all the tips guys. I've seen the white paint/wash done a few different ways, but it seems like recesses only way is winning out. 

 

@Infyrana - It's xmercx who is painting his DC and Sang Guard white. His blog over in the WIP section is one I've been lurking on for the last few weeks. I wasn't planning on doing a entirely different scheme for the DC, but just making the helmets black or blue... most likely black.

 

@Father Mapple - I definitely planned on getting some priests for my assault squads. I was planning on giving them power swords though. I had read somewhere here in the BA section that was the better choice, and that it would complement the fisty sergeant. Is the +1 strength, AP 2 worth striking last? Terrahawk was using the decreased initiative to argue against the fist. It seems like the change to power weapon profiles messed stuff up a lil' bit. 

[sockwithaticket]

With regards to painting white, Vallejo do a couple of grey washes which allow for a softer way of shading white, leaning away from a potential black lining effect.

[Father Mapple]

If you go swords on sergeants, then do axe on the Priest. If you do fists on the Sergeants, then sword on the priest. The axe on the Libby every time, so you have that 50% chance to wound and then force weapon a Monstrous Creature.

Hitting last also can mean that they are out of range at the higher initiatives - since you pull casualties from closest to furthest even in combat, if the axes are not engaged or not in base-base contact, then they're less likely to get pulled as casualties. And you want your priest to survive so the I1 or I4 people get the buff from the charge. If he dies on I5 or something, then no buff.

 

Also, you only need 1 priest for 20 assault guys. Maybe even for 30. Only if you are providing a buff to 35 or more would I go 2 priests, since the 6" bubble gets hard to fit at 4+ units. 2 units getting enough guys inside the 6" bubble to provide the whole unit FNP is easy to do. 3 units gets tough. There's just not enough room for 4 unless they're combat squads.

[LongGone]

Ahhhhh I see, said the blind man. Thanks for the tips. I will definitely keep them in mind as I'm building my army.

 

I've never really had to worry about a 'bubble buff' before. I guess I had assumed you'd want as many on the table as possible. But that makes sense, and the points can definitely be used elsewhere. 

[LongGone]

Between a work event and the weather, I haven't been able to get as much done as I wanted. I keep reading that the success of spray priming is very dependent on temperature and humidity, and It's hard to get ideal conditions here in Seattle in the winter. I was able to squeeze some priming in during a brief period of sunshine, so I wanted to post a photo and ask some questions... and prove that I'm continuing to make progress.

I'm testing my scheme on some old BT crusaders that I never put paint on, so pay no attention to the chains and crosses. The photo was just taken on a cell phone, so I apologize for the quality. (It's pretty sad when the Marine photojournalist doesn't have his camera)

I've been pumping my local GW reps for advice, and one of them mentioned that its not necessary to "completely cover" the model during priming. That all you need is enough pigment for the next layers to pick up on. That this will keep you from accidentally cover any details (the downfall of my Dark Angels back in high school). What do you guys think about this? In my inexperienced-painter head it makes sense...

Also, what do you guys think about painting before assembly? I've read arguments for both, but I can already see how it would make things easier. Faster? Not so much. But I can see how it could improve my paintbrushmanship (Thanks for that word Terra )

[Memento Of Prospero]

Painting before assembly is how it should be done in theory. You paint parts way more accurately especially small details. However, I've been in this hobby for a looong time and I can never resist the urge to build models and curse my weakness in hindsight everytime ;)

[marine7312000]

I'm a firm supporter of partial assembly before painting. It really comes down to how easy it will be to get to all the little details after the model is fully assembled. On the subject of priming, I'd suggest going for decent coverage with yours since it looks like you're priming with your base color. You should be able to tell that you primed the model white when you get done, but you shouldn't need more than one pass per side. Years ago I primed my first batch of BA with red spray from a hardware store and decided to try and cover the model with as much red as possible. I think one can of paint lasted for half a tank and about two squads worth of troops. Needless to say, there were few details to be found on those models. Just make sure that your spray can is from the same manufacturer as your paint pot/ touch-up paint.

[LongGone]

So real life reared its ugly head and kicked me in the... well let's just say it got me good.

 

I still haven't finished the test models, but I was able to knock out my IA article. If you guys get a chance, take a looksee and tell me what you think. 

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283427-ia-the-host-my-diy-ba-successors/