2500 pts Iron Hands

[coloroutofspace]

All hail!

 

Finally, after much deliberation since the release of HH: Massacre, I
managed to create an IH list - a vision that I had in my mind since
reading the book for the first time. I'd appreciate any and all
comments.

 

The list revolves around the theme of IH armoured reserves, and it
contains, among other tanks, 2 Malcadors as well as 2 Primaris
Lightnings - that is almost non-negotiable as I already own 2 Lightnings
and planning to get the Malcadors. I imagine an armoured company
calling in air support to clear the way. As for the troops, I considered
putting Tacticals into mehtal bawkses, but as for now the plan is to
hold whatever 2 objectives are closest with my footsloggers, and to just
wipe out enemy troops with battlecannons, plasma, phosphex, etc. So
here it is:

 

Spearhead-Centurion Castrmen Orth [80 pts] attached to the Sicarian

2 x Tactical Squad (20 members, Vexila) [520 pts]

Sicarian (Lascannon sponsons) [175 pts]

Sicarian Venator [190 pts]

Predator Squadron (3 Predator Executioners, Dozer blades, Combi-bolters) [360 pts]

2 x Legion Malcador (one with a Demolisher cannon) [625 pts]

2 x Primaris Lightnings (Kraken missiles, Phosphex bomb cluster) [370 pts]

Contemptor Mortis Dread (Kheres) [180 pts]

 

I believe I've got all corners covered...

[Moonstalker]

I dunno if I'd put Orth on the Sicaran at this points level. That vehicle is going to be priority target number one, and at 2500 points a 3 hull point 13/12/12 vehicle with that amount of damage output is going to be a smoking wreck on turn 1. Personally, I'd probably pimp out one of the Malcadors for him. I think the Contemptor Mortis might be a little superfluous with the amount of armor you already have and the air wing you've brought, and ensuring your tactical squads can stick around long enough to hold objectives in the end turns might require the help of some apothecaries.

 

 

Castrman Orth

 

2 Apothecaries

 

2x 19 man tactical squad w/vexilla

 

3x Predators with Executioner Cannons, combi-bolter, and dozer blade

 

Sicaran Venator

 

Sicaran w/Lascannon Sponsons

 

2x Primaris Lightnings w/Kraken Missiles, Phosphex bombs

 

Malcador w/Demolisher Cannon, Lascannon Sponsons, Flare Shield, Armored Ceramite (Castrman here)

 

Malcador w/Space Marine Crew, Autocannon Sponsons

 

 

One Malcador with all the trimmings, BS5, and tank hunters. Armored Ceramite so you don't have to be too afraid of getting close to use that demolisher cannon, flare shield to keep it alive while you opponent (perhaps mistakenly) tries to focus it down while ignoring softer, deadlier targets. One with a battlecannon, 3 autocannons, and space marine crew for laying down pie plates and ripping up light/medium vehicles.

 

But as I've mentioned before, I think a single Fellblade is better than two Malcadors, and seeing Orth in one would be awesome.

[exsanguis]

Castaman would do pretty well in a Venator. Make those shots count!

[coloroutofspace]

@ kitwulfen: the problem is that at 2500 pts, I can only spend 625 pts on Lords of War, and that means no fancy options for the two Malcadors. And the reason, I'd rather take 2 almost barebones instead of one pimped out is, that there are two fast super-heavy targets for the enemy. If I had the means to get a Fellblade, I would field it at 2500 pts, but I wouldn't be able to use it in 2000 pts games, and having 2 Malcadors, I can field one or two, depending on the size of the game.

 

About the Mortis though... It may seem a little out of place, but it would keep company with two big tactical units. And it isn't only an anti-air platform, I believe it can deal with vehicles on the ground and infantry as well. I could drop it in favour of something else, but perhaps not the apothecaries - the Tactical squads have Inviolate armour, and can can go to ground if needed, just to stay on board.

 

As to Orth - it says in the fluff that he commanded a Fellblade, and after it was destroyed, a Sicarian :) He would be wasted if put into a Venator - Venator's weapon is prette capable without the Tank Hunter upgrade. But when put into a regular Sicarian: Lascannon sponsons firing at BS5 and Accelerator cannon benefiting from Tank Hunter seems like a good match. If I were the enemy, I'd have a hard time picking the priority targets from among the tanks on the ground...

[Moonstalker]

You are definitely correct about the points limit on the Lord of War slot, that one slipped my mind.  I think that, however, reinforces the need for the Fellblade at 2500 points.  Stock Malcadors just aren't very scary.  You've got 12 HP worth of superheavy, which is nice, but their weapon load out is no better than 2 stock LRBTs and a LR Demolisher.  The mixture of high HP and relatively low damage output makes them kind of safe to ignore.  Don't get me wrong, they'll definitely knock big holes in infantry squads, but they're going to struggle against any real armor (anything with a Flare Shield is going to laugh them off, and the battle cannons can only glance AV14 in the first place).  But that's the kind of acceptable losses your opponent could eat over a couple turns while dealing with the threats to their own vehicles.

 

I think the rest of your list is pretty solid (aside from my reservations about the survivability of your infantry), there's some built in redundancy and a wide array of threats, but stock Malcadors just don't pull their weight.

[coloroutofspace]

Hmm... You're right, compared to the Malcadors, a Fellblade would not be something one can ignore. I might try building a list with a Fellblade, but right now just for fun (in a few months maybe I'll be able to get it from FW anyway). I'll probably post a separate entry for that.

 

But speaking of super-heavies, what about other choices instead of a Fellblade? There's a picture of an Emperors Children Stormblade in Massacre, so a Stormblade of a Shadowsword could be worth considering. The problem is, I don't know where to find the rules for those. Advice, please? :) I remember there were rules for the Stormblade (but not for the Shadowsword) in IA: Apocalypse 2nd ed...

 

As to the original list, I'm not sure if I've got enough anti-tank at this level. Sure, Kraken missiles kick ass, but they're not guaranteed to arrive in time, and other than that there are the two Sicarians. I just wonder, how many turns it would take to get rid of the said Fellblade or such, if I had to face one? With Orth's Warlord Trait I very well ram it with my fast tanks, but it ain't the best way to deal with a super-heavy :)

[Moonstalker]

Well, the most recent rules for the Shadowsword would be in Escalation, but I think the ones in Apocalypse (the GW book, not IA) are the same.  There are rules for the Stormblade on the forgeworld website, but I do not know if they are the most up-to-date.

 

I think the amount of anti-tank you've got is pretty good, especially with a Fellblade instead of the Malcadors, so I wouldn't worry too much about that.  It's more that your anti-tank is fragile, in a way, at this points level.  For all their damage output, those Sicarans aren't any harder to kill from the front than a predator is.  That makes it relatively safe to ignore the Malcadors while your opponent focuses on the easier pickings.  He might also choose to ignore a Fellblade while he focuses on your smaller tanks, but the Fellblade will exact a higher price from him for that.  The Lightnings are also fragile in... just about every way.  If you don't take out the enemy AA on turn one, they could be in real trouble.

 

It might end up being the other way around, though.  If you're facing pure infantry, what does your opponent care about a Venator?  A tank that will kill 1, maybe 2 models a turn?  He's going to be interested in killing your Malcadors and Predators so you're not dropping pie plates on him.

[Siebold]

I like the whole idea of crushing the enemy underneath your treads.

I just would have brought an Iron Father to the game to maybe repair stuff, but that might be ineffective.

[coloroutofspace]

I'm back with an updated list, which I managed to playtest twice against Salamanders. It looks like this:

 

 

Spearhead-Centurion Castrmen Orth [80 pts] attached to the Shadowsword

 

2 x Tactical Squad (20 members, Nuncio-Vox) [520 pts]

 

Shadowsword [455 pts]

Sicarian Venator [190 pts]

Predator Squadron (3 Predator Executioners, Dozer blades, Combi-bolters) [360 pts]

 

Whirlwind Scorpius [115 pts]

 

2 x Primaris Lightnings (one with 2 Kraken, 4 Sunfury missiles, second with 2 Kraken, 2 Sunfury) [365 pts]

Contemptor Mortis Dread (Kheres) [180 pts]

 

Rapier Battery (2 Rapier Laser Destroyers) [110 pts]

 

Rapier Battery (2 Quad Mortars) [120 pts]

 

 

Now, my thoughts. First, the Venator- it's just amazing, both games it destroyed twice it's worth in points. I admit, the range could be better, but when it shoots, it kills. I wouldn't change it for a regular Sicarian for Heresy games at least. There's bound to be a Contemptor, Land Raider or something similar worth shooting at.

Second, the 3-vehicle Predator Executioner squadron. The wallet hurts... But then again, I knew from the very beginning, I'll be fielding those, no matter what, the squadron looks magnificent on the table and the look on your opponent's face is priceless :D Game-wise, they're a scare. When they shoot, they effectively remove 250 plus upgrades worth of a Tactical Squad, but it only happened once. Truth be told, they didn't do that much damage, I even struggled to get rid of a 7-man Support Squad after I lost one Predator to Multi-melta fire. But that's not the point. First, especially with squadron rules I see no way my opponent could get rid of them during the game, so they're always a threat. So second, they're a threat to scoring units, be that Tactical, Support of Terminators, which is the whole point in having them. And third, you don't get any kill-point unless you destroy the whole squadron.

Third, Shadowsword. It's nice when you upgrade it's BS3 to BS5, and that can be done without Orth, by buying Space Marine crew and sponsons with Targeters, but it increases the value of the vehicle to over 500 pts, so you won't be able to do that at 2000 pts. At 2500 it's not an issue, but I still prefer Orth in a vehicle-heavy list. Maybe I was lucky, but the first turn of the first game I destroyed a Spartan that Vulkan and Firedrakes were travelling in, second turn I took 3 wounds off Vulkan. Shooting a Primarch in his face with a D-weapon... I did laugh :)

Fourth, Whirlwind Scorpius and Quad Mortars - the multiple barrage rule is so nice. I wasn't sure about taking those, but they do their job nicely. Quad-mortars would probably do better against IG, Nids or Orks, but I still managed to pin down a Missile Heavy Support, them being Salamanders led by Vulkan and all.

 

Now that I thing about it, an Orbital Assault force would give me the most worry. Or Eldar for that matter.

 

I had to proxy a few units, but I'm planning to get the Shadowsword next and the Quad-mortars. Now if anyone owns the FW Quad-mortar model along with Rapier Laser Destroyer model, please let me know if there's a way to put the mortars on the Rapier carriage. From the pictures it seems the mortars are a bit too wide to fit, but only just. If it requires a lot of work, then I'll just keep using Thunderfire Cannons as proxy and focus on something else.

[Moonstalker]

I'd sell you my Shadowsword (planning to do that to help fund my own Heresy force), but you're across the Atlantic from me.  Shipping charges wouldn't make it a very good deal, when all is said and done.

 

You're probably pretty set on the Shadowsword at this point, but I've been digging on the Macharius Vanquisher lately.  That, the Macharius Omega, Cassius Armored Transport, and Praetor launcher are all some really solid vehicles out of IA2 that you can adopt into a HH force.  Given the power of Destroyer weapons and the additional hull points on a Baneblade chassis, I don't imagine you'll want to swap out for any of them.  Just some food for thought.

 

I'm glad to hear your Predator squadron is working out, it gives me some more faith in my own designs for one.  I think you're running into some of the same issues I had when I messed around with Predator Executioners.  It's either feast or famine with them, you either get your blasts in exactly the right positions and you blast an entire squad off the board in one round, or you scatter off wildly and you do absolutely nothing.

[coloroutofspace]

Tbh, I'd like to get the model unassebled to get a few spare parts and to see if I can make detachable sponsons for future use- I'm planning to get the GW kit, not FW. I don't know if it's a good idea, somehow FW Shadowsword looks better, but my local store does have the GW and I'd really like to get some advice on the idea. I admit I do like the idea of a D-weapon the most at the moment, as I think it's only a matter of time and we'll be seeing more and more of super-heavies in various lists.

 

If money was not an issue, I'd be considering a Stormblade and two of the heavy transports, but right now, after getting all the vehicles I still need, I'll be expanding on the infantry. I want to have an almost all-infantry alternative list with a few Volkites and the addition of Rapiers (originally I wanted to do this with Iron Warriors, but either way it won't be before the release of the next book, so I still have time to decide).

 

About the Executioner - if only it was a Barrage weapon... When there's 3 of those, they perform well, but reduced to 2 they start to perform like a support unit, and you have commit other units to finish the target off. Overall, it's the best Heresy Predator option, the second-best being Destructor with Las sponsons.