depthcharge12 Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Hey guys and occasional gal :) I was thinking of starting a DA heresy army and was wondering your input on which units I should pick for it. I'm not overly concerned with how the units perform as I probably won't play a game for a while, but I'd like a fluffy heresy force feel to it. I will still make a list despite above just for fun. My question is what units do pre and during heresy Dark Angels use? It's been a while since I've read anything helpful that might indicate what they'd use. I'm thinking: Command Squad (circle brotherhood) Cataphractii terminators (heavy armored knights) Jet bikes (proto ravenwing/1st legion armory) Volkite tactical support squad (1st legion armory shenanigans) Divination Librarian (jet bike?) I don't know if I should do tactical or despoiler squads? Oh and I want to throw in my spartan (how do I make it work with knight fluff?) :) I'm thinking of a name too...I hope heathens pops in as he's good with it haha.. I'm thinking about the XVth Cataphracts? I want to do a semi mobile army that hits with a heavy punch, like heavy cavalry. Hence the jet bikes and termies in a spartan If you guys help out and I get off my lazy tushes, this might find its way on the wip section.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285469-dark-angels-what-unitstactics-employed/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disciple of Caliban Sgt Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Well in all the fluffy book descriptions they have some of the oldest technology so stuff that maybe considered rare is probably a good bet and in Forgotten Empire there is the description of our units doing perfect drill with marching etc. So I would assume mostly basic stuff with some very very "old" weapons and armor. Also in the book there is a description of the six different DA "wings." It's described as since they were the First Legion and they didn't have any other Legions to support initially they had the different "wings" to be specialists in all the areas of warfare. Deathwing, Ravenwing, Stormwing.......probably some sort of siegewing etc. Not sure that helps and I don't know about any kinds of 30K units so not an expert in anyway of those but fluff wise that should help. DoC Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285469-dark-angels-what-unitstactics-employed/#findComment-3566157 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheForgottenAngel Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 I'm building my tactical squads with additional CCW 20 men strong. Sergeants with power swords and artifice armor. I have 6 jetbikes with multimeltas for fat and tough anti tank. 2 10men cataphractii with 2X autocannons fire for slogging/objective holding. My praetor(luther) in artificer, iron halo, archaetech pistol and MC paragon blade with command squad with 2 axes, rest swords riding in something (not sure yet), Moritat cypher with artificer armor Volkite serpenta and plasma pistol running solo for giggles. Might add in a contemptor or 2 squads of legion outriders with plasma. That's as far as I've gotten. Debating my heavy support at the moment. This force is prior to Luther's reassignment to Caliban. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285469-dark-angels-what-unitstactics-employed/#findComment-3566221 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy1391 Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Heck you could use the dark angels bike command squad models for your outriders if you wanted, all Corvus armor and the plasma talons fit the bill for twin linked plasma guns. For pre heresy dark angels I envision lots of mark 2 and 3 armor. And lots of volkite weaponry since it states that before bolters were mass produced the volkite weapons were standard issue. Newer Caliban born marines I could see in mark 4 armor with robes and other "classic" dark angels stuff. Being as they were the first legion I would say have your pick of the litter with how you want to equip them! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285469-dark-angels-what-unitstactics-employed/#findComment-3566440 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted January 11, 2014 Author Share Posted January 11, 2014 @disciple Thanks for the stuff on them during the heresy. I haven't gotten a chance to read UE, but I will try! Do you know what each wing specializes in before the end of the heresy? Is it different? @Weber From the Dark angel himself ;) thanks bud I was going to do some footslogger with heavy termies but decided a mobile squad of 10 in a Spartan was the way to go! I am just using what I previously put on the squad: 1 reaper auto cannon , lightning claw 1 plasma blaster, power maul 1 chain fist, combi bolter Twin lightning claws 6 power axe with combi bolters Just a good healthy mix of stuff. How did you paint your heresy jet bike? I want to paint my guys black with cream robes and red insignias but the black is the hardest part because I'm not good at highlighting. What kind of grey should I use? @ Jeremy Two great minds think alike ;) I was going to try to stay strictly forgeworld but use some of the upgrade sprues to robe some of the guys. I was going to do 6 jet bikes with two plasma cannons, failing that, volkites. I was for sure going to use my 10 man tactical support volkites for some nastiness. I will mainly do mkII and mkIII armor, I don't know how I feel about dark angels in mkIV, I really love the armor, but feel that it's off for them. Maybe I'll do mixed squads for that. I'll write a list up soon and post it later today for sure. How do you guys feel about including a sicaran in the army? Same thing for destroyers? I want to do a mortar but hid him in a squad. Do you thing that the Lions pragmatism would allow for destroyers? I want my force to be like heavy cavalry, or heavy dismounted infantry. Esoteric weapons like plasma and volkites for sure. Any suggestion for names? I like the Cataphracts to represent the middle age heavy cavalry :D is there a suggested number? Like the XVth? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285469-dark-angels-what-unitstactics-employed/#findComment-3566555 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheForgottenAngel Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Just keep this in mind when making a Dark Angel list. The Lion was a tactical genius and a master at combined arms. They also had access to everything the Imperium had to offer. With is in mind and the notion of wings, Dark Angels are able to be completely self-reliant. Have 2 answers for everything ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285469-dark-angels-what-unitstactics-employed/#findComment-3566668 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KJB Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 As long as you make you terminators look like this guy has... http://rebelsgrotto.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/from-chopping-broard-cataphractii.html I'm considering ordering the kits to make my own - awesome Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285469-dark-angels-what-unitstactics-employed/#findComment-3566701 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted January 12, 2014 Author Share Posted January 12, 2014 As long as you make you terminators look like this guy has... http://rebelsgrotto.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/from-chopping-broard-cataphractii.html I'm considering ordering the kits to make my own - awesome Dayum son! Just keep this in mind when making a Dark Angel list. The Lion was a tactical genius and a master at combined arms. They also had access to everything the Imperium had to offer. With is in mind and the notion of wings, Dark Angels are able to be completely self-reliant. Have 2 answers for everything ;) Oh don't worry, there will be tactical genius everywhere ;) Any idea when we are getting those mkIII command squad guys? I was going to make a command squad out of them...especially that arrogant sword drawing guy To all brothers...where should I base my marines out of? Should I do Terrans from Europa or something else? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285469-dark-angels-what-unitstactics-employed/#findComment-3566765 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted January 13, 2014 Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 2nd Retribution Fleet, XVth Cataphracts +++Spectemur Agendo+++ +XVth Cataphracts unit composition (2000 pts)+ HQ Ridemaster (165) pride of the legion -paragon blade, plasma pistol, digi lasers, refractor field Leudes (command squad - 220) -5 members, 4 PWs, PF, 5 combat shields Elites Ancient/contemptor (185) -plasma cannon Apothecary (45) Troops 10 cataphractii terminators (385) - RA and LC, TLC, PB and PW, CF and CB, 6 PWs and CBs 10 vets outflank (310) -2 ML, Sgt with AA and PW, 2 PW, 2 volkite serpentas, vexilla 10 tac support (220) -10 volkite calivers Fast attack 3 Jetbikes (165) - plasma cannon, 3 melta bombs Heavy support Spartan "Iron Steed" (320) Total - 2000 pts This is my idea for my WIP :) I still need to come up with names for most of my guys and hopefully I will start getting stuff up on the b and c I'm doing a medieval heavy dismounted/mounted cavalry unit with a theme of frank, Germanic, Holy Roman Empire and medieval knight sounding army with those motifs. I want my army to be led by another old fart who fought in the unification and Sol wars in the 1st legion, but was of the conquered Franc area and was brought into the legion after the Emperor conquered that area. My detachment is led by him in a retribution fleet assembled by Lion El'Johnson himself (but he is sadly not part of the group as he's chasing those no good NLs) to pursue the Iron warriors after he finds out that the Dimat siege weapons are used against the loyalists. The Cataphracts motto, "Spectemur Agendo" means: Let us be judged by our actions. Which I find very fitting to say the least ;) What do u guys think so far? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285469-dark-angels-what-unitstactics-employed/#findComment-3567469 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheForgottenAngel Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 One thing that looks really good is using MkIII helmets but using Ravenwing wibged swords(clip offthe sword) too make winged helmets ;) That list looks like fun but while plasma may be perceived as the dark angels calling card, it's more archaeotech weaponry. I worry about a plasma cannon on a jetbike, personally I think a multimelta is a better option and a powerfist or thunderhammer on the sergeant(split PF and PC on different bikes). At 2k points you're really low on troops. The vets need a durable way to get into the action (half ranged missile launchers with suspensor webs) as you've geared them for assault and ranged, pick one and run with it. Splitting up the unit for two roles isn't efficient. The back story is really intriguing and I like it, very plausible. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285469-dark-angels-what-unitstactics-employed/#findComment-3567648 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostMalone Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 I'd say drop the plasma, give the contemptor a conversion beamer Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285469-dark-angels-what-unitstactics-employed/#findComment-3567669 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheForgottenAngel Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Ew conversion beamers....I hate that weapon system. Now in apocalypse it has a place due to larger tables Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285469-dark-angels-what-unitstactics-employed/#findComment-3567760 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostMalone Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 I only play on large terrain filled boards :P City scapes with burnt out ruins and kill zones That's a fight Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285469-dark-angels-what-unitstactics-employed/#findComment-3567780 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandMagnus Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 I remember in descent of angels they describe the knights of Caliban fighting among eachother using a kind of chainswords/swords and arcane pistols. Since reading that I have often felt that a mix of tacticals and despoilers in addition to bike squads is the perfect example of Caliban born DA tactics. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285469-dark-angels-what-unitstactics-employed/#findComment-3568004 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheForgottenAngel Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Well descent of angels was prior to the emperor for the most part. The siege of the knights lupus was with their old ancient power armor and archaeotech weaponry. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285469-dark-angels-what-unitstactics-employed/#findComment-3568022 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandMagnus Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 I know, but I can still imagine some tradition was left in the first knights. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285469-dark-angels-what-unitstactics-employed/#findComment-3568043 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted January 13, 2014 Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 I would love to put that archeotech pistol on a librarian like Zahariel to represent the rotary barreled pistol the one awesome dude gave him. I will definitely put more tactical squads in and so forth, but I don't have all the necessary funds to go all out. So my force represents what the fluff in UE said they were: long term veterans suited to all range of warfare because they had no support or specialists. @Weber I put out flank on my vets so they can use their missile launchers on side armor (I'm starting to see a lot of sicarans in lists nowadays) and I believe heir side armor is 11 so the serpentas can glance em :) I would do meltas but I wanted to use my 5 man missile squad I had leftover and HH armies have armored ceramite pop up everywhere Thanks for the tip on the winged helms ;) I've seen worthy paintings rendition with those and they are awesome! I agree that archeotech is more up DAs alley, I was thinking of running a volkite culverin but I already have 10 calivers camping an objective and I need a reliable way to take down terminator armor. My army is built around the idea of always charging forward (except for the support squad, which in fluff are just a suppression team so everyone can plow into the ranks of the enemy like an honest charge) I can't stand sitting and shooting with my whole army. Thanks again for all the suggestions and comments. Keep em coming!!! Any ideas for names or fluff? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285469-dark-angels-what-unitstactics-employed/#findComment-3568047 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheForgottenAngel Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Oh totally I was just thinking in my opinion tactical marines with additional close combat weapons is how I see them ;) A mix of despoilers and tactical marines is a totally viable option! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285469-dark-angels-what-unitstactics-employed/#findComment-3568048 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted January 13, 2014 Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 I will probably get a sicaran too as a mobile heavy weapons platform to support the charge :) I loves the French cavalry before during and after the Hundred Years' War as they were quite feared by many european states. I even like the heroic and bloody story of Agincourt where they get stuck in the mud and the English longbow men massacre them lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285469-dark-angels-what-unitstactics-employed/#findComment-3568052 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheForgottenAngel Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Well if you love cavalry, the ravenwing was around back then! Have you thought of some legion outriders? I swear by them with plasma! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285469-dark-angels-what-unitstactics-employed/#findComment-3568073 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted January 13, 2014 Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 Well if you love cavalry, the ravenwing was around back then! Have you thought of some legion outriders? I swear by them with plasma! I was so torn between them and the Jetbikes :/ I picked the Jetbikes for the fact that they look smexy and have the archeotech feel to them. I would've done a command squad on Jetbikes and a squad of legion outriders but the mkIII command squad is coming out and I chose that over it. I wish the command squad could take plasma guns on their bikes..... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285469-dark-angels-what-unitstactics-employed/#findComment-3568080 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted January 13, 2014 Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 I might be able to be swayed to pick outriders though.... "If I had a million dollars..." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285469-dark-angels-what-unitstactics-employed/#findComment-3568082 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheForgottenAngel Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Yes it's rather sad the studying doesn't allow it. I've tested the legion command squad on jetbikes and a praetor built for close combat. It's brutal and I actually retired it from lists because it was just too damn mean!! My army list right now is in development but it will be focus on multiple threats along with a vanguard of fast attack. Once we figure out the special units for Dark Angels it'll surely put out on it is head. For now I HIGHLY recommend buying the essentials, troops, terminators, armor, etc. That way you can plug in the special units into an existing force without too many issues. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285469-dark-angels-what-unitstactics-employed/#findComment-3568083 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted January 13, 2014 Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 I really hope the Dark angels get cool fluffy special rules and I can't fathom what their rite of war will be. I hope it's more than just here's some stubborn for your guys, but forgeworld has yet to let me down (except for the world eaters, but everyone's gotten an earful of that already :P ) It would be cool to get a special bodyguard/command squad and maybe even a squad of unique archeotech weapons too... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285469-dark-angels-what-unitstactics-employed/#findComment-3568089 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheForgottenAngel Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Stubborn tactical marines in HH would be brutal. I'd love that! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285469-dark-angels-what-unitstactics-employed/#findComment-3568100 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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