Valaskjalf Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 Hey guys Im very interested in adding a BL ally to my Chaos force, mostly for the additional Oblits and the Skull of Ker'ngar on my Jump Sorcerer. Was wondering if any of you have made use of the Artifacts - all good and well reading about them in the supplement reviews but would like to know how they performed for you in some of the games you've played. Thanks! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285149-experiences-with-black-legion-supplement/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
crucial Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 They sound tasty but I dont own the dex. Be interesting to see if people have used them or not! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285149-experiences-with-black-legion-supplement/#findComment-3558611 Share on other sites More sharing options...
abadizzle Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Hell yeah! I'm a big fan of the BL supplement. I rarely get to play so haven't used it as often as I'd like- but I played against ravager/venom heavy DE using an 'eye of the night' warpsmith and a gunline (a very unspectacular and truly boring army list for me unfortunately) and got a turn one night fight ravager and radier explosion... Pretty neat. In another game I squared off w a jacked iron hands chapter master w my kerngar and spineshiver prince (who got IWND warlord trait) this turned out to be the most epic warlord duel I've ever had. Both characters regenerated wounds and fought to the last wound- with my prince coming out the victor! He then swooped over to smash-murder a librarian in termi armor. Great memorable battle. Even though I don't always use the BL supplement I certainly never leave home without it! The altar of war missions seem like great fun too! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285149-experiences-with-black-legion-supplement/#findComment-3558731 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnightmare Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Can the Skull and Spineshiver Blade both be taken at the same time? I ask this because I am thinking of running my BL using the supplement (but haven't bought it yet) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285149-experiences-with-black-legion-supplement/#findComment-3558903 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 It is extremely debatable. By my reading, no, a character can take only a single artifact. Then again, it's not totally clear whether non-weapon artifacts count towards that limit - thoughI myself can't see why they wouldn't. I always tend towards the most conservative rules interpretation unless there's clear precedent yo the contrary, as I take a poor view of those who would deliberately take advantage of unclear wording to get an edge over their friends in a toy soldiers game. I'm guessing that we will never see another faq, so ask other players at your local venue how they read it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285149-experiences-with-black-legion-supplement/#findComment-3558938 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valaskjalf Posted January 2, 2014 Author Share Posted January 2, 2014 Hmm Ive been thinking of that myself - My understanding has always been that with Artifacts there can be only one (of EACH) per army as there are only one of each in the galaxy so that is pretty clear-cut.About having more than one Artifact on a model - As long as only one of these Artifacts are weapons I dont see why you won't be able to. Why would you no be able to have a Sorcerer with the "Last Memory" Spell and the Spineshiver Blade? Replace the Force Weapon and have one less spell you have to roll for on the Psychic table - totally makes sense.All the Artifacts come at a hefty price so I think the drawback would obviously be that you are putting a ton of points into a single model. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285149-experiences-with-black-legion-supplement/#findComment-3558958 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 I dont see any stuff saying you can only take one in each army, and as long as that isnt in the description in such clear words i can take multiple artifacts. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285149-experiences-with-black-legion-supplement/#findComment-3559032 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 You can take multiple per army, but only one of each, and only one per character, though it is arguable whether non-weapon artifacts count towards the one-per-character limit. You could take advantage of unclear wording to argue that artifacts that don't replace weapons don't count towards the one per character limit, but if you're going to rules lawyer for advantage, your opponents would be justified in pointing out that none of the Black Legion non-weapon artifacts actually got the note saying they don't replace a weapon, so if you're trying to rules lawyer it then all that results in is the skull of kernegar replacing a weapon as well, so you still couldn't take it with the spineshiver sword, especially on a prince, who only has one weapon to replace. In the end it mostly just comes down to convention at your local venue, but I wouldn't do it myself, not without some faq or other official clarification okaying it, and good luck waiting for that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285149-experiences-with-black-legion-supplement/#findComment-3559047 Share on other sites More sharing options...
abadizzle Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 I agree about multiple weapon artefacts per character being a no-no- but the non-weapon ones are fine to stack in my gaming group. Until a FAQ (never) its best to ask first. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285149-experiences-with-black-legion-supplement/#findComment-3559073 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gumo9 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 I've used the Black Legion supplement a few times now and really enjoyed it. On each occasion I have used BL as my main army with biker Lord and chaos bikers as allies so that the Lord could use burning brand. I'm not interested in power lists, just using units that I think might be interesting or challenging. With my BL I even tried a sorceror with "last memory" running with warp talons. Worked brilliantly I have to say and was the unit of the match for this game against ultras. I will be trying this combo again soon. I also got great use from three units of chosen, max flamers, max plasma and max melta. I used them against appropriate targets and sustained very few losses against my daemon opponent. By internet standards my lists are darkest heresy. But seeing as i play chaos, do you think that bothers me ?!? Really enjoyed the BL supplement from both a fluff and play point of view. Highly recommended. Enjoy ! G Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285149-experiences-with-black-legion-supplement/#findComment-3559104 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minionboy Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 I love the black legion supplement, the skull is alright, though pricy and possibly locks you out of other options, but really for me it's the Last Memory that seals the deal... stick that on a bike or disk and swiftly move around blasting apart your opponents infantry. This has been immensely helpful against hordes of infantry, or even better, lots of smaller units of them (i.e. pathfinders, spawned gaunts, etc.). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285149-experiences-with-black-legion-supplement/#findComment-3559956 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillin Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 If you use the BL supplement do you still have to use the stupid must challenge rule ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285149-experiences-with-black-legion-supplement/#findComment-3560191 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 What does the last memory do exactly? Don't have the supplement but if its artifacts are worth it then I might get it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285149-experiences-with-black-legion-supplement/#findComment-3560202 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dammeron Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 The Last Memory provides an extra psychic level (making Chaos the only army that can have generic level 4psykers) and an obligatory nova power that can be powered by up to three warp dice, each dice adding to its effective range. The potential for taking out horde armies or doing mass damage to more heavily armoured forces is quite significant. The only down side is that, if your sorcerer miscasts whilst attempting to manifest the power with mutliple dice, he dies. But that's what Spell Familiars are for! Oh, and the new Tyranids are goiing to hate it; with a little considered use, it could effectively scorch the very heart out of a Tyranid force. As for the supplement itself, after reading it, I couldn't resist creating an allied force of Children of Torment for my Severed Angels. I tend to go all out fluff rather than competitive, so the force largely consists of a core of two Chosen squads, each with six models, mark of Slaanesh, Icon of Excess...the full works. I've gone for mass plasma weapons in each and rhinos for transport, along with sorcerers to bolster them with psychic powers. Expensive, making for a very small force all round, but looks great and lots of fun to play. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285149-experiences-with-black-legion-supplement/#findComment-3560317 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 But that's what Spell Familiars are for! does the BL codex have them listed as an option ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285149-experiences-with-black-legion-supplement/#findComment-3560359 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornywingythingy Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Have run CSM primary with black legion secondary, in my spawn rush list, running two sorcerers, one with last memory, which I didn't find too useful TBH, I play in a tau heavy meta, and almost everything tau have are immune to blind. The ability to take 2 squads of nurgle spawn and two baledrakes was very nice though, and 2x2 nurgle oblits with double maulerfiends. Basically allowed me to overwhelm my opponents list both times. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285149-experiences-with-black-legion-supplement/#findComment-3560365 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 I play mostly single dex Black Legion, but have mostly played very small games since its release so I don't have a lot of detailed first hand experience to relate. I can say that the spineshiver sword is just what you would expect it to be - great against infantry or squad leaders, a waste of time against terminators, MCs, or especially in duals with other ICs. That, and the eye of night is too pricey for what it does, and rather painfully hampered by first turn night fight, but on occasion you'll pull off a first turn assassination of a land raider which I can certainly say makes you feel like a badass. I've only run it on a backfield warpsmith so far, but it's probably better on a bike mounted lord for the ability to move & shoot it. If we had teleport homers I'd try it on a deep striking terminator character, but we don't, so I won't. I haven't suffered all that much from the vets requirement, but that's because most of the units I've run since getting the supplement get the upgrade for one point, so it's at least ok on them (CSMs, bikes, havocs). I have not run troop chosen yet in an actual game, I'm waiting for my conversions to be done to unveil them, so no commentary there, but the vets will be more painful on them when I do run them. I haven't tested out the BoD with abby yet, or played terminators under the supplement at all, as I know my luck with unassisted deep strikes from playing with the parent book, and the one thing such units don't need is to cost even more points, so I can throw even more of my list in the garbage pail when they mishap and die or arrive in a far corner of the table. I found EW on the prince wasn't that big a deal - most of the opponents I run against weren't instant killing it anyway, just killing it through its four wounds normal style - and in no way made up for the loss of offensive power that came from dropping the black mace. That's about it for first hand experience comments so far. I have not run the memory yet, but look forward to the chance to try it out somewhere down the line. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285149-experiences-with-black-legion-supplement/#findComment-3560450 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 If you use the BL supplement do you still have to use the stupid must challenge rule ? Yes, Black Legion Chaos Space Marines, like Vanilla Chaos Space Marine believe they are Black Templars, and much accept any challenge, no matter the odds. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285149-experiences-with-black-legion-supplement/#findComment-3560530 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dammeron Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 But that's what Spell Familiars are for! does the BL codex have them listed as an option ? All options available to the core Chaos Space Marine list are also available in those created using the Black Legion supplement, with the exception of Artefacts and Warlord Traits, which must be taken from the supplement itself. Spell Familiars are just standard Chaos Rewards. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285149-experiences-with-black-legion-supplement/#findComment-3560565 Share on other sites More sharing options...
crucial Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Can you have a black legion force led by Khârn or typhus for example? Does their warlord trait from the normal dex carry over? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285149-experiences-with-black-legion-supplement/#findComment-3561017 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slayer le Boucher Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Wait..,...where in the Codex does it says that a character can only have ONE artifact?... The only thing i see is that an Artifact weapon replace a CCW the character has,...and thats it, nowhere does it say, or let you assume that you cant take 2 Artifacts on one character... or did i miss something. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285149-experiences-with-black-legion-supplement/#findComment-3561036 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valaskjalf Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 Wait..,...where in the Codex does it says that a character can only have ONE artifact?... The only thing i see is that an Artifact weapon replace a CCW the character has,...and thats it, nowhere does it say, or let you assume that you cant take 2 Artifacts on one character... or did i miss something. I think the argument is more that you cant have any duplicates of one Artifact in one army - thats the only limitation I know of or think is valid. Just look at the SM codex and how many CMs you see with the Burning Blade AND Shield Eternal - Both of them are Chapter Relics and if they're allowed to have 2 Relics on a Character, them Im not going to back down from putting Putting a Spineshiver Blade, Skull Ker'ngar and Last Memory on a Sorcerer. Only one of those are actual physical Weapons - After some deliberating thats the conclution I came up with. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285149-experiences-with-black-legion-supplement/#findComment-3561046 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valaskjalf Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 Just another thing, I know this is a rules question which probably doesn't belong here but it seems relevant:The Last Memory's (Sunburst) profile shows it as S4 AP5 as well as the Blind special rule....does that mean that if, i.e you roll 2D6 and get 10 hits that everyone hit should do both a Blind test AND take an armour save? If I understand it correctly the Nova autohits everything in the set ranges (6/12 or 18) - but if they must Automatically take a T test, why does the power also have a Strength value as well? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285149-experiences-with-black-legion-supplement/#findComment-3561139 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Doyok Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 It is the same Sunburst psychic power from the Pyromancy Discipline, just that we can up the range to 12/18 inches. There is no T test. If you are in range of the nova, then suffer 2D6 S4 auto hits, make saves, and then do the I check to avoid the Blind effect. It LMoY is one really good artefact to have. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285149-experiences-with-black-legion-supplement/#findComment-3561590 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valaskjalf Posted January 6, 2014 Author Share Posted January 6, 2014 It is the same Sunburst psychic power from the Pyromancy Discipline, just that we can up the range to 12/18 inches. There is no T test. If you are in range of the nova, then suffer 2D6 S4 auto hits, make saves, and then do the I check to avoid the Blind effect. It LMoY is one really good artefact to have. Yeah that really does sound good, since the guys passing their armour saves can still be blinded - nice double effect I will definitely be using that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285149-experiences-with-black-legion-supplement/#findComment-3561631 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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