Disciple of Caliban Sgt Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 Brothers, I need to give you some background with a bit of a rant and then on to my dilemma and questions. I find myself excited and drawn towards the Chaos Codex. I have always had a soft spot for it and in fact way back.......ok 5 years ago I started by buying Berzerkers and Chaos Termi's. However I found I just couldn't play the units I wanted with our wonderful 4th ed codex and had very limited funds at the time. Therefore I found myself whisked away to DA and have pretty much an entire Company Collected. So I find my eyes wandering as I finish them up. Now I looked at everything and have realized as I looked at the loyalists that I also love Jump pack troops. Now I know BA have gone from king of the rock down to meh but I don't care and I have quite a few jump marines I'm putting together and am starting to collect some of them. Well as my wife likes to say I am as bad as fan girl when it comes to our plastic crack addiction. I've looked at and come up with army lists for just about every army out there (including xenos) and so I know that I like BA and have the models and will be putting them together hopefully over xmas. But chaos........oh lovely chaos calls to me. I've seen the complaint thread and heard all the reasons why NOT to get chaos but a part of me (I claim the evil twin) loves the idea of using the Chaos codex and laughing like a maniac as I spill the blood of the false emperors people. So long rant to ask these questions. I like the Crimson Slaughter. Love the DV models and love the renegade story and fluff I even like the paint job. My problem is while I have more funds now than I did when starting I'm not made of gold (if some of you are please let me know I could use some!) anyway my idea came to me the other day and it was this. Crimson Slaughter are certainly khorne like if not Khorne Lite. They are a newer renegade chapter so they would have newer loyalist equipment. So if I painted up and used a Blood angels successor and used them as Crimson Slaughter count as for certain games would you as a player have an issue with this? I would be very clear when and where I was using Chaos Codex vs BA codex. No hidden units WSIWYG would be strictly adhered too however many of the units would be marks of BA of course. I would slowly buy units of Chaos especially for DV and add them together buying Chaos chosen and Two Helldrakes and Forgefiends etc. I am not a tourney player nor am I going for cheese here I am trying to keep the cost down by using things like BA jump pack Marines as Count As Raptors, vindicators magnetized with Havoc Launchers, Rhino magnetized spikes etc. "Chaosing" is that a word?, up units would happen but once again would be slow. So brothers of Bolter and Sword do you see any issues with this? Gold and Red paint still apply etc. I even had an idea of a display showing the evolution or de-evolution of the Crimson Sabres down to Crimson Slaughter becoming a full chaos warband. A fall from grace or whatever. This would save a lot of money as I would only really need to buy specialist units Hell Drakes, Forgefiends and the BA stuff while the bolter marines could stay the same and for chosen I could use the DV chosen as a "more chaos" type unit. Vehicles as well would be cheaper for those that have the exact same profiles. Last question is I have looked far and wide (on google) and have seen most people stating Crimson Slaughter are Chaos Undivided hence my post here. However I also know they were cursed by Khorne so they would certainly lean more that way. My last question is do you think Crimson Slaughter may have one or two units of say Nurgle marked or Plague Marines? Obviously not Slanneesh as they hate each other but I would think if a majority of the units were Khorne with a few Nurgle's sprinkled in it could make sense if they were Undivided. I am asking please for any opinions and reasons why or why not any of this would work. Would you play against it? Think its a terrible idea? Once again I'm not trying to pull the wool over anyone's eyes so I would ensure any opponents were very clear on what units were what. So help me out here Bolter brothers and let me know what you think. Thanks in advance for any help DoC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 I would definitely play against it but you may have trouble in tournament/competitive areas. As long as its clearly marked by you, it should be just fine for friendly games. As far as fluff on the Crimson Slaughter, I haven't read the book on it so I'm unsure, but I believe they're undivided leaning towards Khorne. It's really up to you though what you want to do with them, you can have PMs or NMs in your force, just provide a good reason why they're there or a good counts as fluff description. Don't be hamstrung even more by a mono-god theme, its hard enough with this codex. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toomanyprojects Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 Some people may well have an issue with that, but frankly a lot of those are people who it would not be enjoyable to play against anyway. It's your army, IMHO as long as you stick to the mechanics of the game and allow your opponent to make enquiries about rules etc then you are absolutely in the clear with doing this. Isn't it odd, if someone used imperial SM to depict a recently turned chapter using chaos rules then no one would bat an eyelid, bu if you want to do it the other way around there is the chance of rumblings :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disciple of Caliban Sgt Posted November 26, 2013 Author Share Posted November 26, 2013 Thanks Tanith (great name by the way) I greatly appreciate the input was wanting to make sure it sounded as fun for another player to take on as it would for me to play. Yeah I was thinking from a fluff stand point kind of a small warband needing all the chaos help they could get. So nurgle starting to try and influence them but Khorne having a major role (maybe Khorne mark for Raptors and Lord) Some basic CSM with Nurgle Mark so they aren't completely Nurgled yet but heading that way. Toomany I do find that odd though if you could make it fit I'd love to play against it honestly. I just thought a BA gone to chaos theme would be kind of cool especially if they were "on the edge" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slayer le Boucher Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 Swap some heads and some arms with loyalist lapdogs, and you have a perfect "Noob-Rebels" Warband. If someone make a scene for that, just take the nearest chair or table or fridge, and smudger the moron to death with it, once you have a nice blend of colours and textures smearing the floor, you can stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 If someone make a scene for that, just take the nearest chair or table or fridge, and smudger the moron to death with it, once you have a nice blend of colours and textures smearing the floor, you can stop. And then you can start painting! :P Disciple - That sounds like a good plan, post some pictures if you will? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disciple of Caliban Sgt Posted November 27, 2013 Author Share Posted November 27, 2013 I most certainly will as soon as I get back to my stuff and get a chance to put it together..............little gold trim some red........ok lots of red and chaos and loyalists working together every peaceful fluffy imperials dream it'll be great muahahahahaha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disciple of Caliban Sgt Posted December 4, 2013 Author Share Posted December 4, 2013 So I have another question for me evil bretheren. What types of termi's would fit well and do well in an all around meta. Once again not looking for uber cheese or anything just a bit of a if you take these they should be decent unless your opponent knows you have them and list tailors. I was thinking of a ten main march up the middle with 2 Reapers 2 Chainfists and a variety of combi's (any help here would be greatly appreciated) also maybe a few set up with melta termicide should the need arise. But what marks etc? I was thinking Nurgle and since it is a Crimson Slaughter project of course Khorne came to mind. Would a dark alliance of khorne and nurgle be too out of touch? I know mono god isn't all that great. I know Tzeentech allows better Invul save I just figured sine my DA Deathwing always get torrented off the field an extra point of toughness would help as it sure helps my Deathwing Knights. So input please brothers what kind of termi set ups seem to work for all of you and what would go well with a BA/Crimson Slaughter chapter in your opinions? Also with the Ten man termi idea I figured having two units of about 15 - 16 CSM marching up the field with plasma and nurgle marks as well. Khorne would be represented by Zerkers or Raptors. Any and all input would help. No official list yet but anything you can toss my way would be appreciated. Thanks,DoC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillin Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 I would have no problem with it as long as you told me what you were doing before the game. Cool people should have no problem with it (don't know/doubt if you could do it in tourney)Some people just like to be difficult and will have a problem with it. That's why I like to find people to play house games with instead of stores ; the B&CS find a game section is great for finding people in your area, or at least finding the shops where people are laid back about stuff like that.. As someone(s) else kit-bashing with some csm/sm/and maybe some brzrkrs is definitely the way to go for what you want to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillin Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 I not a fan of walk-up termi's, too many things can happen to them on the way. Also a lot of people , including myself think the reaper is overpriced. DS them in, hvy flamer, some combi plaz or melta, maybe a PF or CF if it's a large squad. I don't put marks on them , I like to keep them cheap, but that's up to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disciple of Caliban Sgt Posted December 4, 2013 Author Share Posted December 4, 2013 I understand the HF for the Termi's I love doing that with my DA but the Reaper seemed to make sense walking. No one likes it? Just wondering if anyone can rate the Reaper for anything? Thanks,DoC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillin Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 I mean it's good for rino busting, it's just that's it's SO expensive. It cost the same as 5 combi-plaz ! And have to buy a full 10 termi's to get 2 reapers . Havocs, preds and even forgefiends are a cheaper way to get AC's. And walking just really not good for termi's, until you get to with in 12" it's just the reaper, the rest of the termi's really aren't doing anything. Also gives your enemy plenty of time to shoot them with ap 1 & 2 weapons. . I mean , give walking reaper termi's a try if you want, but I think you'll find it's a poor use of points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 Yeah have to agree with Chillin, they're really a waste of points. Super expensive and shorter range than a normal autocannon. You can only take 1 per 5 guys, so that really limits how many you can group together. If you're trying to make a fluffy termy unit (as in large, more than 3 in a unit) then I would go with a heavy flamer, a CF and combi plasmas. Most people will simply arm them with combi plas or melta and just deepstrike them near the enemy lines as a suicide unit because they're so cheap pointswise. I know its really dumb fluffwise but that's really the best use for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillin Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 yeah, that's exactly how I run them when I not doing termicide, combiplaz, havy flamer and chainfist. When I run termicide I justify it fluffwize by saying they DS in blow something up and DS back out, not that I'm sending 3 or 6 veteran-veterans in TDA to certain death every battle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 That's a good way to look at it from a fluff perspective chillin, I think I might steal that from you. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disciple of Caliban Sgt Posted December 5, 2013 Author Share Posted December 5, 2013 Thanks for the help guys. So combi plas unless you're trying to kill a tank then 3 with combi meltas? Not a huge fan of massive outfitting for melee but since they get the power weapons for free what do you guys recommend? 1 CF obviously, and I figure minimum 1 axe. I was thinking at least 1 sword for initiative murder (hopefully) and maybe a maul? I appreciate all the help so far. guess I'll leave the Reaper at home unless I'm playing a huge game with points to spare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillin Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 yeah, 1 CF if squad is 6 or more , otherwise don't bother. I not a fan of axe on termi's , for a few more pts you can get a PF , if you gonna go down to int 1 might as well get str.8 instead of str.5 , can wound MC's way ez'er then axe , insta-squish T.4 , and get a 2nd chance at damaging vehicles if CF miss. Not a fan of mauls only ap 4 . Can you think of anything in the game that you need the xtra 2 str. to wound that doesn't also have armor save of 3+ ?? IF you have the points maybe give the champ twin LC's , with those he has good chance of winning challenge and getting boon. The rest just PW's to keep int. and keep cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Yeah have to agree with Chillin, they're really a waste of points. Super expensive and shorter range than a normal autocannon. You can only take 1 per 5 guys, so that really limits how many you can group together. If you're trying to make a fluffy termy unit (as in large, more than 3 in a unit) then I would go with a heavy flamer, a CF and combi plasmas. Most people will simply arm them with combi plas or melta and just deepstrike them near the enemy lines as a suicide unit because they're so cheap pointswise. I know its really dumb fluffwise but that's really the best use for them. If they lived through stuff like they do in the Fluff, we wouldn't use them as Termicide. And if we could deep strike plague marines or Chosen or SpecialHavoks, we'd suicide them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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