The Iron Dragons

[Uberlord Gendo]

>_>

<_<

 

...I thought it was interesting.

(Also, forest soil should be really rich at the beginning of the season.  If they do crop rotation they'll have good stuff, it'll just be hard work to defend it.)

[Omega Striker]

It's easy to fall into the trap of describing the chapter's homeworld a lot.  It is after all a whole PLANET full of stuff going on.  Remember though that the IA is concerned about the Chapter.  What parts of the homeworld have an effect on the chapter.  Vodka? Don't tell me about your :cuss: drink.  Space Marine biology wouldn't even hiccup over the strongest stuff mortals can drink and possibly not die from.  Tell me about how your space marines alternate tactics like the seasons alternate on the homeworld.  "When everything is clearly visible the chapter sticks to long range warfare, but when night settles over the battlefield, they switch to a stealthy-stabby mode."  Something like that.  Talk about hunting big winter beasties with your bare hands as part of the trials to become a company captain.  What does your chapter do on your world?  

[Lord-Captain Cepinari]

Well, I've finally thought up an origin story for the Chapter.  You're probably going to hate it, but it beats my earlier idea of having the Chapter's origins be a mystery due to an attempt by the Sector Governor to secede from the Imperium leading to the Sector's entire history being erased, including the Founding of the Iron Dragons, whose Fortress-Monastery was hit by orbital fire during the attempted secession, and they told everyone who asked, "Well darn, that wing was where we kept all of our records about both our history, and the history of the Sector as a whole.  What are the odds?"  Imperial historians attempting to rediscover the Sector's lost history would be divided on whether or not they were lying, but since they couldn't exactly press the issue they'd be stuck, with the overall implication being that the Chapter's true origins are somehow tied into the earliest days of the Sector.

 

Guh.

 

Anyway, the new origin story is much, much worse!

 

Way back when, long before their little blood-feud with the Orks, a Company of Crimson Fists was partaking in an overall effort to bring the Emperor's Light to a long forgotten corner of the Galaxy.  To make a long story short, things didn't go so well, and the battered remnants of said Company found themselves going to ground on a remote moon populated by feral humans.  While stuck there, they made the best of a bad situation and began spreading His Word to the local primitives, who took to it very quickly.  They also aided the locals in exterminating the Chaos Cults that had been plaguing them since time immemorial.  While waiting for a pick up, however, forces from the local Chaos Empire had managed to track them down, and things were looking grimdarker than usual.  The remaining Crimson Fists resigned themselves to a last stand, but help came from an unexpected direction.  Despite having only faced plain old human cultists before, and despite being armed solely with primitive slug-throwers, the moon's inhabitants managed to use their home field advantage to help the Space Marines turn what would have been a rout into a successful defense, holding the Chaos forces back long enough for help to arrive.  Once additional Imperial ships entered the system, the remaining Chaos forces hauled ass out of there, and the surviving Space Marines were shipped back to their Chapter Fleet.

 

When they finally got home, the response was, basically, "Hey, welcome home!  It turns out that while you were gone the High Lords of Terra decided now would be the perfect time to found some new chapters, and since they've also decided that the sector of space you only barely just escaped with your lives needs the presence of a Chapter to help bring it into the fold, we're immediately shipping you back there with some Gene-Seed and a few extra suits of armor to found one!  Good luck!"  Fortunately, the recently-promoted Chapter Dads knew of just the right world full of resolute and determined moon-men for the job, and the rest is history.  (Mostly because I haven't thought it up yet.)

 

 

 

But wait, I gets WORSE!!!

 

That founding I mentioned?  I'm currently thinking of making it that old favorite, The Cursed 21st!  The idea is that the Imperial Fists Gene-Seed used was altered by the Mechanicus as a sort of proof of concept for the other Foundings.  After all, the only mutations in IF Gene-Seed is that the Betcher's Gland and the Sus-An Membrane are missing, it's not like their genetic code predetermines them towards being crazy loonies or anything.  As a test run, it was seen as a safe bet.  Either it worked and a perfectly stable and useable Gene-Seed regains two lost organs, or it doesn't and things go back to the way they were, no harm no foul.  Well, it worked.  Sorta.  The reintroduction of the Betcher's Gland didn't take.  They managed to cultivate a single generation of them, but a little while after implantation they went all cystic and had to be removed, and the Progenoids cultivated from those Marines were missing the matching zygotes again.  The Sus-An worked though.  Mostly.  It kinda started interacting with the Catalepsean Node all weird, and now whenever an Iron Dragon suffers major trauma (we're talking major by Marine standards here, the sort of thing they'd actually need medical attention for) there's a good chance he'll enter a bizarre, somnambulist like state, wherein he's completely indifferent to pain and damage, and continues to fight until the battle's over, at which point he passes out for realsies and has to be dragged back to base.  If he survives long enough for the Apothecary to patch him up, he'll remain in that state for a period of time ranging from a few days to a few centuries, if not for forever.  If he does manage to wake up, he'll have no memory of the fight after the initial injury, but will have memories of talking to long-dead members of the Chapter's history, though the whole thing will be very fuzzy and fragmented.  Nevertheless, these dreams are always seen by the Chapter as prophetic visitations by the ghosts of Space Marines past, who'd intervened in order to make sure the Marine returned to the land of the living with their message.

 

 

 

'Kay, that's it.  That's all I got for the moment.  Somehow it's gotten to be Two in the Morning here and I have to go desperate last minute Christmas shopping this afternoon, so I'm out.  Let me know how bad of an idea this is.  Later.

[Uberlord Gendo]

Hmmm, any plans to flesh out the local chaos empire?

 

The fugue state concept sounds interesting, particularly with the bit about coming back with visions.  Where do they keep the comatose battle brothers?

(I'll admit I've got an image of rows and rows of marines in class chambers down in the crypts.)

Now that I think of it, it strikes me as very Arthurian/Ogier the Dane, the whole hero under the mountain awaiting the darkets hour.  Might be kind of cool if they had memories of a great hall of the slain and feasting there until the 1st chapter master/primarch/some figure of legend sends them back.

'Go my son, your hour is at hand'

Depending on how dark you want it, they could have an overriding, obsessive goal in such cases.

[Lord-Captain Cepinari]

The local Chaos Empire was only meant to be a historical footnote, with it's destruction being part of the overall reclaiming of the Sector, but having thought about it I think I'll have dozens of cults founded by the surviving rulers be a constant thorn in the Imperium's side even after millennia have passed.

[Lord-Captain Cepinari]

Been thinking about the 'Oath' angle, decided on a way to go with it.

 

Inside the Fortress-Monastery is a place called "The Hall of Oaths" (If that's been taken by another Chapter let me know so I can come up with something more original.) where Iron Dragon Commanders swear an oath to complete a mission, either Errant or Crusading, before returning.  During the ritual swearing of the oath, he places his hands on the hilt of an Archaeotech sword that's been driven into the floor.  The sword, which dates back to the Heresy if not before, was presented to the Chapter at it's Founding and was used by the first Chapter Master, who drove it into the floor when he swore an Oath to do something I haven't quite thought up yet, then climbed on board a Battle Barge with some of the Chapter's best and was never heard from again.  Since no one's been able to pull that sword out of the floor, the Chapter takes this as a sign that Fearless Leader is still out there somewhere, and will one day return to lead the Chapter to greatness.  'Till then, the Commanders and Head Specialists run things as a council, headed by the "Chapter Regent," the Commander smart, strong, and charismatic enough to be able to lead all the other leaders in the Chapter.

[Lord-Captain Cepinari]

Wait, gimmie a second, I'm going somewhere, I'm there, there was a Sorcerer-King running the local Chaos Empire, very powerful, we're talking End Boss here, and part of the Founding of the Iron Dragons was to whack him.  Great big war, lots of fighting, lots of heroism, lots of horrible deaths, and one of the first generation Dragons rocks so damn much he gets to be the first ever Iron Dragon Chapter Master.  Archaeotech sword, Terminator Armor, the works.  The Crimson Fists who trained up the Chapter die, he returns them to their Chapter, comes back to finish the war.  By then all that was left of the Chaos realm was it's capitol planet and surrounding systems.  CM takes the Chapter in, tries to take out the King and his capitol planet in one stroke.  Evil King Dude uses his magic, not enough, Head Dragon hits him with the sword a bunch, but before he can actually kill him he turns into a Daemon Prince and rips reality a new one.  They fight some more, and the Chapter Master lands a blow that leaves the Chaos King crippled, but can't quite manage to kill him before he collapses from fighting and being at the epicenter of a Warp Rift formation.  Daemon Dude manages to crawl away and the other Dragons find their Boss and escape the Rift.  They get back home, where the CM drives his sword into the floor, makes a prophecy, and dies.

 

The prophecy says whoever manages to pull the sword from the floor will lead the Chapter on their Final Crusade, when the entire Chapter leaves the moon for good and enters the Warp Rift in order to finally slay the Chaos King and end his realm forever.

[Uberlord Gendo]

Add in some other endtimey prophecies and I think you've got something.

Perhaps they're thinking all the brothers who are still sleeping will awaken for the final battle.

 

Thrice shall The Beast come to _____ and be turned away.

_____ shall dawn red.

Then shall the dead arise

And a child shall play with farseer's bones.

The Hammer of Krandros shall draw the sword

And all shall know the return of the lord.

 

Something like that.

[AlabasterKnight]

 

 

 

Company Captain, versions one and two.  I just did the second one a few days ago, and while I like it a lot more than the first, I'm regretting that I never wrote down the hex code for the shade of gold I used in the first version, this new one is weak sauce.  I think I was channeling too much Dawn of War commander for the first one, that's why it's covered in gold to such a ridiculous degree.

 

Try : 967d44.

It's one of like 5 similar hue combos from the pixels in the lightest areas according to sampling that Photoshop gave me.

[Lord-Captain Cepinari]

Dangit, I hit a dry spot again.  The only new stuff I've got is deciding to call the fugue state and following coma "The Dragon-Sleep", and having Mechanicus records refer to the star system their Homeworld's in as the Betadyne System.  Naturally, the natives would have their own name for it, but as far as the rest of the galaxy's concerned it's the Betadyne System, deal with it.

[Lord-Captain Cepinari]

I am such a loser.

 

It's been months, and I'm back with nothing to show for it.

 

The only thing I have to post has been sitting in the back of my defective head since before I left.

 

Over the last few decades, the relationship between the Iron Dragons Chapter and the Imperial forces ruling the sector have soured, with multiple incidences occurring and several Campaigns going badly.  Recently, the cause of the shift in behavior of the leaders of the Chapter has been revealed:  The Chief Librarian had turned Traitor some time ago and had been using Chaos Sorcery to dominate the minds and wills of the other Leaders.  With his escape into the region of space held in the grip of Chaos, the Chapter Master et al. have been freed from his vile influence.  Unfortunately, years of being psychically dominated have left them all in weak health, and now the future of the Chapter is uncertain.  One Captain was shaping up as a likely replacement for the Chapter Master, but during his last Campaign he inadvertently insulted the Chapter Master of the Praetorians to his face, and has sworn to undergo a Penitence Crusade that will last a century, without any resupplies or recruiting.  Everyone back home is really hoping he gets back in one piece, otherwise they are very likely screwed.

[Lord-Captain Cepinari]

Hmmm. They're supposed to be part of the Cursed 21st, but I'm starting to wonder if they're cursed enough.

 

The Fire Hawks all burst into flame, the Black Dragons grow bones all over their bodies, and the Lamenters are the unluckiest bastards in the entire universe. The Iron Dragons are narcoleptic. Whoopee-doo.

 

Maybe I should rethink having the Betcher's Gland fail to be reintroduced to the Imperial Fist's gene-seed. Maybe the Mechanicus DID manage to reintroduce it, but it came back wrong.

 

Y'know how Space Marine biology always seems to match with the Chapter's theme? I'm thinking the Gland mostly works, but instead of producing a potent acid for the Marine to spit in people's faces, it produces a chemical that combusts when it comes into contact with oxygen. Yeah, fire-breathing Space Marines. Also, sparks and smoke tend to fall from their mouths when they talk.

[Lord-Captain Cepinari]

 

Damn it, why can't I be satisfied with the scheme I already have?

 

Honestly, I think this is too much orange.  I don't care how much easier it'd be to paint, I still don't like it.

[Lord-Captain Cepinari]

 

I might be on to something here, it just needs a bit more work...

[Lord-Captain Cepinari]

From:

 

to:

 

then:

 

to:

 

and finally:

 

 

Well, it'd definitely be easier to paint on the models, that's for sure.

 

Is anybody still reading this thread?

[Lord-Captain Cepinari]

Hello? Anyone there?

 

 

I'm thinking that for some reason the Chapter has very few suits of Terminator Armor and fewer Land Raiders then is normal, and therefore uses more Sternguard and Vanguard Squads, as well as more Rhino derivatives, to compensate. Right now I have it as Terminator Armor and Land Raiders are for members of the Chapter Master's personal company only.

 

Also, I'm thinking about some of the cultural bleed-over from the moon people to the Space Marines. We've got the whole "The gun is good" thing going, but I'm thinking that isn't enough. I'm thinking that the natives should, alongside the whole monotheistic Emperor worship, also practice a form of animism, one that stays with them even after they become Astartes. You try spending weeks in a forest and not become convinced that it's aware and actively hates you and wants you dead. So the people do stuff to try and placate (or control) the spirits of the local landscape, like a shrine for keeping the local volcano sleepy, or a fetish on the outskirts of the forest where hunters and trappers leave offerings so the forest doesn't get pissed about all the animal life being removed from it. Learning about The Emperor, machine-spirits, and Daemons does very little to dissuade them of these notions, and in fact this is what allowed them to accept His Light very quickly. You have a soul, your gun has a soul, that thing over there that it hurts to look at wants your soul, so why can't a tree, or a river, or a whole mountain range have a soul too? So the people often carry talismans and charms to protect them from bad spirits and call upon good ones, and this habit doesn't go away when they become children of Dorn. Naturally, the Spirit Animal for the Chapter as a whole is The Dragon, a mythical, larger-then-life beast greater than all the other animals, an unstoppable predator that flies through the air, spews fire, rends the ground, and weathers all blows. A beast that is yet not a beast, for it possesses knowledge and power beyond normal humans. Groups within the Chapter will also associate themselves with a second spirit animal, usually one with traits they see as beneficial to their preferred fighting style, like swiftness or keen vision, the usual junk.

 

In keeping with the rather fluid command structure, I'm thinking that being a Captain doesn't always mean you're in command. When a "company" of sufficient size forms, multiple Captains might be part of it. One will be the Force Commander, in charge of the whole show, while the others become Sub-Commanders in charge of parts of the force. Who gets to be the Big Boss and who gets to be a Small Boss depends on experience, capability, and what sort of fighting style you have. A Captain who specializes in Fast Attack combat like Bikes and Jump Packs might be Force Commander of a force comprised primarily of those units, but if Assault Marines, Bikers and Land Speeders only form a portion of the force he'll probably be the Sub-Commander in command of that division, while someone with a better grasp of combined tactics warfare takes over-all command. Because of this, those who specialize too much tend to not rise very far in leadership, because a Space Marine leader has to be flexible and capable of different forms of warfare. I need some sort of Dragon-related name for these guys, they're like somewhere between Veterans and Captains.

 

Oh yeah, and I'm thinking that the overly-military titles should be replaced with more dragon-y ones. Calling it a 'squad' with a 'sergeant' makes it sound like they're only together because command said so, and I want it to have more of a 'band of brothers' feel to it then that.

[Lord-Captain Cepinari]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*thud* *thud* *thud*

[Lord-Captain Cepinari]

 

Gogsnik, March 31:

 

I found the information on the Homeworld pretty neat and I thought your
ideas about the Geneseed were good, I liked them a lot. Also, I think
the second set of colour schemes looked better.

For a proper I.A. article then the language should be more formal
and as you already know, names are something you will have to spend some
time on developing. The Chapter's tactics also seem a bit lacklustre
and nothing that the Astartes don't do anyway. The only thing I don't
think works that well and seems self-indulgent is the Destiny section.

The Chaos King becoming a Daemon Prince didn't really work for me,
and whilst I don't see how a daemon could be permanently crippled I do
like the idea. Then there is the relic sword, if that was a weapon
wielded by Dorn I find it highly unlikely that any Chapter, let alone
the Crimson Fists would give it up and the Excalibur slant you've put on
it seems tacked on, especially given the Chapter's preference for
ranged weapons.

Overall, I think your Chapter seems pretty decent and the Betcher's Gland mutation is a cool idea.

 

----

 

I think it would be much improved if it were expanded more since you
have the Chapter race in and achieve a very great detail in short order.
Perhaps you could use the Chapter's gene-seed flaws here.

I don't think it is really suggested in what you've written but for
some reason it's stuck in my mind that they could be impetuous at times
to the point of recklessness. If they had such a fiery temperament that
would explain a headlong charge into the heart of the Chaos Empire. I
also think you could have the Chapter Master suffer from the Chapter's
second flaw at the climactic moment, falling into a coma which he still
has not awoken from. Maybe the relic blade is clutched in his hand with
none able to remove it?

This would also tie in with the hasty retreat from the warzone and
shows two sides to their flaws. On the one hand, they almost
single-handedly destroy this massive threat even if it was incredibly
rash to attempt to do so but crucially, they fail because of their other
flaw - I think obviously this section as you have written it, also ties
in very nicely with your ideas about the homeworld, explosive action
followed by long dormancy.

Of course, this attack into the heart of the Empire could have been
well co-ordinated with the other Imperial Forces, with the sheer
ferocity of the Iron Dragons almost working but then, as with their
homeworld, they lapse into a period of inactivity and sluggishness which
ultimately allows the Chaos King to escape.

 

Got some interesting feedback on another forum, what do you guys think of these points he brought up?

[Lord-Captain Cepinari]

There's Nothing Wrong With Adjective-Noun

Adjective noun takes a lot of stick from some quarters. Nonetheless, it's my favorite kind of Chapter name. It's simple, it's effective, and it admirably gives you immediate insight into the Chapter's theme. It's better at this than other methods because it also let's you have more than one theme while it's doing that – the Marauders may maraud, but the Blood Angels are about both blood and angelicness. You can present your chapter to the reader and create three impressions – that of the adjective, that of the noun and that of the two together.

 

The Blood Angels, to really harp on this example, demonstrate their angelic nature (with Angels), their obsession with blood (with, well, Blood), and their nature as ravening forces of destruction who really like jump packs (with Blood Angels). 'Ice Lords' demonstrates the cold of their home world, their duty, and the loneliness of Taramant and company (Ice), while also demonstrating their relationship with the people (Lords). The two together create impressions that they are either cold and detached (which nicely covers one faction of the Chapter) or that they have somehow mastered the cold (which, assuming it's a metaphorical cold representing duty, covers the other). The Dark Angels set up expectations of perfection with Angels, counter it with expectations of secrecy and mistrust with Dark, and as the rounded Dark Angels exemplify the inherent danger of their allegiance. As can be seen from these examples, adjective-noun is a good way to show off a Chapter's character and subtly (or not-so-subtly) give people an impression of what they will be like.

Hmmm...

 

"Iron" - "Dragons"

 

Iron:

• cold
• hard
• metal
• machine
• tool
• technology
• fire
• forge
• industry
• weapon
• strength
• inflexible
• harsh
• brutal
• unyielding

Dragon:

• beast
• monster
• predator
• hunter
• killer
• fantastic
• powerful
• greed
• hoard
• arrogance
• blood lust
• fire
• destruction
• fury
• primal

 

Hmmm...

[gameos7]

.

[Lord-Captain Cepinari]

I've thought up a few more possibilities, but only one of them is actually meaningful, the rest are cosmetic.

 

I'll do the pointless cosmetic ones first. The first one is that, as they age, their eyes change color. The sclera turns yellow and the iris becomes a fiery reddish-orange. The second is that the biochemical process for forming scar tissue has been altered, and now instead of regular skin wounds heal over with a layer of metallic-black scales. What do you think, too much?

 

I was also thinking that the moon should have natural dragons as an apex predator, and that one of the things an initiate has to do to join up is singlehandedly track down and kill one of these dragons, and then eat it's heart to gain it's strength. And it's soul. Yeah. Consume the dragon's soul so it becomes a part of your own soul and listen to it's advice when on the battlefield like a heavy metal and bestial version of the Force. And make a cape of it's scales. And maybe some other stuff out of the rest of it. Lots of raw materials on those things.

[Teetengee]

I'm not a huge fan of there being actual dragons on your planet, once maybe, but now long gone.

I would think that the Dragon could be a representation of the Emperor, as he seems to match the characteristics properly.

As for the librarian, perhaps his dying strike just killed the hive tyrant and those beneath it, rather than doing any permanent separation thing.

 

Also, I don't know if you really need to be a cursed founding, but you seem to be going with it fairly well, so keep on if you want to.

 

I like much of the other stuff you have mentioned, and will likely refine my opinions and post on that later.

 

Finally, it would be much easier to read your information if it wasn't wall of texted. You have a lot of interesting stuff, feel free to separate it out so we can process it bit by bit.

[Lord-Captain Cepinari]

Instead of dragons existing and being hunted for the initiation, maybe there should just be a single, colossal dragon skeleton buried beneath the Fortress-Monastery, and at it's feet is a pool of perpetually burning liquid that's supposedly the dragon's eternal fire, and aspirants have to survive throwing themselves into it as part of the rites. Like, it burns away all impurities and strengthens your metaphysical metal, but if there's more impurities than metal in you, you just burn away.

 

There could be myths about the dragon dating back to the earliest years of mankind's colonization of the moon, and the Iron Dragons are seen as heirs to the dragon's legacy as master of the world.

 

Perhaps Rogal Dorn's legendary stubbornness could manifest as the Marines of the chapter exhibiting Super-Persistent Predator Syndrome.

[Teetengee]

Sounds good, also those ideas have just the right separation to be easily digestible.

[incinerator950]

I'm not against Dragons being on the planet, but it sounds too much like the Salamanders.

 

I will say it's still believable, there are living salamanders as well as Micah dragons, but the skeleton is too much to pass up.