Space Wolves/Marines diet

[Kasper_Hawser]

Hi all. First off, this is not a question of what Wolves like to eat. We all know that: huge roasts of virtually every animal on Fenris (save the wolves and trolls) and mjord, a beverage which apparently includes alcohol, petroleum and other alchemical properties that will virtually melt the insides of any normal human.

 

Been wondering awhile about this. Given their huge size and metabolism, it would seem natural that they would require huge amounts of food to maintain that. Yet they are also Space Marines. They're expected to fight for long periods of time (years/decades even)without proper supply lines, the Raven Guard being the prime examples of this.

 

Question then is, do Space Marines actually HAVE to eat/drink a lot to sustain themselves? I mean, looking at all the nineteen implants (excluding geneseed) they receive, you have to wonder how the hell they're maintaining all that without some sort of special diet. Most of the twenty implants basically enhance organs that are already there or place redundant ones, such as the third lung, the secondary heart, Occulobe, Lyman's ears etc. The rest are extra organs that make Space Marines do things that normal humans can't do even if they tried, such as spitting venom, remembering memories of what you eat, interfacing with armour (black carapace) and others.

 

To compound matters of the Space Wolves, they also have the Canis Hellix to contend with. Blood Angels also have the Black Rage as well. Both of which makes a Space Marine even more ferocious and stronger. Again, another increase need for nutrition to sustain all that

 

I notice that in regards to power armour, there is such thing as nutrient reservoir which supposedly allows a Space Marine to fight endlessly without needing to eat and sleep.

 

To summarize:

 

1) Do Space Marines have to eat a lot?

2) If they do, what do they have to eat then? What is actually in the nutrient reservoir?

3) If they don't, how do they maintain their metabolism outside their power armour?

[Bryan Blaire]

I think you are asking for a whole lot harder sci-fi than this game is actually built on.

 

I think this is the only question that would/could be answered found within your post for Warhammer 40K:

Question then is, do Space Marines actually HAVE to eat/drink a lot to sustain themselves?

I think presumably the answer would be "Not that we've actually been shown."

[Max_Dammit]

In one of the Ragnar books this is addressed, they are on a ork planet with some Inquisition and he tels how they are starting to look week and ill fed, his brothers are having trouble in this as well but as they can eat everything, even sticks (as is described in a other book of ragnar), they still have there strength up.

[Kasper_Hawser]

You are refering to the William King series about Ragnar Blackmane's rise? I read the first book but found the style of writing rather....... tame. I won't say childish but after reading the unconventional styles of ADB and Dan Abnett, his style of writing is far too straightforward, and Ragnar came off rather like a Mary Sue.

Anyway back to the topic, you are saying that Ragnar's pack actually foraged for edible vegetation on the Ork infested planet? Weird image in my mind, Space Wolves eating their greens.

Still, as I am insinuating, a Space Marine would have to eat a few elk's to maintain his huge body and metabolism daily. But it seems that while they do have large apetites, they don't really eat an abnormal amount of food compared to normal armies. An oversight by GW in designing the Space marines I think. They really should have put something that regulates their metabolism so that they don't outeat whole armies or able to sustain themselves over long periods of time even without the nutrients stored in their power armour. Or simply state that their digestive system is so comprehensive and efficient that even with with a normal human's amount of food, they use it much more efficiently until it can sustain their huge growth.

Just wanted to have an interesting discussion on this, I know GW doesn't base a lot of its sci-fi principles on real life stuff. Look at another aspect of Space MArine life we may never have given much though to.

And as far as Space Wolves go, I don't believe they spend every single day even as Blood Claws on eating and drinking binges. They've got training and missions too, not to mention they're occasional lone hunts.

[Growler67]

Even in Steve Parkers "Deathwatch", there is some rudimentary porridge/gruel they consume at their communal mess/galley that takes care of their "needs" while training up at the Watch Fortress.  In other readings, Space Marines can eat virtually anything to sustain themselves, even rotting/rotted meat as their implants can deal with any toxins they may ingest.  Feasting in the Great Hall is probably done to mark significant occasions and likely NOT an every evening affair.  That they deploy with a few tubes of repair cement to make field expedient repairs to their armor as well as a few tubes of nutritional paste to sustain themselves when deployed and potentially cut off from supply lines has also been written about in the Ragnar Saga (Omnibus).

 

Maintaining a fair and respectable distance from reality while within the 40K Universe is advised.  I have recently had to remind others on another forum that direct comparison to existing military technology is a moot arguement because the 40K Universe is make believe and to make such direct comparisons is futile and nonsensical.  Case in point....tanks and fighting vehicles today have stabilized turrets and can fire on the move....in 40K they HAVE to stop to fire.  The arguement on the other forum was related to Sniper Rifles.

 

Rudimentary paste in tubes are NOT that dissimilar to how current astronauts consume their meals and should a Space Marine be in a low gravity environment when the opportunity to take a meal break arrose, tube form would be the most practical rather than breaking out a mess kit and having ones meals float away.  That they "need" to sustain themselves and their systems is all that is required until logistical support can provide a greater level of replenishment and repair.  Would it be out of the realm of possibility to kill some local animal when deployed to feed themselves....no it would not, but more to maintain their meager supplies (tubes of paste) for as long as they can rather than run out early on and suffer for it later if their resupply is delayed for any reason.  Practicality and necessity have to be weighed and choices have to intelligently be made when deployed.  When in garrison things are a bit looser but IMHO, the granf feast in the Great Halls is NOT an everyday occurance.

[Nadir]

In the far future it will be not very uncommon to eat artificial food and supplements. And that kind of food can be restored in small boxes or tanks bulit in the power armor.

[Leif-thunderstand]

Iam with Nadir on that. I think this is the main reason for their backpacks. The airslots are for keeping the artifical spacemarinefood dry and fresh. And reasoned to the extreme metabolism a creature would have with two hearts, an multible Lungs, an musclegrowsytem (that maybe woul be a need of reasoned to both first told extras would even alone boost the metabolism extremly so they would get weak preety fast if they got not enoght food) .... Only this thre things on theyr own would burn that much kcal(Or Kj if you like) : the lungs would burn 12times like a normal lung - the double heart would not just count double but 8times (reasoned to they must be cupled in line for letting them wor togetter) the musclegainer would let the muscles burn lower when they work, but constantly 1/4 of the workburn in minimum (where system grows with the helix it would be 1/4 to a Claw and 3/8 to a young hunter ...and so on) so now the helix on it self just boosts the metabolism 10 times .....

Even the helix alone would give them to burn 7times of the Gda : 14000 kcal instead of 2000 is a diferece in my opinion. .....

 

Thats why its artifical food for diet. Normal food like steaks are just for theyr enjoiment.

[Growler67]

Iam with Nadir on that. I think this is the main reason for their backpacks. The airslots are for keeping the artifical spacemarinefood dry and fresh. And reasoned to the extreme metabolism a creature would have with two hearts, an multible Lungs, an musclegrowsytem (that maybe woul be a need of reasoned to both first told extras would even alone boost the metabolism extremly so they would get weak preety fast if they got not enoght food) .... Only this thre things on theyr own would burn that much kcal(Or Kj if you like) : the lungs would burn 12times like a normal lung - the double heart would not just count double but 8times (reasoned to they must be cupled in line for letting them wor togetter) the musclegainer would let the muscles burn lower when they work, but constantly 1/4 of the workburn in minimum (where system grows with the helix it would be 1/4 to a Claw and 3/8 to a young hunter ...and so on) so now the helix on it self just boosts the metabolism 10 times .....

Even the helix alone would give them to burn 7times of the Gda : 14000 kcal instead of 2000 is a diferece in my opinion. .....

 

Thats why its artifical food for diet. Normal food like steaks are just for theyr enjoiment.

 

I disagree with your assessment of the backpacks.  I believe it is to house the power system to run the sensors and servos of the Power Armor.  Sure there may be small compartments for storage, but the primary function is to power the suit and environmental systems in a sealed environment (open space such as on a space hulk) and provide additional filtration for toxic atmospheric conditions.  Scout packs are smaller because they do not need to power servos and sensors directly (Armor).  They do provide a means of additional filtration I imagine and can power external/deployable sensors and comms equipment but Scouts are very mobile units and so these items need to be small, quick to set up and take down and lightweight to minimize encumbrance during deployment/missions.

 

Again, any direct correlation to current/existing technology, military or physiological, must be suspended to a degree as the 40K real is in fact make believe.  Yes there has to be SOME basis in relative fact to make things seem at least plausible, but we are not dissecting the calorie requirements of a given Space Marine compared to what is offered in their nutritional supplements.....that information to a specific degree has just NOT been published by GW AFAIK.

[Grimtooth]

Look to First Heretic in which some World Bearers stranded in a warpstorm at the Eye of Terror eat the dead and even some of their own brothers to just barely survive as they come out looking like scarecrows basically.

[Leif-thunderstand]

My words are no gw fluff - this is just how i imagine spacemariens metabolism. I took the vew things i know about diet and medicine and those things we actualy got as gw fluff in any sm/chapter codex.

With theyr backpacks i imagine thry got some clorophylcontainer inside for breathing on places even theyr multilungs wouldnt do. (like in vacuum) they also got extra ammo and stuff inside. And also food. Maybee i was a bit hungry when i told it would be the main reason. *g*

[Denison512]

Their Backpacks actually contain a small plasma reactor! thats why there are so many vents, to stop the damn thing from exploding when it gets to hot haha thats why if you the guys on rhino turrets don't have backpacks and have a wire running from their suit into the rhino as they use the vehicles power source.

As for food, as its been said before marines can virtually live off anything thats edible. you've got to consider that marines are used for shock assault tactics primarily and thus are going to be followed by flood supplies shortly. They also have a nutrient reservoir which, ummm, recycles their "food"

If you've played Dark Heresy its not uncommon for you to have to eat recycled food especially on star voyages just down to the complexities of keeping it for any length of time.

[Kasper_Hawser]

OK, so from the opinions I'm getting:

 

1) They can eat anything with a hint of nutrients due to their extreme digestive systems (forgot what was the name of the enhanced stomach they get)

2) They DON'T need to eat that much, at least not as much as three aurorchs (large buffalo size cows)

3) For long term engagements, the nutrient packs in their backpacks can probably sustain them a long time if Shrike and the Raven Guard are any indication.

 

Growler, appreciate your thoughts. Bear in mind I have no intention of disecting the science down to the minute detail like the exact calories needed by a Space Marine, nor am I going to extrapolate one by comparing to real life examples. I just want to discuss this from a fun layman perspective. And you are right, according to old and new codexes, the backpack is primarily the power generator for the power armour to provide the enhanced strength and internal systems of the armour. This even contains solar cells that can be recharged if needed. The Nutrient pack is mentioned in brief only.

[Valerian]

Maybe this'll work

V

[Leif-thunderstand]

Sorry if it doesnt sounded like a fun layman perspective.

Thx to dension and valerian. Funny thing is: even two weeks ago i thaugt about a foodrecycler would suit it ... But found it kinda nasty.

I didn't play dark hersy yet. But plasmareactors just hit the powersytem what was in my mind for theyr pa(reasoned to dawn of war).

[BrotherJim]

Jeez that looks cool, the picture is so little though...

 

proteins shakes anyone?

 

lambas bread? (the elvish stuff)

 

Flesh Eaters?

 

In regards to Space Wolves, i've been musing about this lately, from a laymans point of view. What I have been thinking is that, there must been 3 classes of wolves on Fenris. First the ruddy brown types, these are a pest, wild and feral things, at best they could be tamed as dogs would be. These ruddy brown wolves are the ones the Space Wolves slaughter wholesale, for food, making of pelts, wolf talisman, wolfy wolf wolfs everywhere.

The next type, is the grey/black type. these are intelligent, loyal, wolf dream brothers. the type that the space wolf would bond with and hunt with, seeing what he sees and smelling what  he smells. these are the fenrisan wolves take the Space Wolves take into battle with them.

the last is the most noble, the White Wolf. They say that there are no wolves on Fenris, but lets not go into that now.

 

I really like the idea of the back pack being a plasma reactor, ive always thought of it as an integral part of the space marine suit. I like the idea that a space marine can take his suit off, and the idea of the black carapace. In my mind a space marine would be hardwired into his suit, his helmet would have a "HUD" (heads up display)

like in halo, giving him all of his information, regarding health, weapons, nav points etc. chances are he would lose his helmet and still receive all of this information, but you know, in his brain. 

and each warriors would customise his suit to meet his needs, to further boost his strength agility etc if he were to pick up a heavy weapon he could adjust his suit to compensate for the extra weight, so he can just swing it about wily nily

 

getting back on topic, you have to remember this is the grim darkness of the far future, you keep what you kill.

haha but also i think they would just have some kind of future super food that gives them all their nutrients and they just each get a ration pack to last time the mission, with supplies incoming. and perhaps their biological make up can somehow store the proteins nutrients etc, only releasing them where nessesary.

 

i think in battle they would just be running on pure adrenaline.

 

lastly in prospero burns, the space wolves aren't described as being overly muscular, but rather tall and lean muscle.

 

can people see the picture but not me? gah!

[Growler67]

From the Wiki a full sized image here:  http://static2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130908012453/warhammer40k/images/8/84/Power_Armour_Schematic.jpg

[BrotherJim]

cool thanks

 

I like that. I was a bit put off by the spikes on the boots, but I suppose these are for extra grip on the battlefield, not for stomping face.

[Growler67]

Jeez that looks cool, the picture is so little though...

 

proteins shakes anyone?

 

lambas bread? (the elvish stuff)

 

Flesh Eaters?

 

In regards to Space Wolves, i've been musing about this lately, from a laymans point of view. What I have been thinking is that, there must been 3 classes of wolves on Fenris. First the ruddy brown types, these are a pest, wild and feral things, at best they could be tamed as dogs would be. These ruddy brown wolves are the ones the Space Wolves slaughter wholesale, for food, making of pelts, wolf talisman, wolfy wolf wolfs everywhere.

The next type, is the grey/black type. these are intelligent, loyal, wolf dream brothers. the type that the space wolf would bond with and hunt with, seeing what he sees and smelling what  he smells. these are the fenrisan wolves take the Space Wolves take into battle with them.

the last is the most noble, the White Wolf. They say that there are no wolves on Fenris, but lets not go into that now.

 

I really like the idea of the back pack being a plasma reactor, ive always thought of it as an integral part of the space marine suit. I like the idea that a space marine can take his suit off, and the idea of the black carapace. In my mind a space marine would be hardwired into his suit, his helmet would have a "HUD" (heads up display)

like in halo, giving him all of his information, regarding health, weapons, nav points etc. chances are he would lose his helmet and still receive all of this information, but you know, in his brain. 

and each warriors would customise his suit to meet his needs, to further boost his strength agility etc if he were to pick up a heavy weapon he could adjust his suit to compensate for the extra weight, so he can just swing it about wily nily

 

getting back on topic, you have to remember this is the grim darkness of the far future, you keep what you kill.

haha but also i think they would just have some kind of future super food that gives them all their nutrients and they just each get a ration pack to last time the mission, with supplies incoming. and perhaps their biological make up can somehow store the proteins nutrients etc, only releasing them where nessesary.

 

i think in battle they would just be running on pure adrenaline.

 

lastly in prospero burns, the space wolves aren't described as being overly muscular, but rather tall and lean muscle.

 

can people see the picture but not me? gah!

 

You liken "classes of wolves" more like a D&D color sort.  I disagree in that there are size classes if you will as pelts can vary in color from individual to individual much like the terran canid species.  There are the "run of the mill" variety but would be pressed to call them "vermin".  There are the larger variety of which Ragnar Blackmane is said to have slain as it was far larger than the average wolf of the wilds.  Then at a minimum there are the giant (size) Thunderwolves that are used by the Space Wolves as cavalry mounts.  Though there are likely more sub-species running around in the vastness that is Fenris, it hasn't been anything of specific import for GW to have written a detailed and all encompassing compendium of the indigenous fauna.

 

The companions of our Primarch are said to have been proportionately larger than most of the familiar canids of Terra.  Geri and Freki were said to be the aproximately 2-3 times the size of their earthly contemporaries and the mosterous black wolf that Ragnar slew was nearly the size of a terran horse.  Thunderwolves are quite a bit larger than terran horses to be able to support a Space Marine in power armor.

 

 

BACK ON TOPIC....

The image I linked should put this to rest sufficiently as the smaller version provided earlier is far too small to read the details and descriptions.  More on the specifics at the Wiki link also provided.

[Pariah Mk.231]

I really like the idea of the back pack being a plasma reactor, ive always thought of it as an integral part of the space marine suit. I like the idea that a space marine can take his suit off, and the idea of the black carapace. In my mind a space marine would be hardwired into his suit, his helmet would have a "HUD" (heads up display)

like in halo, giving him all of his information, regarding health, weapons, nav points etc. chances are he would lose his helmet and still receive all of this information, but you know, in his brain. 

 

I've seen a few sources that state that the marine's HUD is actually projected onto his iris by an ocular implant, and he can cycle the information he's viewing by focusing and using slight eye movements, so he doesn't actually need his helmet for that purpose.

[Kasper_Hawser]

Bear in mind that it is not just armour, it is POWER ARMOUR. The full details you can refer to warhammer wiki, but suffice to say that it is more than just metal covering the skin. The armour does everything to ensure that the wearer can function in any environment and any situation, no matter how inhospitable or dire. So it has an oxygen supply for void war. At the most basic it interfaces with the Astartes skin so that he can essentially "feel" the environment through the armour instead of being spatially displaced by the extra bulk. The shoulder pauldrons are specifically shaped to minimize damage from artillery, mortars and direct fire which is why it is so disproportionately huge, giving the Astartes their distinct shape. The suit also regulates their tempreture, again to adapt to inhospitable environment. And the helmet also has a very functional HUD with multiple types of visions which can be changed with a single thought, again through black carapace. And the entire suit is also a complex system of muscle fibres which also acts to enhance the strength of a Space Marine even more than he already is.

 

All of which needs power to operate and that is the primary function of the backpack. The nutrient pack is also mentioned as a small component of the backpack, not the essential function. So it seems to me that despite their huge metabolism, they are still capable of eating minimal amounts and still maintain their strength in long engagements. Worst come to worst, they forage for stuff that is normally inedible to humans.

 

Jimmy, not sure where you got the 3 classes of wolves from. As far as Codex is concerned, only Blackmane wolves and Thunderwolf are specifically mentioned, both of which are the size equal or greater than a terran horse. Other wolves are still said to be the size of horses.

 

Actually this question would be easily answered if Games Workshop decided to learn from Frank Herbert's Dune. The Fremen who live in the desert weart stillsuits which essentially recycles their body water, including human waste, to extend their water supply. Granted it doesn't recyle their waste into food, but I think we can all agree that humans survive far longer with just water than with food. As distasteful as that might be, the power armour recycling the refuse into nutrients might be derived from the Dune principle.

 

I think the answer may be far more simple: efficient digestion. For all we know, Astartes may not even need to go to the loo everyday, they really use up everything they eat.

[Kasper_Hawser]

BTW Jimmy, it is "Lembas" bread, not Lambas bread. Special order have to go to Lothlorien, provided your messengers don't get lost or simply don't come back due to the beauty of Galadriel. (Not Cate Blachett) Apparently enough to satisfy even Hobbit appetites, which are said to take seven full meals a day. (Breakfast, second breakfast, Nuncheon, Lunch, Afternoon tea, dinner, supper)

 

LOL, maybe we should equate Hobbit appetites to the Astartes. That would be weird.

[BrotherJim]

yes sorry folks, I should have been more specific. the classes of wolves was just something I totally made up when I paint my minis. It bothers me that so many wolves died to fancy up my space wolves. so the brown ones are everywhere, wolf pelts wolf teeth wolf skulls. have you counted how many wolf skulls are in a space wolves box?

but in the case of my heroes, I paint them black/grey to show that they were fenrisian wolf that died fighting or saving my lord, so now he wears its pelt to honour it.

 

not keen on the idea of twc at all.

[Leif-thunderstand]

Where i once read that Greyhunters are named so cause they have to kill a greywolf and bring the grey pelt as trophy. And this was original fluff. So your not that wrong with jimmy

[Kasper_Hawser]

yes sorry folks, I should have been more specific. the classes of wolves was just something I totally made up when I paint my minis. It bothers me that so many wolves died to fancy up my space wolves. so the brown ones are everywhere, wolf pelts wolf teeth wolf skulls. have you counted how many wolf skulls are in a space wolves box?

but in the case of my heroes, I paint them black/grey to show that they were fenrisian wolf that died fighting or saving my lord, so now he wears its pelt to honour it.

 

not keen on the idea of twc at all.

 

A little off topic but  just curious, have you read Thousand Sons or Prospero Burns? Both insinuate something on the origins of the wolves giving rise to the Blackmane and Thunderwolf we know today.

 

Personally I think the Space Wolves are entitled to a craze death star unit that is the Thunderwolf Cav. And yeah, I like to think that ALL the fenrisian wolves who fight with the Vlka Fenryka are considered as battle brothers, not simply meat shields. The fact that much of their iconography and ornaments are made from wolf remains to me, shows how many wolves fought and died together with the chapter.

 

I can't remember, but did Ragnar actually eat the Blackmane that attacked him? I know he skinned it and wears it until today, but I can't remember before that.

[BrotherJim]

I feel like im on the titanic, you know its going bad, but

 

yeah mate I've read prospero burns and im half way through a thousand sons.

 

no need to get your knickers in a knot. I like the idea that all dem skulls have come from dead wolves. like I said I was thinking while I was painting, I ran a search and couldn't find any brown/bone wolves, only black/grey/white, I had already painted 2000pts worth in brown/bone.

 

so I made up some fluff.

 

I thought that's what this hobby was about?

 

There weren't any thunder wolves around when I was a kid...

 

just don't like the models is all, they look mangy, not nearly regal enough.

 

 

back on topic, when I was working out I was eating 6-7 meals a day, and I was full, all the time, and sore. and broke. no chance of reacting quickly, or fighting, I don't see space marines being build like arnie (pumping iron era) or maybe their metabolism is geared to support muscle growth.

 

just my humble opinion though

 

didn't mean to piss on your gospel