Tenebris Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 As per title, is the Alpha Legion still loyal to the Emperor? Most of us who play Chaos and read about it know about the Cabal and the agenda of the Alpha Legion. We also know that the primarchs broke with the Cabal and flushed one of their xeno agents in the void, and we also know that in the case of the Alpha Legion... well we speak of the Alpha Legion after-all. I also point out that you cannot expect to lure Chaos for Chaos is deceit in person, hence regardless of how you use Chaos, worship Chaos or hate Chaos, Chaos is always a step ahead, with entities so ancient that have seen and perpetuated betrayals untold. It is hubris to think that you can manipulate Chaos, or it is still a sense of loyalty that drives the Alpha Legion? In the end I expect that the ultimate answer to this question will never be given to us by BL or GW but in the end we speculate, is what fans do best, we speculate and discuss. So speculate and discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Short answer: No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Short anwser no . Long anwser . Partly . The end game plan of emps was puting humans on a higher level of evolution . Making them something like ultra eldar , silencing the warp and removing the chaos treat as a whole . Now AL [at least at the start of the heresy and we are talking legion here not , singular members of it] had a bit of same plan . Remove the chaos problem . The difference is Emps had some sort of a plan what happens to humans post the chaos loses time . AL want to end the human race , as it is the biggest source of chaos power . Killing your own race is in general not seen as being loyal , even if it is done for some sort of idea viewed as something greater . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Skull Mask Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 I think the Legion and their goals became so twisted over the milennia that it doesn't really matter what some of them think why they are doing what and to what ultimate outcome. The effective outcome ist that they forward the cause of chaos. What happened to the Alpha Legion is how I imagine truly tzeenchian manipulation works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 What ISM said, especially for the Alpha Legion. Most members of the Alpha Legion don't even know they're in the Alpha Legion, and even those that do probably don't know what they're fighting for anymore. I doubt the Legion is coherent enough after 10k years of that kind of warfare to even have a singular goal they're still working towards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Now that I have some more time I can answer a bit more than a single word, hehe As the posters above have stated, even if the Alpha Legion once was for the Emperor, 10k years later much have changed. For starters, the Alpha Legion wasen't too optimistic about the big E:s plan (or what they knew of it at least) and was sceptical about what the crusade would bring to mankind. Then they got the deal from the cabal, in which neither option was for "The Emperor", or even humanity. Either they doomed mankind to snuff out chaos, or they let chaos snuff out mankind. In any case humanity was doomed... As we all know they scrapped that plan, and went for a third option, helping both and neither. Now, 10k years later, there would still be parts of the legion who knows what it's all about, the ones that were there, the ones that were "in the know"...but a lot of things can happen during 10k years. Cell leaders can get killed before handing over the whole true plan to the next in line, cells can get corrupted, cells can get lost in time and space, they can get killed, they can turn into spawns, the leaders can turn into daemon princes, and so on. So, no, they are not for the Emperor, and they never were since the cabal was introduced in their lives... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 No, they are not loyal. They wanted to end chaos/save mankind, but they did so by defying the Emperor. Which is traitorous. Even if you asked instead: "Are they loyal to the imperium?" The answer would still be no, as they actively fight against the imperium. If you asked "Are they loyal to the Chaos Gods?" Then the answer would be: Yes, no, and maybe, all at once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forté Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 No one truly knows and they ain't saying. And has anyone seen one lately...or was it someone claiming to be AL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 No one truly knows and they ain't saying. And has anyone seen one lately...or was it someone claiming to be AL? Nobody knows... ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight of the Raven Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 In the old Index Astartes, they joined Horus to prove the validity of their way of fighting to all their detractors - to prove it was the best of all ways, even. They chose him instead of the Emperor because he was the only one to praise Alpharius. In an alternate universe where the only change is Horus remained loyal, they'd have stayed loyal as well. Or at least as loyal as an Alpha Legionnaire can be. Nowadays, we might not get the answer before the end of the heresy; if we get any definitive answer at all. That said, when the treason begins, they're not loyal to the Emperor, the Imperium or humanity. Nor to Horus, the cause of the traitors or Chaos. And apparently only half loyal to the Cabal. You could argue they're loyal to the rest of the galaxy, sacrificing their own species to wipe out Chaos. They're certainly loyal against the Ruinous Powers. But I don't see them loyal to anyone but themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 In light of "The Serpent Beneath" I think the Alpha Legion isn't even loyal to the Alpha Legion anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Heinrich Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 I really like how they've evolved the fluff for the Alpha Legion, it went from everyone thinking they were secretly on the side of the Emperor to now questioning everything. My buddy and I were discussing this the other day, basically chaos affects all the legions differently, most are obvious, Emperor's Children devolve into greater pursuits of perfection, World Eaters go off the deep end, Death Guard become unstoppable zombies, Night Lords go full tilt sadistic, but with the Alpha Legion you see that all of the scheming and plotting they did before the fall, has now become corrupted to where they are probably more devoted servants of Tzeentch than the Thousand Sons. They are at the point where there are so many schemes within schemes that they are just plotting for plotting's sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 At first when Be'lakor came out, I thought that he would most likely like the Alpha Legion since they are schemers just like him. But soon enough I realised that he wouldn't trust them at all, since they scheme for scheming's sake. As the World Eaters, they are off the far end...but in another way. It's maximum paranoia coupled with insane trust in each other. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Alpha Legionnaires would be completely mad every single one of them. Absolutely brilliant and tactical, but mad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon2027 Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 I've always thought that no matter their motive, they are furthering the cause of chaos (even if they are doing so to destroy chaos), so attract the gods attention, and become corrupted. Others probably choose the corruption openly. The thing with chaos is that it takes you over, twists you, whatever your motive was, once it's inside you, it controls you, no matter what you believe. I think they are the ultimate playthings of Tzeentch. They wished to destroy him by play his game, now they serve him without even realising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karthak Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Most have probably fallen, but we're talking about an entire Legion here, so it seems quite reasonable to me to have at least a few companies here and there who are still closet loyalists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Alpharius is the Emperor, at least the modern day Emperor, the one who is stuck on the Golden throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon2027 Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Most have probably fallen, but we're talking about an entire Legion here, so it seems quite reasonable to me to have at least a few companies here and there who are still closet loyalists. True, there probably are, but any loyalties would not be to what the Imperium is in the 40k, they probably still fight for what it stood for during the GC. And by attacking the current imperium, even if they see themselves as loyal, they are furthering the cause of chaos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Most have probably fallen, but we're talking about an entire Legion here, so it seems quite reasonable to me to have at least a few companies here and there who are still closet loyalists. True, there probably are, but any loyalties would not be to what the Imperium is in the 40k, they probably still fight for what it stood for during the GC. And by attacking the current imperium, even if they see themselves as loyal, they are furthering the cause of chaos. Are they? Maybe the situation right now is what Chaos wants. People say Chaos was defeated at the end of the HH. However, I think the chaos god won. If the Emperor had won the GC would have continued and Chaos may have been defeated. If Horus had won, chaos may have burned itself out (or humanity may have destroyed itself). Right now humanity is in a stalemate. Bloody war is no major gains or either side. War and conflict feed the Chaos gods. We don't know the aims of the Alpha Legion, but if they could actually destroy the Imperium... They might actually harm the Chaos gods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Like the destruction of the eldar's galaxy spanning empire harmed Slaanesh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Like the destruction of the eldar's galaxy spanning empire harmed Slaanesh? Humans existed to support Slaanesh, the strength that the Eldar was only needed to Birth Slaanesh. If the Eldar Empire still existed in its old form today (in 40k) Slaanesh would be far more powerful. As it is... Slaanesh is fairly weak. But Slaanesh is weaker now than it was at its birth... So you could consider that harm, if you so wished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 True . If we could only somehow make a psy type of weapon on a galactic scale that could blow up the minds of every human , we could make the warp calm again[or at least much calmer] . But we would need something very powerful to pull it of and a conduit linked to all humans , which imo would be rather hard to find , because aside for the golden throne and emps , there is nothing anywhere near it . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redtoof Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Alpha legion are scattered around the galaxy into distrusting factions of corrupt paranoid psychopaths, with no long term plan or unified objectives. They have fallen completely to chaos, becoming mere playthings to the gods, with no capability of loyalty to anyone, especially each other. Or at least, that's what we want you to think... ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveNYC Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 I'll go with the Simpson's quote: "Long answer 'yes with an if', short answer 'no with a but'." There's also the minor issue that what they think was the Emperor's goal was actually the Emperor's goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon2027 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Most have probably fallen, but we're talking about an entire Legion here, so it seems quite reasonable to me to have at least a few companies here and there who are still closet loyalists. True, there probably are, but any loyalties would not be to what the Imperium is in the 40k, they probably still fight for what it stood for during the GC. And by attacking the current imperium, even if they see themselves as loyal, they are furthering the cause of chaos. Are they? Maybe the situation right now is what Chaos wants. People say Chaos was defeated at the end of the HH. However, I think the chaos god won. If the Emperor had won the GC would have continued and Chaos may have been defeated. If Horus had won, chaos may have burned itself out (or humanity may have destroyed itself). Right now humanity is in a stalemate. Bloody war is no major gains or either side. War and conflict feed the Chaos gods. We don't know the aims of the Alpha Legion, but if they could actually destroy the Imperium... They might actually harm the Chaos gods. Every time they bring rebellion and anarchy to the imperium they bring power to chaos. At the most basic point, even of they are working against chaos, they are basically continuing Tzeentch cycle of foiling himself. He doesn't want the gods( including himself) to win as he know what will happen. So the AL are the perfect pets. Anyway once they figure out how to corrupt the Tau they can munch on humanity as much as they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveNYC Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Even if Chaos manages to corrupt the Tau the Tau don't have a particularly strong link to the warp. They wouldn't be feeding Chaos as much as Humanity does, just as Humanity's influence on the warp is weak sauce compared to the Eldar. Humanity is a perfect species to feed the Dark Gods. Corruptible, they have a variety of interests (unlike the Orks), and they have a strong enough link to the warp to feed the Gods, but not as strong as the Eldar (and without the obsessiveness) that they are unlikely to burn themselves out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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