Cypher and VotLW

[RolandTHTG]

Veterans of the Long War (gives +1 leadership and Hatred (Space marines)  is usually of marginal utility on Chaos lords, as they are LD 10 to start with, so they only get 1/2 the bonus of the rule.

However, if you have Cypher in your army, he gives your Warlord -1LD. Does the VotLW counters this leaving the Lord at 10, or would Cypher's rule take priority and take him down to LD 9?

[Nusquam]

Good question. Best I can recall is when two state modifiers are applied, roll off to see which applies first, like the FAQ example as the case with wraith whip coils and banshee masks.

 

So if VotLW wins the roll, Ld10+1=Ld10 then Cypher Ld10-1=Ld9

 

or vice versa Cypher Ld10-1=9 then VotLW Ld9+1=Ld10

[hisdudeness]

Either way The Lord would stay Ld 10. Just because a stat is 10 doesn't mean the +1 doesn't get applied, it just doesn't increase the stat but it still there.

[shandwen]

There are some other spots in the game where modifiers are put in order by whom ever's turn it is, but i would lean towards what hisdudeness said.

[Dam13n]

You have Ld10

+1 and -1 = +0

No stat above 10 is a set modifier so would apply last anyway.

[Venemox]

And this is how a generic Chaos Lord ends up with a higher Ld than Abbadon, Huron,  Ahriman, Typhus, Lucius, and Fabius.

[Quixus]

And this is how a generic Chaos Lord ends up with a higher Ld than Abbadon, Huron, Ahriman, Typhus, Lucius, and Fabius.

Probably G'nerik never met Cypher and does not feel his leadership skills are inadequate compared to this legendary character.

He just sees an old guy with two pistols and a dress.

[Redtoof]

And this is how a generic Chaos Lord ends up with a higher Ld than Abbadon, Huron,  Ahriman, Typhus, Lucius, and Fabius.

 

I don't get this. I thought all those characters also had VotLW as well? Or are we assuming the bonus has already been included, and they all have a 'basic' leadership of 9?

[FENRISÚLFUR]

 

And this is how a generic Chaos Lord ends up with a higher Ld than Abbadon, Huron,  Ahriman, Typhus, Lucius, and Fabius.

 

I don't get this. I thought all those characters also had VotLW as well? Or are we assuming the bonus has already been included, and they all have a 'basic' leadership of 9?

Normally if a special rule gives a model a stat bump the rule will say (x has already been included in the models profile). I would guess that the named IC's would have a base 10 ld -1 per Cypher and then +1 per VotLW. Best way to handle it in my opinion would be to ask your opponent for casual play or a TO in a competitive setting.

[FENRISÚLFUR]

So I just went back and checked VotLW as it related to special characters (Abaddon specifically) and it does say in the digital codex that the +1 is already included in his profile. So in the case of Cypher I will back track and say that the the special characters with VotLW would drop down to Ld 9. As for the non-special characters that one is still a topic for discussion, as they are base ld 10.

[Venemox]

Any character with 

 

 

 

And this is how a generic Chaos Lord ends up with a higher Ld than Abbadon, Huron,  Ahriman, Typhus, Lucius, and Fabius.

 

I don't get this. I thought all those characters also had VotLW as well? Or are we assuming the bonus has already been included, and they all have a 'basic' leadership of 9?

Normally if a special rule gives a model a stat bump the rule will say (x has already been included in the models profile). I would guess that the named IC's would have a base 10 ld -1 per Cypher and then +1 per VotLW. Best way to handle it in my opinion would be to ask your opponent for casual play or a TO in a competitive setting.

Way back on page 30 of C;CSM 'When Veterans of the Long War is listed in a unit's special rules, the Leadership increase will already ha\e been taken into account in its profile.'

 

So the named IC's with VoTLW have LD 10, already counting the VotLW bump.  You dopn't get to count it twice.

[RolandTHTG]

So basically, he lowers Named characters, but doesn't affect guys that you buy it for.

Heh, guess it means they don't know enough to be worried.

[FENRISÚLFUR]

What I find interesting about this is that named characters, who have been killing for 10,000 years, are weaker willed then some upstart chaos lord who just recently embraced the powers of chaos.

[Quixus]

What I find interesting about this is that named characters, who have been killing for 10,000 years, are weaker willed then some upstart chaos lord who just recently embraced the powers of chaos.

See TJWyrm's post. It's somewhat like CSM vs SM. The loyalists have not seen enough of the ruinous powers to fear them and thus still have ATSKNF.