Emperor's Furor Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 And it's a pain because I really like Saul Tarvitz, he's probably my favourite stand alone character in the series, the epitome of loyalty to both your Emperor and your comrades. However everything else that's come out afterward his heroic stand has really made it difficult for me to collect a Emperor's Children army. I mean they really are degenerates now and even a brief comment made in a flash back between the Khan and Fulgrim really shows how weak and pathetic he was even before their fall to Slaanesh. I love their colour scheme, but what really lets them down is how readily they fell to chaos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Lucian Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 That's really the point of the EC legion, to despise them. They were something to aspire to, now they are just degenerates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adra'Melek Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Then do loyalists :) Â I also dislike Emperor's Children. But I grew up under the influence of Khorne (Realms of Chaos) and it was hammered home that Slaanesh was bad. This was projected onto the EC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultramarine vet Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 The Emperor's Children are nothing but cowards. There have been several accounts where they have slaughtered civilians rather than fight the loyalists. It really is pathetic. I also liked Tarvitz. Very good Space Marine, and an exemplar of what every Space Marine should be. But the Emperor's Children of now are disgusting! I'll take followers of Khorne over them anyday and twice on Sunday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilofix Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 And it's a pain because I really like Saul Tarvitz, he's probably my favourite stand alone character in the series, the epitome of loyalty to both your Emperor and your comrades. However everything else that's come out afterward his heroic stand has really made it difficult for me to collect a Emperor's Children army. I mean they really are degenerates now and even a brief comment made in a flash back between the Khan and Fulgrim really shows how weak and pathetic he was even before their fall to Slaanesh. I love their colour scheme, but what really lets them down is how readily they fell to chaos.  "....they are degenerates now...." & "....love their color scheme" - that's exactly the dichotomy of the EC. They are beautiful and degenerates.  It so happens that I like beautiful and degenerate so I main CSM:EC.  I leave the whole loyal and flawless illusion for followers of the false emperor.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctus Cornix Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Probably the same reason why I adore them so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spu00sed Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 I love my EC, though I don't like how quickly they degenerate into a seething mass of nake flesh and drugs. Â Most of them probably weren't even aware of the slaanesh focused devotion of the higher command (even as they high command didn't know they were slaanesh focused). Â I understand Fulgrim's decent, I understand the legions belief of following ones superiors. The whole lets do slaanesh now I don't get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memento Of Prospero Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I actually liked the legion, but I do not like the primarch. Fulgrim never had any redeeming qualities, and the whole bit where he trades weapons with Ferrus Manus was just thrown in for that specific reason. It does not make sense when you think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demus Ragnok Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I actually liked the legion, but I do not like the primarch. Fulgrim never had any redeeming qualities, and the whole bit where he trades weapons with Ferrus Manus was just thrown in for that specific reason. It does not make sense when you think about it. Â How so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sothalor Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I actually liked the legion, but I do not like the primarch. Fulgrim never had any redeeming qualities, and the whole bit where he trades weapons with Ferrus Manus was just thrown in for that specific reason. It does not make sense when you think about it. How so? Because the entirety of his characterization pretty much runs to "Arrogant twat who looks down on everything and everybody around him, self-absorbed ." And then for some reason he's best friends with Ferrus, a blunt, bloody-minded leader whose entire methodology of warfare is at odds with everything Fulgrim esteems. You see very little of their interaction or relationship, just get told "Hey, they like each other so much they made these amazing weapons for each other. Why? Because reasons." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demus Ragnok Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I actually liked the legion, but I do not like the primarch. Fulgrim never had any redeeming qualities, and the whole bit where he trades weapons with Ferrus Manus was just thrown in for that specific reason. It does not make sense when you think about it. How so? Because the entirety of his characterization pretty much runs to "Arrogant twat who looks down on everything and everybody around him, self-absorbed ." And then for some reason he's best friends with Ferrus, a blunt, bloody-minded leader whose entire methodology of warfare is at odds with everything Fulgrim esteems. You see very little of their interaction or relationship, just get told "Hey, they like each other so much they made these amazing weapons for each other. Why? Because reasons." Well they didn't set out to make weapons for each other. It was a contest to see who the best craftsman was. At the end they impressed each other so much that they swapped weapons. They are an odd couple however, I'll admit that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunkyMonkey Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Isn't that the point of the Emperor's Children? Â The most perfect become the most debauched. Â I don't know about you guys, but there's something sublimely gratifying in seeing the most pure and supposedly esteemed being debased into the most vile creatures in existence (excluding the Dark Eldar). Â I feel that whenever you read about the Emperor's Children, you always have to keep in mind what they once were and contrast the two in order to appreciate how deliciously twisted they have become. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 So are Angron and Lorgar, yet it worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memento Of Prospero Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 @ Kol_Seresk  My issue comes from the fact that it is never mentioned elsewhere than Fulgrim has an affinity for crafting, or is even less likely to enjoy getting his hands dirty in the process. It greatly cheapens Ferrus Manus's smithing skills to have someone with no real interest or talent to produce something that was apparently of equal quality.   It is even mentioned at some point that he attempts to sculpt the likeness of his brothers are angrily discards them when criticized. That would suggest that he had never really bothered with the endeavor before.  It also seems to me that Fulgrim would have felt above such menial tasks and look down upon Ferrus Manus for doing the toil of lesser beings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunkyMonkey Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 The thing about Fulgrim is that he's always on the quest for perfection. Â His arrogance is not so much him having a patrician attitude, but is more related to him seeing himself as perfect. Â He can do anything and everything, according to himself. Â So when Ferrus Manus calls Fulgrim a pretty boy that can't forge, Fulgrim can't help but to rise to the challenge and create something to re-assert his perfection, even if it's not something that he'd normally do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memento Of Prospero Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 The thing about Fulgrim is that he's always on the quest for perfection. His arrogance is not so much him having a patrician attitude, but is more related to him seeing himself as perfect. He can do anything and everything, according to himself. So when Ferrus Manus calls Fulgrim a pretty boy that can't forge, Fulgrim can't help but to rise to the challenge and create something to re-assert his perfection, even if it's not something that he'd normally do. I could understand that, if it were a recurring theme. As it stands, it is not so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Isn't it? That is pretty much his thing. All of the book Fulgrim has him doing that, and most of the other books depict him as such, all the way up to Scars' accounting of Ullanor. There is the Laer, the sculptures, his rivalry with Guilliman, his taunting of the Khan, his disdain for being sent to Isstvan V, his intent to sacrifice a brother Primarch even when unnecessary for the ritual. Â Fulgrim is the Primarch of challenge accepted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 @ Kol_Seresk  My issue comes from the fact that it is never mentioned elsewhere than Fulgrim has an affinity for crafting, or is even less likely to enjoy getting his hands dirty in the process. It greatly cheapens Ferrus Manus's smithing skills to have someone with no real interest or talent to produce something that was apparently of equal quality.   It is even mentioned at some point that he attempts to sculpt the likeness of his brothers are angrily discards them when criticized. That would suggest that he had never really bothered with the endeavor before.  It also seems to me that Fulgrim would have felt above such menial tasks and look down upon Ferrus Manus for doing the toil of lesser beings. Actually, in the same novel Fulgrim's quarters are shown to be strewn about with marble carvings and paintings that he had made himself. The Emperor's Children and Fulgrim believed that a warrior must be capable of producing art as well as battle, much like the Blood Angels and White Scars. The difference was that the EC did it "to be perfect in all things."  That was what the point was supposed to be. That even the most different of brothers could become the closest over something as simple as a passion for creating beauty, even if the motives were different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adra'Melek Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Regarding Fulgrim crafting, I thought that came from Chemos where he made loads of technical improvements that improved the efficiency of production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I don't like the EC. That's why I like them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctus Cornix Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I don't like the EC. That's why I like them. Â This. Right here. Explains it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Debonair Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 And then for some reason he's best friends with Ferrus, a blunt, bloody-minded leader whose entire methodology of warfare is at odds with everything Fulgrim esteems. You see very little of their interaction or relationship, just get told "Hey, they like each other so much they made these amazing weapons for each other. Why? Because reasons."  I dunno, I thought Fulgrim and Ferrus had somewhat similar ideologies. Fulgrim arguably sought perfection through trial and improvement, and Ferrus arguably sought perfection in his own way by seeking to eliminate weakness.  That's just my take on it, rather than anything I've read elsewhere. It's not exactly the most obvious common ground, but it might well have been enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demus Ragnok Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Â Â And then for some reason he's best friends with Ferrus, a blunt, bloody-minded leader whose entire methodology of warfare is at odds with everything Fulgrim esteems. You see very little of their interaction or relationship, just get told "Hey, they like each other so much they made these amazing weapons for each other. Why? Because reasons." I dunno, I thought Fulgrim and Ferrus had somewhat similar ideologies. Fulgrim arguably sought perfection through trial and improvement, and Ferrus arguably sought perfection in his own way by seeking to eliminate weakness. Â That's just my take on it, rather than anything I've read elsewhere. It's not exactly the most obvious common ground, but it might well have been enough. Ace I think you are on to something with this idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassWave Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I've had the same thought as Ace before. Even when the IH and the EC become mortal enemies, they are very alike in that they both modify their bodies to better themselves (to the point where they become monsters), they look down on everyone, and they do not place any value in human lives. And yet some how iron hands are good guys... Â I love pre heresy EC. They look elegant, purple is my favorite color, and I like the idea of trying to attain perfection. They even have dubstep guns which I find hilariously awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Debonair Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I've had the same thought as Ace before. Even when the IH and the EC become mortal enemies, they are very alike in that they both modify their bodies to better themselves (to the point where they become monsters), they look down on everyone, and they do not place any value in human lives. And yet some how iron hands are good guys... I love pre heresy EC. They look elegant, purple is my favorite color, and I like the idea of trying to attain perfection. They even have dubstep guns which I find hilariously awesome. And suddenly I can't look at Noise Marines the same way ever again. And, perhaps appropriately, I don't know if I should laugh or cry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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